Soprano Tone Quality?

[mstrick96]

I am learning to play the soprano, and am getting to the point that I am playing reasonably well in tune. I'm about ready to start playing it public with the group I'm in.

I have the Yanagisawa straight soprano and am playing with the bent neck. I'm playing the Yanagisawa plastic mouthpiece that came with the horn (medium tip opening) and a 2 1/2 strength reed.

My question is regarding the tone quality I am getting. It sounds to me more like a smooth, classical sound. There is some of the oboe quality to it, but I am not hearing much.

I like the oboe sound and would like to be able to produce it when I want to. We recently lost our oboeist and it would be fun to do some of the oboe solos. It would also be fun to do some of the jazz sounds that I hear on the radio and on my CDs.

I know that the instrument itself has a lot to do with the sound quality, but what would I need to do to get more of the oboe sound? What type of mouthpiece/ reed combination would work? Will a spoiler such as in the Runyon mouthpieces help? (Paul Coats has recommended the Runyon to me in the past.)

Any advice?

Mike S

[pknight]

The Yamaha 4C mouthpiece that came with my Antigua 590 seemed to promote the oboe sound. I switched to a Selmer S-80 D and haven't used the 4C since.

[Dave Dolson]

mstrick96: It has been my experience that mouthpieces with close tip-openings tend to give me more of an oboe sound than do more open mouthpieces. I prefer the warmer, more saxophone-like tone of open mouthpieces and soft reeds.

Yes, the individual horn will have some effect on your sound, but your mouthpiece set-up and playing concepts have more of an effect, I believe. You may want to explore different mouthpiece/reed combos, tending toward the closer tip-openings and harder reeds, to achieve that nasal, oboe-like sound. DAVE

[mstrick96]

Thanks Pknight and Dave. This is helpful.

I think I'll get tired of the oboe sound all the time, but would like to have that option when I want it.

Mike S

[singlereed]

You need a fairly close facing mouthpiece and firm reed to keep a soprano tone under control across the range. My preference, influenced by several pro classical players, is for a Soloist type (mine is made by Ed Pillinger) or a Selmer S80 in C* with a 3.5 reed. The embouchure and air support are so important - as with any sax, I suppose, one thing that helps me is to remember to keep the sides of the mouth firm against the mouthpiece, and to 'prepare' the embouchure after each breath before starting the next note. If I want to get a wild ethnic or dixie sound, all I need to do is play a 'D' facing with a 2.5 reed - maybe close to what you have - and I'm away! Put a metal Runyon Quantum spoiler on it and I can strip paint. Volume and wildness are easy on a sop, but a controlled even sound is taking a lot of hard work to develop. I would also suggest you don't get too hung up on it yet, work away diligently for a while and then look at the set-up again.

[OnyxSax]

I think more important than setup is having in your mind your tone concept and developing that tonal concept. Despite the soprano's small size, it is a real beast and getting the desired tone takes time and practice. I was playing soprano for close to a decade before I could honestly say I liked my tone on it. I can switch mouthpieces, reeds and horns, but my basic tone remains constant. The biggest difference I have is switching from straight to curved sopranos...but those are really two separate instruments.

[mstrick96]

Thaks for the advice everyone. I'll keep working on it.

I've been working with the soprano for about a year and was not getting the results I wanted at all. I was thinking of trading it in on a tenor and walked into Tony Carere's shop here in Atlanta and talked to him about it. He gave me a lesson and made some corrections and within a week or two, I was much more satisfied with my intonation and the sound I was getting. I've even gotten some complements on my tone since correcting what I was doing.

Anyway, I'm very happy with my soprano now, and I plan to keep on with it. It's only been a couple of months since Tony helped me. I'll stick with what is working for awhile and concentrate on the suggestions you have given me regarding embrochure and tonal concept. Tony said I might want to work up to a #3 reed.

Thanks for your help!

Mike S

[Dave Dolson]

mstrick96: A common falacy is that players must work themselves into harder reeds (some misguided notion that the more developed the embouchure, the harder the reed - as a gauge of progress). It has been my experience that softer reeds play better.

