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View Full Version : New Member - Evaluation of S1 Alto



doublerdad
01-08-2004, 09:17 AM
Hello. I'm new here. First, I've been reading this forum for awhile, and I'd like to thank everyone who posts here. Your comments have been extremely helpful.

I haven't been 100% pleased with my Yani 990 Alto for awhile, and haven't wanted to spend the money on a new or used Selmer, so considered the Buffet as an alternative. I found an S1 on EBay recently that I bought for $1000. Cheap. I'm a professional player, a doubler, but my primary instrument is clarinet, so of course I've known about Buffet for 30 years.

The S1 Alto I purchased was made in about 1981. It arrived in real good shape. My repairperson has experience working on these, and he changed a couple of pads (LH palm keys needed it most) and adjusted some key heights. This helped the evenness of the horn a lot. However, it still has some "quirky" spots, and a little bit of uneven resistance.

However, the overall sound is simply wonderful. It has that "French" sax sound, like the Selmer, that you simply don't find on the Yani and the Yamaha. It's not as free-blowing as a Selmer, or a Japanese horn, but as a clarinet player, the resistance feels real comfortable to me.

As per intonation: It's got the "A" in the Serial Number, but it still plays considerably higher than a more modern horn. It plays nicely in tune with itself, and at around 440, if the mouthpiece is pulled out considerably farther than usual. It looks odd, but it works. This actually makes the middle "B", "C" and "C#" a tiny bit low, but this is easily compensated for on sustained notes with the RH palm keys. The intonation above high "C" is flawless...much better than any other alto I've tried. Altissimo is good, it responds well, but isn't as loud as my Yani.

Action is fine...nice fast table, and comfortable hand position. A previous owner added palm key risers which fit my hand real well. I'd recommend these. I really the LH pinky mechanism. Makes the extreme low notes easy. I'm still getting accustomed to the RH C/Eb rocker. Eachof these notes speaks easily and comfortably, but I'm finding the slide between them awkward.

It's got plenty of power. With the extra resistance, I can understand the rep this has as a "classical" horn, but I'm currently playing lead alto on the show "Dreamgirls", and with my customized Meyer 6 (baffle added) I can blow the roof off the place with this horn. Probably because I'm so used to clarinet, I feel comfortable using just tons of air, and this horn will take it and not distort. Dynamic range is excellent. It holds it's center real well in soft dynamics, except for the very middle of the horn which tends to be a little unfocused in "p" and softer. I think working with reeds will fix this.

The more I play it, the more I'm getting accustomed to the little idiosyncracies of this horn, and the better I like it. At 1/4-1/3 the price of a new or used Selmer, these Buffets have got to be the best bargains around. I don't think this would be a good choice for a beginner. But if you're an experienced player, want the "French" sound, and want to save just a ton of money, this is an excellent alternative to a new or used Selmer, or any of the Japanese altos.

I hope this helps. This forum helped me a lot, and again I appreciate it.

MBushaw
01-14-2004, 08:56 PM
Good review, doublerdad.
My S-1 alto went thru a complete repad with Jim Schmidt pads (the older style, not the new metalized ones.) see
http://cvip.fresno.com/~js210/pad.html
My horn also is an "A" series. I've found none of the intonation problems that you mention. Not sure if this is because I come from a Selmer BA background and had gotten used to the many quirks of that brand or if I just have a really great horn. I use either a Selmer LT (balanced by JVW), or a Barone hard rubber piece. I agree that the power of this horn is amazing. I played next to a great player with his SilverSonic alto, and had no trouble balancing and blending, something even he was surprised about.
On the RH rocker, I found that the little pads that are supposed to slide on the brass of the underside of the touchpiece can cause a lot of drag. I've put a thin piece of self-stick nylon between the two, and that made the difference in that now the slide between the two notes is faster and smoother than with rollers. Also getting the whole contraption adjusted for my pinkey helped.

jconnor
02-20-2004, 08:34 PM
Doublerdad,

I too have a 1981 buffet crampon alto. It's a Prestige, however - a copper model. It is stunning in tone. People say these are classical horns all the time, but that is decreasingly the case in the UK. S1s are much in demand in the pro Jazz world - especially Prestige models - but all S1s are great horns. With the wrong mouthpiece they can be almost dull, the tone is so warm (once again, especially the copper models). A nice big bright mouthpiece gives a beautiful sound though, putting an edge on the warmth. I'm not too sure but I think you were lucky to pick one up for $1,000. Mine set me back near enough £2,000.

john

doublerdad
02-27-2004, 08:16 PM
Thanks for the replies.

