Does anyone using Yamaha 82ZUL to play classical music?

[hellas]

I think most of the Yamaha users would choose Yamaha 875EX in playing classical music. Is there any people using Yamaha 82Z unlacquered to play classical type of music? If yes, would you share your experience and setups with us? :)

[Raspberry 007]

In reference to the YAS-82ZUL, the unlacquered (or any other coating) Z is an outstanding cross genre instrument. Don't think that b/c Phil Woods pitches the Z and Otis Murphy, Formeau, and Sugawa pitch the EX that either horn is not capable of playing in a different genre. The 875EX and 82Z are different horns and can be used equally well in almost any setting. They have different core sounds, but the saxophone is a medium of expression--the voicing is done with embouchure, breath support, articulation, and then mpc./reeds/ligature, etc. I have just started playing classical rep. (and everything else) on this instrument and actually have set aside the YAS-875EX for the 82ZUL. It took me all of one day to almost completely adapt to the keywork/sound/intonation.

I played through Maurice's Tableaux de Provence at my most recent lesson after long-tones and overtones, and the professor mentioned that I sured up the lower register beautifully. He further stated that my long-tones & overtones are really allowing me to produce a rich, beautiful, and resonant sound. I had a few trouble spots with the Z's LH palm keys in some of the more rapid parts b/c the palm keys on the Z are set so much closer to the saxophone's body than they are on the EX.

Most significantly, my professor did not even notice that I had switched horns until after the lesson, when he observed me wiping the body/bell/bow/keys/neck down with a cloth--he's apparently all ears. He was amazed by the transition and likes "my sound" (whatever that may be) much better on the YAS-ZUL.

Yamaha did not design a jazz horn or a classical horn--the 82Z and the 875EX are cross genre instruments--they are great instruments, but they are different. As I have previously read on this website, Yamaha should seriously consider making an unlacquered 875EX. I don't know why they do not.

Now, I know the sound difference is almost entirely the completely different bore diameter, taper, bow and bell, etc. The absence of lacquer feels different and sounds different to me, but I cannot distinguish much of a difference when listening to recorded samples (though I am becoming better at distinguishing such subtle nuances).

[BYOB]

I use an 82Z, lacquered, but it's great for classical playing actually. If you work at it, you can achieve quite a full, resonant classical tone. Currently I'm taking lessons for my classical and occasional jazz playing, and it really is a cross-genre instrument. Depending on how you play it, the Z can be two different beasts altogether.

I honestly wouldnt trade it off for anything. Not a Series II, not a Ref 54, not a Mark VI. But just remember no horn can fit specifically into one genre. Pick the horn that you like the most, and stick with it - it's most likely good for everything.

[keiko]

I've had 2 tenor mark 6 and the last mark 6 I sold because 82z.

My 82 Z is un lacquered and like someone said earlier...I wont trade it to anything.

I think 82z no matter what finish is suitable for any music, classic, jazz, pop, etc. It is just so versatile. You just have to adjust with mouthpiece.

Usage of hard rubber mouthpiece will make it more suitable for classical. Actually the original yamaha 4cm is sweet for classical.

Currently I am using a soloist selmer size g and I think it is sweet enough for clasical and jazz.

[grantonsax]

The problem(s) i had when I completed my saxophone perfomance degree at the age of 33, after I had played jazz for a living for over ten years on sax, is thus...

the middle c# on the unlacquered 82 z that I played my senior recital on, played sharp in the upper stack. the c# was at least 15 cents flat, when played without alternate fingerings. when your playing the Loundeax, or what ever that gay tune in our alto a was, that was a pain. Maybe it was f# minor. I played a bunch of other "reportoire", but wasn't that into it.

[grantonsax]

i meant taubleax

[keiko]

The problem(s) i had when I completed my saxophone perfomance degree at the age of 33, after I had played jazz for a living for over ten years on sax, is thus...

the middle c# on the unlacquered 82 z that I played my senior recital on, played sharp in the upper stack. the c# was at least 15 cents flat, when played without alternate fingerings. when your playing the Loundeax, or what ever that gay tune in our alto a was, that was a pain. Maybe it was f# minor. I played a bunch of other "reportoire", but wasn't that into it.

Hmmm...i have tried on my sax, it sounds ok, ...

[Steve P]

C# is a problematic note on -any- saxophone. Using an alternate fingering for middle C# is pretty commonplace, as is adding a finger of the RH on high C# as it too is generally sharp.

Also, grantonsax, the word 'gay' is not a synonym for the word 'stupid'.

More to the topic at hand, I think in general most of us players generally sound like ourselves on any horn. The saxophone is simply a tool for making music, and we all search for the tool that allows us to make music most naturally. I play an EX myself, as it is most comfortable for me to work with, but I sound like 'me' on any horn, from Z's to Yani's to Vintage horns....

Steve P

[Daveyz]

Any horn is okay for any type of playing. I don't know why some people believe the Z is for jazz, and the EX is for classical. I play a Z for classical and jazz, and I don't really see a difference, except for the mouthpieces I use.