Admittedly, a major factor in reed strength is mouthpiece design (and chops, of course), but the warmest, most pleasing tone to my ears is one with an open piece and softer reed. I'd question someone advising me that I needed to work up to a harder reed. The real issue is developing your chops to support a strong, stable tone regardless of reed strength.

When you get there, you will know it. No harm in trying #3 reeds, but I sure wouldn't knock myself out to go there just because someone told me that. DAVE

[mstrick96]

Thanks. I understand that the general rule is that a more open facing needs a softer reed. But I see lots of exceptions to that "rule" among the pros.

Right now, I'm using the Yani 5 mouthpiece that came with my sax. It has a tip opening of 0.055" and I'm using a Vandoren 2 1/2 reed. However on the setup charts like the one on http://www.du.edu/lamont/Mpce.html I see that players who use similar tip openings on the soprano play anything from a #2 to a #4 reed strength. I saw that Joshua Redman and James Rotter both play Selmer mouthpieces in the .055" to .060" tip opening range and play Vandoren reeds. Redman plays a #2 reed and Rotter plays a #4.

The setup I have is working for me as far as intonation goes. I'm able to play in tune up to the high C (most of the time). Haven't done much work above that. I'm also getting down to the bottom Bb, although I still have a little trouble beginning with the low Bb to C. If I start out higher and go down, I'm OK.

I'm playing trumpet parts because I still have to hear the note to be able to play in tune. I tried tenor sax part last night and when I was the only one on a note, I couldn't tell if I was in tune or not.

I'm so pleased with the progress I'm making right now, that I'm inclined to NOT change anything.

[Dave Dolson]

mstrick96: I sure wouldn't let what-the-pros-use influence my judgement about what I should use. Your last post makes my point - that one pro player uses #2 reeds while another uses #4 on the same mouthpiece.

Many folks make the mistake of thinking that because their favorite player uses a huge Dukoff with a sheet of plywood for a reed, that by using that same set-up, the player will sound the same as the favorite.

It just doesn't work like that. Everyone has a different embouchure and different playing/tonal concepts. That's why it is so important for players (novices and experienced) to experiment on their own to determine what works best for them.

That's why I always argue that mouthpiece recommendations are so useless, unless one wants to buy mouthpiece after mouthpiece based on someone's recommendations - until the buyer finds what works for him. Oh, I guess it doesn't hurt to suggest a certain piece, but my favorite won't be your favorite - and that goes for reeds, too. I'm glad you are sticking with what you like. DAVE

[mstrick96]

Dave,
A problem I was having experimenting on my own was that I was floundering around. Paul Coats' articles and some e-mail correspondence helped me a lot with setting my embrochure and with understanding the differences between the clarinet and sop sax embrochure. U
ntil I got my embrochure developed and strengthened the new muscles I am now using, I couldn't get ANYTHING to work right.

I kept trying different thing in my setup, but still couldn't do any good. I started with the stock Yani mouthpiece that came with my sax, but couldn;t get it to work right with any strength reeds. I got a Rousseau SJ6 Studio Jazz and that didn't quite work. I
then tried a Vandoren S35 which sounded good, but My intonation was all over the map. One practice would go good and the next was awful.

I was about to give up on the soprano and was looking into trading it for a tenor. Fortunately, I got a lesson and got myself straightened out. Apparently, all the struggles had finally gotten my embrochure into shape and once I got back to the right setup, everything came together pretty well. Interestingly, my teacher put me back to the Yani mouthpiece and the 2 1/2 reed that I started with. (I've had a grand total of 30 minutes of lessons!)

It apparently just take a while to get the right embrochure. OVerall my "new" embrochure is a little softer overall than my clarinet embrochure, but is more "round" with more support from the sides. Also, I am using the bent neck so that I will blow through rather than across the mouthpiece. Also the reed position on the mouthpiece is a little different than what I use on my clarinet.

Winston Churchill's advice seems appropriate... :Never give up... Never give up... Never give up!!