Your Grand-Teacher

[alto86]

I saw this topic on the woodwind.org clarinet message board and thought it was interesting. The question is, who was your teacher's teacher -- your grand-teacher. Can you see their influences in your teacher's playing and teaching styles?

I thought it was interesting to see how many common names came up. For example, I expect that Allard will appear quite a bit on our list. I could be wrong though.

My grand-teachers include:
Joe Allard
Lee Konitz
Jim Pepper
Rich Halley

I don't know some of my other teachers studied with -- I'll have to ask them.

In terms of influence, I can certainly hear the Konitz, but I'm not sure about the rest.

[Razzy]

Harold Karabell
Phil Woods

And my teacher is Frank Mazzeo. He studied with Harold until he passed away, then studied with Phil Woods.

[GHawk]

Larry Teal.

[gary]

who was your teacher's teacher -- your grand-teacher. Joe Viola and possibly John LaPorta
(my first teacher was Sadao Watanabe)


Can you see their influences in your teacher's playing and teaching styles?No idea. Lotta Bebop in Sadao's playing, though.

[OnyxSax]

My teacher was Chris Vadala, who studied with (among others)

Donald Sinta
Phil Woods

Maybe my history isn't correct, but didn't Phil Woods study with Charlie Parker? Would that make Charlie Parker my Great-Grand-teacher?

[paulwl]

Allard via Rob Scheps; Teal via Lynn Klock; and Hemke via Paul Bro. Klock was both teacher and grandteacher to me, as he also taught Bro. I guess you could count Rascher, too, thru workshops with his students.

Great-grandteachers include Mule, Wiedoeft, and Merle Johnston.

[averageschmoe]

marcel mule, daniel deffayet, phil sobel, and way back to henry lindeman. my professor (leo potts) sounds like either a classical player trying to play jazz or a jazz player trying to play classical, depending on the listener's background.

[KSQ]

For the instrument itself (i.e. through principal teachers), I can name Joe Allard and Anthony Gigliotti. For performance-related studies, John de Lancie (and thus Marcel Tabuteau as "great-grand-teacher") and Marcel Moyse would be on the list. And for other musical studies, which I consider integral to the way I approach music-making, my grand-mentors would include George Crumb and Olivier Messiaen.

I won't go into my experiences in master classes, which would bring up even more luminaries!

(A composer friend of mine once did a little research into his "family tree" of teachers, and was able to trace his "lineage" back to the 17th century.)

[TylerW]

Scott Plugge was both teacher and grand-teacher to me although I generally count him as my only true sax teacher. This makes my one true grand-teacher Hemke.

[sax0nerd]

my grandteachers would include:

donald sinta
larry teal
daniel deffayet
joe allard

paulwl...where did you study with lynn klock?? i studied with him from 78-81 at Hartt School of Music.

steve

[paulwl]

Summer of 1980, at Interlochen Arts Camp.

[Merlin]

I studied with Pat LaBarbera, who was at Berklee in the sixties. I believe he studied with Joe Viola and Charlie Mariano.

My writing studies were with Ron Collier, who studied with Gordon Delamont and Hale Rood. Ron also worked with Duke Ellington from the late sixties through to Duke's passing. I think he might have learned a thing or two from Duke.

[saxofunk]

My main Grand-teacher is Eugene Rousseau.

My teacher also studied with
David Green
Kenneth Fischer
and Larry Teal.

[saxchado]

Eugene Rousseau (on two accounts) and Fred Hemke, which makes my Great-Grandteacher Marcel Mule!

[sax_appeal]

Geez, you guys are really lucky to have such an extensive background of great players behind you (I say great players because I have no idea what they are like as teachers).

I have no idea who taught my teacher, whose main instrument is actually clarinet. My best friend learns from Damien Hern and other good friends learn from Tom Pulford (the schools sax teacher) whose just returned from NY. I don't know who any of those guys learned from either, but they must have been pretty good!

[mr_syms]

Joe Lovano

[Chris S]

My Grand Teahcers include:

Conducting: Eugene Corporon and Jack Stamp

Composition Jack Stamp and Cindy McTee

Saxophone: Roger Greenberg which makes Londiex my great-grand teacher

Good thread.