Shortly after my original review, the fork Bb started not to work. I took the horn in, and there was a VERY simple fix...one of the primary adjustment screws in the LH had worked itself loose. Five minutes later the horn was fixed...the leak caused by the loose screw was driving the pitch up and making the horn play out of tune with itself. It also evened out the action and the response when fixed. So, I'm now a totally happy camper.

A question about valuation. This instrument came with a modern case, the original being lost in the netherworld somewhere. How much does the original case add to (or lack of subtract from) the value of these instruments?

Thanks.

MBushaw
02-28-2004, 04:53 PM
I immediatly replaced the original case with a Hiscox. The Buffet cases are not very good. I don't think Buffets will ever achieve the collector status of Selmer horns, so a missing case is really nothing to worry about.

singlereed
02-28-2004, 05:42 PM
By the way, I found the Vandoren V5 series mouthpieces helped tremendously with tuning and intonation on a S1 alto. I used to use an A28 when I had one of those horns, I used to find mine was wild in the palm key range with any other mouthpiece I had at the time. As a clarinettist, I suggest such a mouthpiece would feel very comfortable.

mostly alto guy
03-01-2004, 02:01 AM
Yes, the V5 A28 works well with the S1. Oddly enough, it also works with the SX90R. These two horns couldn't be any more different (and still be alto saxes) in tonal concept and bore design, but this mouthpiece lets both play in tune.

William Bua
03-16-2008, 07:14 AM
This is a great thread.
I am the proud owner of an S-1 tenor. I have found it to be much better than any tenor I have played. I have owned two yani's, a cannonball, a keilwerth, a beat up mark vi and yts-62. The buffet does have the french sound. That fact has been pointed out here. I read a review of these horns and the idiot who did the review siad the horn weeps when you put a lot of air through it. I found just the opposite is true. I recentely had the chance to play 4 great tenors side by side. a 145,xxx range mark vi, a THE MARTIN tenor, my S-1 and a Buescher THC. The Buffet just kicked the butt of both the mark vi and the Martin. The THC was a great horn for rock and blues and definately surf saxophone. I sounded nasty on the thc, but for the vast majority of gigs, the buffet will kill them all. Aren't you guys glad that you can buy them for the 1700-2500.00 range? Has anyone here had a buffet S-1 that wept? Has anyone owned a buffet that played out of tune? That's what I thought.

Subphonic
03-19-2008, 04:36 PM
I just bought a 1975 S-1 alto. Let's start with the good. Huge sound! When I play with my HR Berg, forget about playing into a mic. Ergonomics are speedy and amazing.

The bad... I'm having extreme intonation problems. If I tune to octave G, everything below octave D is flat (about 15 cents). The guy I bought it from just had the horn overhauled, but it just doesn't feel like it is totally perfect. I have a couple stuffy notes, mainly high B and C. Also, G in any octave is sharper than the other notes.

Help! I know this is a great horn, but I'm just getting frustrated and want to get rid of it.

tjontheroad
03-19-2008, 06:02 PM
I just bought a 1975 S-1 alto. Let's start with the good. Huge sound! When I play with my HR Berg, forget about playing into a mic. Ergonomics are speedy and amazing.

The bad... I'm having extreme intonation problems. If I tune to octave G, everything below octave D is flat (about 15 cents). The guy I bought it from just had the horn overhauled, but it just doesn't feel like it is totally perfect. I have a couple stuffy notes, mainly high B and C. Also, G in any octave is sharper than the other notes.

Help! I know this is a great horn, but I'm just getting frustrated and want to get rid of it.

Your S1 maybe high pitched. Take it to you local tech for a look over.

More info;
http://saxpics.com/buffet/SSeries.htm

mhoyoux
03-20-2008, 03:06 PM
Hello !!

I've bought a BUFFET S1 from 1976 in near new condition and I'm currently using VANDOREN V16 "A5" on it and got more punch, clarity.

I haven't got intonation problem on it (and also on my others horns)...

I've got less resistant on altissimo playing on the BUFFET than my Serie II Selmer alto...

Every keys are very well placed...The horn seems to fall right in the hands...

Max.