[keiko]

Any horn is okay for any type of playing. I don't know why some people believe the Z is for jazz, and the EX is for classical. I play a Z for classical and jazz, and I don't really see a difference, except for the mouthpieces I use.

Exactly, one needs to experience various of mouthpeices in order to get the sound that you want. Dont use metal for classical thats for sure.

The 4CM is sweet enough for classical, the problem is it is too closed... I am thinking of opening up the tip (not me but I mean to take it to a guy that do the job) The blunder of yamaha is that they tend to include the same opening mouthpiece to every sax they have in their production line. I agree if they put yamaha 4C in yts 32 or 23 but for more professional saxes, they should not include mouthpiece with 4 opening, at least 5 or 6.

People often disregard or undermine (is that the word?)the quality of yamaha custom mouthpiece, it is actually one of the most sweetest sound mouthpiece available.

[SaxyAcoustician]

Dont use metal for classical thats for sure.
Ridiculous advice.

So the hard rubber Vandoren Jumbo Java is more suited for classical music than the venerable Selmer Metal Classical?

[Steve P]

I think it is no 'blunder' of Yamaha by including the same number mouthpiece with each horn. I would say that 9 times out of 10, people have their preferred mouthpiece anyway. The idea is to include a quality, good playing mouthpiece with each horn. I would say they do that for sure! The YCM mouthpieces are quite good, but I think most would agree that they find their voice on something of another make. I personally keep my Yamaha Custom mouthpieces around for any young students I have who need a new mouthpiece, but might not be able to drop a lot of money on a C* etc.

Steve P

[jbarrera]

Ridiculous advice.

So the hard rubber Vandoren Jumbo Java is more suited for classical music than the venerable Selmer Metal Classical?

A lot of people don't know there is a classical metal mouthpiece. Hemke plays on one. Lighten up :D

[keiko]

Well I am sory for giving "ridiculous advice"

I was classical player and music teacher in a local school. We highly recommended yamaha hard rubber and sax in school. We never advise students to get metal nouthpiece because we believe that it is a bit louder.

Regarding the vandoren..i've never tried it...and I never say you can play classical for every hard rubber mouthpiece... I only say (in paraprhase) hard rubber mouthpiece is more suitable for classical. I know there are loud character hard rubber but most classical players I know play selmer mouthpiece for classical or if students they use yamaha mouthpiece.

Also i did not say in rude manner, I think i dont expect a rude reply. I just joined this website and I just realized someone can be quite overacting in reacting to a friendly post. Cant you just say "I think it is not appropriate if you say dont use metal for classical..." English is not my native language but I know manner more than you sir.

It is easy to say things without seeing someone in person I suppose.

[keiko]

I think it is no 'blunder' of Yamaha by including the same number mouthpiece with each horn. I would say that 9 times out of 10, people have their preferred mouthpiece anyway. The idea is to include a quality, good playing mouthpiece with each horn. I would say they do that for sure! The YCM mouthpieces are quite good, but I think most would agree that they find their voice on something of another make. I personally keep my Yamaha Custom mouthpieces around for any young students I have who need a new mouthpiece, but might not be able to drop a lot of money on a C* etc.

Steve P
I did not understand what you said ... but now I do so I edited my post...

Maybe you re right, but i was jus thinking for their proffesional line sax like 82z or 875ex, if they use 5 tip opening or 6 or even better if we could choose, then it would be nice as advancing classical students dont need to spend more money to get another piece. They re not cheap.

[SaxyAcoustician]

I was classical player and music teacher in a local school. We highly recommended yamaha hard rubber and sax in school. We never advise students to get metal nouthpiece because we believe that it is a bit louder.
Saying something is 'ridiculous' when it is ridiculous is not rude, especially with regards to misinformation being passed along which is the case here. It is not beneficial to mislead or misguide people with unfounded opinions. You are misleading people.

To say material is more influential than the design of the mouthpiece is grossly incorrect.

It is easy to say things without seeing someone in person I suppose.
You may be right but, believe me, I would've said the same thing to you in person.

[MoonPie]

A lot of people don't know there is a classical metal mouthpiece. Hemke plays on one. Lighten up :D

So true - I overheard a conversation recently in which a couple of kids were making fun of another sax player because he was playing a metal mouthpiece in a concert band - but he was really playing on a metal Selmer "classical" piece - and not only that, but he sounds WAY better (and more "appropriate" for concert band) than those kids do !!

[zxcvbnm]

I guess my metal goldbeck (large chamber no baffle, about a 0.055 tip) isn't appropriate for classical. Maybe I should use a Runyon XL instead?

[nachoman]

I'd always thought classical players disliked the 82Z, claiming it was too out of tune for classical playing...?

[maestroelite]

Wow, if the 82Zs are out of tune I'd love to see something "in" tune. My Z tenor is more locked in than any horn I've ever played.

