A rubber Sanborn-sounding mpc?

[saxmax]

Does anyone know of any rubber mpcs that can deliver you a Sanborn-like sound? I can't seem to get that edgy sound i want from my vandoren v16 a6s, which i just recenlty bought.

[SuperDave]

Beechler Diamond inlay
Jumbo Jazz
Lakey
Runyon Bionix

[LateNiteSax]

Saxscape downtown.

[NatureColor]

Does anyone know of any rubber mpcs that can deliver you a Sanborn-like sound? I can't seem to get that edgy sound i want from my vandoren v16 a6s, which i just recenlty bought.

V16s are made to be like the american mouthpieces like meyers.
If u want bright and edgy, try the A45 with different reed and lig combo. I'd suggest the beechler dimaond inlay 5S or 6S.

[saxnbax]

My RPC sounds fairly bright. This is the one with the baffle.

[CountSpatula]

My RPC is quite dark actually...the closest on rubber to me would be Jumbo Java.

[AntonVonWebern]

The British player Derek Nash uses an HR mpc on alto and gets it sounding very bright and Sanborn-like, its a Beechler Diamond Inlay (as mentioned above) he says it`s an 'S8S', its towards the end of this video (he goes through his saxes first then briefly discusses mouthpieces)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dQdPSlmTNcI

[zxcvbnm]

Jumbo Java.

[martinm5862]

Does anyone know of any rubber mpcs that can deliver you a Sanborn-like sound? I can't seem to get that edgy sound i want from my vandoren v16 a6s, which i just recenlty bought.
Last time I noticed, he played a plastic Dukoff. I think Dukoff only makes metal pieces now.
mm

[CountSpatula]

Last time I noticed, he played a plastic Dukoff. I think Dukoff only makes metal pieces now.
mm

Nope, his is a metal Dukoff D8 refaced probably.

[JB4sax]

Saxscape downtown.

I thought that the Downtown was only a tenor model, but checking their website I see that Ken makes an alto version. Thanks for the insight. It looks great!

The Jumbo Java is a good choice.

A HR Brilhart Level-Air would probably get you close, too, seeing as Sanborn played a metal Level-Air in the early-to-mid 70's. HR Level-Airs come up once in a blue moon on eBay.

Lawton also made (makes?) HR mpcs - a BB chamber should be about as bright as you could want to get

Also consider a Berg Larsen with a 0 or 1 chamber. Their HR alto pieces always seemed to be less bright than you'd expect by looking at the baffle-chamber, and the 3 chamber can be downright mellow.

Good Luck

JB

[super20dan]

i use runyon xl for sanborn type sound

[J.Max]

Last time I noticed, he played a plastic Dukoff. I think Dukoff only makes metal pieces now.
mm

Actually he plays a Saxworks mouthpiece, which is an idealized Dukoff D8. The plastic Dukoffs are much better made pieces if you can find one.

As far as modern pieces go, the Jumbo Java is probably the closest I can think of.

[Saxmusiclover]

I second the Jumbo Java. Right now I'm testing the A45 and it sounds Sanborn-like when I really push it. I play it with La Voz medium and BG ligature. Good luck.

[SaxyJ]

Any mouthpiece that has a high baffle and small chamber will give you that bright, edgy sound similar to Sanborn or other contemporary artists.

[dave2sax]

If you want loud, bright and edgy - there's plenty of those pieces around, like many of the ones mentioned above.

But to me, loud, bright and edgy does not really describe the Sanborn sound, it's a bit more complex than having just those qualities. I've tried a lot of those pieces and yes, they sound loud, bright and edgy, but not really close to having that Sanborn sound IMO.

Short of getting a metal Dukoff and being transplanted with Sanborn DNA, I think the best you can hope for is finding a piece, any piece, that works the best for you - and then doing everything in your power to wring that Sanborn sound out of it with tons of practice, lots of listening, being aware of your sound, and then making subtle changes.

Just don't limit yourself to checking out the traditional paint-peelers like the Jumbo Java, you may find others that allow you to "shape" your sound better, and sound more like Sanborn if that's what you want to do.

FWIW, I felt as though I was much closer to a Sanborn thing with a Meyer 7S, Morgan 6M, or Lamberson 6M than any loud, screaming Lakey, Berg, or Vandoren I've ever tried. Even though I prefer rubber, I'd pick a metal Dukoff over any of those to get the Sanborn thing happenin' with my sound.

The Dukoff and some other rubber pieces have a character and color to the sound like Sanborn has, that some of those other loud rubber screamers do not. There's more to it than just being loud.