[soybean]

I'd always thought classical players disliked the 82Z, claiming it was too out of tune for classical playing...?Where did you hear someone say that?

[nachoman]

Where did you hear someone say that?
From several folks who've brought custom Zs back to our shop saying they couldn't play them in tune...

[jjmt333]

Putting this softly, I strongly disapprove of anecdotal references to a Custom Yamaha, let alone any of the few other professional saxophones playing "out of tune." If a person is unable to play a Yamaha Custom Z in tune, then they are not much of a musician, let alone a student of classical music (or any other saxophone playing for that matter). The 82Z locks in tune equivalently to the Yamaha 875 and 875EX alto--these are by far the two best saxophones ever made. It sounds like people are blaming the the "tool" or "medium of expression" v. focusing on their own lack of skill on an instrument.

[Raspberry 007]

Okay, the revolution (return to the point of origin) has been interesting. I think Steve P said it best. In summary, Steve P stated that the saxophone is a tool--I completely agree with him on this--the saxophone is a medium of expression. Steve is probably the finest up and coming legit. saxophone student (doctoral student nonetheless) in the United States. The Z's intonation is superb--any doubts raised by Z players will probably fall back on the player himself/herself. I am confident that Steve could take either the EX or the Z on stage and be just fine (or many other horns for that matter).

While I am primarily a jazz player, I have no problem playing Maurice, Ibert, etc. on either the EX or the Z. Oh yeah, and some guy named Marcel Mule played on a metal Selmer mpc., but he apparently was not well-versed in classical saxophone.

[SaxyAcoustician]

If a person is unable to play a Yamaha Custom Z in tune, then they are not much of a musician, let alone a student of classical music (or any other saxophone playing for that matter).
That's a soft statement? lol~ I'm glad someone besides me doesn't mind the truth.

I'll say it and I'll say it again: With regards to wind and string instruments, players play in tune, NOT INSTRUMENTS.

[ianhart]

Well, i'm going to stay away from the fire here, and just mention that I play primarily classical on my 82Z, and it works just fine for it.

[nachoman]

That's a soft statement? lol~ I'm glad someone besides me doesn't mind the truth.

I'll say it and I'll say it again: With regards to wind and string instruments, players play in tune, NOT INSTRUMENTS.
totally with you guys on this.

[jjmt333]

For me, that was soft! I was just chatting with ftttf007 about the tools we use; we both agree that if we spent less time obsessing about equipment and more time learning to play the equipment, we would all be better off. Ftttf007 spends about 6-8 hours each day practicing, ear training, and transcribing, and he just started his "new saxophone career" two years ago after a 10 year break from the sax and stint serving the United States. We both agree with Phil Woods--less time in the store and more time in the studio.

Ftttf007 and I are both guilty of too much time in the store (he more than me, but he has more money). Practice, practice, practice . . . and off I go to the studio.

[hellas]

It seems quite a number of players are using Yamaha 82Z to play classical music. So, what setups you all normally use, like S80, Caravan, etc?

[SaxyAcoustician]

Everyone's different, conceptually and physically. Gotta experiment. I know it's expensive and time-consuming. Have to understand that finding the right setup takes years and will be a frustrating process especially as you're growing and developing as a player because you yourself will be changing. But once you're there, holy moly!

[ianhart]

It seems quite a number of players are using Yamaha 82Z to play classical music. So, what setups you all normally use, like S80, Caravan, etc?

Link 4**** Model (4 facing), Couf Artist 4*R, Vandoren A17.

[Kini]

I've been reading through old 82z threads, becuase I am considering replacing my Series II with one. I've talked to a couple of Selmer players, who, when playing 82z's were initially significantly flat, even with the mouthpiece pushed all the way in, for awhile, until they were able to consistently adjust their voicing. This seems to be a better explanation of the "in tune" issue, rather than a scale issue.

[gary]

Why are you considering doing that? I've played 82Zs and I have a Serie II - wouldn't trade the one for the other. Although one can get the Z to sound very good, IMO the Serie II has a more substantial core sound to it.

[jjmt333]

I've been reading through old 82z threads, becuase I am considering replacing my Series II with one. I've talked to a couple of Selmer players, who, when playing 82z's were initially significantly flat, even with the mouthpiece pushed all the way in, for awhile, until they were able to consistently adjust their voicing. This seems to be a better explanation of the "in tune" issue, rather than a scale issue.

If you want to replace your Selmer Serie II with an 82Z, well, first that's your decision, but please let me know as I may be interested in the right Selmer Serie II.

The Selmer Serie II is an excellent horn and the ideal classical horn for those who prefer a much warmer horn than the 875EX, and it is also a great jazz horn. The 82Z is slightly warmer sounding than the 875EX (but the Serie II is the warmest), but the 82Z is quite spread in its sound. I read on saxforte that the 82Z is nearly as warm as the Yanagisawa 992, but I have not played the 992.

[Erik Brodin]

yamaha 82zul alto with yamaha 4cm mpc and vandoren 4 reeds for classical/quartet