[J.Max]

FWIW, I felt as though I was much closer to a Sanborn thing with a Meyer 7S, Morgan 6M, or Lamberson 6M than any loud, screaming Lakey, Berg, or Vandoren I've ever tried. Even though I prefer rubber, I'd pick a metal Dukoff over any of those to get the Sanborn thing happenin' with my sound.

The Dukoff and some other rubber pieces have a character and color to the sound like Sanborn has, that some of those other loud rubber screamers do not. There's more to it than just being loud.

I'd like to throw in here that I've had a similar experience with the Rousseau JDX pieces...I think your anatomy plays a big part in any kind of sound that you'll get, and you have to pick a mouthpiece that goes along with that. My sound on alto is naturally very bright, so I can get a much brighter sound on a Rousseau SJ (my preferred jazz/commercial piece) than most people get on a Dukoff. I had to spend a considerable amount of time learning to control my airstream so that I didn't sound "blatty" on every mouthpiece. I think that a similar piece to what Sanborn plays on is a starting point, but you aren't necessarily going to get a similar sound just because you use similar equipment.

[zorroperro]

I use a Jumbo Java A45 with Plasticovers and nope, no David's sound. Nor Warren's sound either, who actually uses the exact same piece, the A45 jumbo Java with Vandoren Java Reeds, number 3's.

David's sound comes from many other things beside the mouthpiece, and the reed has to do. If it helps, use older reeds but avoid getting in a reed search for too long.

That, with keeping looking for a mouthpiece will not let any embouchure develop correctly. We all know embouchure is a life time process. No one ever finishes improving it.

Find a bright mouthpiece, those recommended are Ok, maybe the Beechler ones, but keep in mind that a V16 reed may help or maybe other, but has to be really broken in and push it, look for the harmonics as you play... specially at the high register.

More importantly, look for your sound, not anybody else's. It is you who is going to blow, to feel and to make others feel.

All the best,

JI

[LeftySaxDude]

Charles Bay makes a killer HR Sanborn-type piece, the EJ model. It's badass, and you can control it much easier.

[Birdman]

I would try whatever Maceo Parker uses. Sanborn sounds alot like him. I thinks it's sometype of Brilhart if I'm correct.

-Birdman

[maestroelite]

Huh? Maceo sounds nothing like Sanborn. He plays an Ebolin, but regardless I don't see the similarity.

[soybean]

Also; Arbex and Strathon.

[zorroperro]

Huh? Maceo sounds nothing like Sanborn. He plays an Ebolin, but regardless I don't see the similarity.

I really think those are opposite sounds. I agree with maestroelite.

[J.Max]

I would try whatever Maceo Parker uses. Sanborn sounds alot like him. I thinks it's sometype of Brilhart if I'm correct.

-Birdman


Uh...no. Very, very different sounds. Maceo DOES play a stock Brilhart though.

[PhilF]

I am selling a HR Beechler 6S6 on Ebay. I experimented with the thing. With 2.5 A Superials and a Harrison lig with Dave playing in the background, you could shape the sound quite a bit. But, remember DS sound is more than just the sax, mpc reed, and sheer talent, there are some external adjuncts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160247123060

[SaxyAcoustician]

Vandoren Jumbo Java. I don't know of any other rubber mouthpiece with a baffle and chamber that are so similar to those of the Dukoff D.

[cjpts]

If it helps, its widely accepted that Sanborn bought a stock D7 and D9 from Bobby Dukoff who made a minor alteration to make the mouthpieces suit Sanborn's embouchure better.

I find my sound is most similar to Sanborn's when using Alexander Superial reeds, or a Runyon Quantum. A strathon adjustatone is getting towards Sanborn's sound when pushed.

I know its a metal piece, but I put my tenor Dukoff M6 on my alto with 3½ Javas (could've done with #4) and got a reasonably similar sound.

[CountSpatula]

I know its a metal piece, but I put my tenor Dukoff M6 on my alto with 3½ Javas (could've done with #4) and got a reasonably similar sound.

Your tenor mouthpiece on your alto? Funky...

[cjpts]

Your tenor mouthpiece on your alto? Funky...

Yeah I was surprised how well it worked - it accentuated the imperfections to start with (flat mid C#, sharp low Bb, leaky lower stack D) but a lil tweaking made it gig-worthy. I definitely think I'll use it for testing any saxes I work on from now on as like my Runyon it helps pick up the flaws ;)

It was so much better than my alto M7 so I think when I go to sax.co.uk in a couple of months I'll try a wider D chambered Dukoff. Til then I'll mostly be on my trusty Lakey (these are under-rated as flexible pieces!). From my GAS experience, I have to say the best thing to do is to go to a good shop and try as many of the mouthpieces listed above - you might save yourself from buying an expensive piece that doesn't work for you (and don't restrict yourself to rubber if you don't need to! 2nd hand Dukoff's are very well priced)

[themacintrasher]

Your tenor mouthpiece on your alto? Funky...

Bari?:twisted:

[ljclancy]

Hello SaxMax,

I see that you are looking for a hard rubber mouthpiece that will give you a Sanborn sound. Maybe the following may be of interest to you.

I only listen to Gospel music and that is the only type of music I play, so I can't honestly tell you if my alto Berg Larsen 85-0-M mouthpiece or my alto #7 Runyon XL with spoiler inset moithpiece will give you a Sanborn sound or not. Both of these mouthpieces were suggested in this post. For reference see post #11 by JD4sax and post #12 by super20dan. I have both of these and I can say that they are loud! In fact too loud for me. Therefore I am selling both of them. I also have a Runyon Quantum #6 (without spoiler). It is not quite as loud as the Runyon XL. It too is for sale. I recently tried out a Jody Jazz ESP #7 from the Woodwind and Brasswind company, and really liked the sound of it. I hope I can sell the above 3 mouthpieces to help me pay for the Jody Jazz ESP.

For more details on the condition and selling prices of these 2 alto mouthpieces of mine, go to the SOTW Marketplace and click on the "Horns and Equipment Wanted & For Sale" link under the followng thread:

FS: Alto Berg Larsen, Runyon XL, Runyon Quantum Mouthpieces

I also know from past experience that a Vandoren Jumbo Java is super bright and quite biting. I bought a used one about 6 months ago from JD, another SOTW member who I have met personally and have done business with several times. Great person to know and do business with. It too (the Jumbo Java) is now just too loud for me. All of these loud mouthpieces were fine for me at an earlier period (the last 6 months or so), before I started playing through the Church PA System. I now need a mouthpiece as the ESP which isn't so blatantly loud and bright to the church congregation since I am currently playing with a mike and amplified system.

Lester J. Clancy

[zorroperro]

We all know the importance of the reed in the sound. A bad reed can make you wonder even if your Mark VI is a good horn.

David Sanborn has used Vandoren Javas and V16's alternatively and many rumors have been around about being deliberately broken. Maybe...

My impression, as a former user of those reeds and may I say, sometimes I give or take a try to the Javas, is that they have a lot to do with David Sanborn's special sound.

A very used reed, pushed all the way as you play may give those harmonics not obtained by humming he gets.

He also developed a technique where the air stream diminishes and gives him that sound.

If you take a close look to his playing (look, not hearing) you will realize he privileges the airstream going to the roof of the mouthpiece, as if trying to obtain high F or high F# multi-phonics... not getting them, but sort of, will put you close to the sound you are looking for.

Is not only in the equipment, has to do with the technique.

[jazzcat58]

i use runyon xl for sanborn type sound

is that the metal xl..like a smoothbore? i use a smoothbore on my bari ..excellent and a bionix on my alto 10 opening but would like a sanborn type sound on the alto.
i think it could be the answer
bryan

[super20dan]

no its plastic and i use a plasticover reed-its very bright and powerfull-just like a dukoff

[Sam_C]

I saw Mr. Sanborn a few days ago in Selmer Paris and he said that he uses 2.5 V16s, but sometimes he gets a special cut done for him. He also has a complex reed- soaking system that takes months. He was a gentleman.

[EZ]

I've got a Berg Larsen grained HR piece that is the most Sanborn-y sounding HR piece I've ever played. 2.5 V16 or ZZ is my reed of choice.

[monkmydear]

Lebayle Studio HR. VERY bright. Too much for my taste (but I like Link type mouthpieces)

[bluesdude31]

Well i would say that it depends on many things, such as the way your ambochure is and how you play. I play on an Yamaha 62II and a Selmer C* and i have a sound similar to David Sanborn and i also have a Dukeoff M7 which really cuts and sounds even better. I use Gonzalez and vandoren reeds.

[cann0nba11]

Why not just get a Dukoff? Is there a reason you are staying away from metal?

[BigVSax]

Why not just get a Dukoff? Is there a reason you are staying away from metal?

Gotta agree here...why the fear of the dreaded evil Dukoff? I put one on and found I liked it better than my Meyer. (somewhere others are cringing)

[dave2sax]

I put one on and found I liked it better than my Meyer. (somewhere others are cringing)

Yep, the purists are cringing...statements like that can get you banned from this site. ;)

Actually I've been playing an SR Tech Pro piece that's been great after a reface by EZ - nice clear tone and not as harsh as many Dukoffs or even some rubber pieces I've tried.

[BigVSax]

Nice, Ive been playing with that type of sound and am not completely satisfied with the Dukoff...ever play the Barone version? I am toying with buying one he has but its a lot of dough to try something I may not be totally happy with. I do play Barone on my other horns though so I was willing.