Chris S

[awholley]

Sigurd Rascher via James Houlik and Kenneth Deans
Fred Hemke via Joseph Wytko
Larry Teal via James Forger and Kenneth Deans

[allstonj]

Londeix

[Steve P]

Hi guys,
So, my teacher is Eugene Rousseau, so my Grand Teacher is Marcel Mule. Neat! never really thought of that before.

Awholley- You studied with Wytko? Hes a nice guy, Im actually in school with his Daughter, Anna. Nice girl, great player. Sounds nearly identical to her father! Guess the apple doesnt fall far from the tree!

Steve P

[awholley]

I only studied with Wytko for a year before I became enamored of the bassoon, but I learned a good deal in that time, and was very impressed with the studio he was running.

[sax_appeal]

The only Grand-teacher I know about now is Dusty Cox (I have a new teacher!!!!)

[TMadness1013]

Interesting topic

Grand teachers include Laurence Wyman, Sigurd Rascher, Laurence Gwozdz

via David Wright & Charlie Gray

[sw3119]

It has been a while since I took lessons. I took them for a couple of years with a guy named Jim LaPine in Danbury, CT.

I looked for his name in google and found a band web site with info on him and here's what it said:

Education: Attended Berklee College of Music and is a graduate of the Hartford Conservatory. Post college studies include jazz legends

Dave Liebman and
Jerry Bergonzi.

Professional Experience: Jimmy has recorded and/or performed with the following :
Gerry Mulligan
Woody Herman
The Coasters
Gunther Schueller
Mel Lewis Orchestra

[Melv]

Mine are:
Lee Konitz
Joe Allard
Connie Crothers

Later

[Kritavi]

Through my teacher Kelly Shepard to Grand Teachers
Gary Bartz
Junior Cook
thus Great Grand Teachers include Trane
Kelly is the finest sax teacher I have every met so he lives up to this lineage.

[Ken]

I have no idea who my teacher's teacher was. As far as his influences goes I would say:
Coleman Hawkins
The Basie and Ellington saxmen
Stan Getz

[fballatore]

Boy - Joe Allard really got around. He's my grand-teacher also...

[saxophrenic]

My Grand Teachers are:
Joe Allard
Roger Greenberg

[Sassaphone]

My teacher is from the Bay area, he studied with Joe Henderson.

[saxophrenic]

It sounds like some of us are just very close to greatness! How cool is that?
:toothy7:

[JayLaczSax]

Grand teachers; E. Rousseau via Kenneth Tse

John Sampen, Fred Hemke, J.M. Londeix via Joe Murphy

[CircaRevival]

Not sure who my grand-teacher is, I will have to ask, but I know my teacher taught Walt Weiskopf (Author of "Around the Horn", "Beyond the Horn", and "John Coltrane: A Players Guide to His Harmony") He's also the head professor of sax at Eastman.

[WalkyTone]

My teacher was :
Standley Karp
Joe Henderson

[Razzy]

Update: In addition to Phil Woods and Karabell... Gigliotti, John Krell, and Larry McKenna... cool.

[Brian The Hornman]

My current teacher is actually a clarinetist, so I have no idea who his teachers were. As for the previous teacher, he studied with Londeix at the conservatory in Bordeaux, among others.

[saxymanzach]

I only know of David Hite, but I know there are others.

[Zoot Horn]

My teacher would list a lot of his grand teachers. Here's the one that get's me -- Louis Jordan. I figured that out and decided this was the guy.

I never trained as a musician, not seriously. I've spent a lot more time studying martial arts. Here's how you pick a master -- first you want to know his lineage, then you want to see him fight.

I think this is a really important question for a student to ask. Teachers are important. Some of them are a waste of time.

[Sadie]

Ralph Bowen

[paulwl]

Allard: 7
Hemke: 6
Teal: 5
Londeix: 4
Rascher: 3
Deffayet, Konitz, Mule, Rousseau, Sinta, Viola and Woods: 2 each
A whole bunch of others: 1 each

From this somewhat random sample, I suspect Joe Allard is the most influential saxophone teacher of all time.

Now stop biting. :D

[scottyhoop]

Joe Viola, Phil Woods, Ramond Ricker, Donald Sinta and Sigurd Rascher. The ones I know of....I'm sure the guys I studied with studied with many more.
Scott

[Zoot Horn]

BUZZZ!! Not a random sample. Participants self-selected for the survey. But, you can believe whatever you want. There are NO rules of induction.

[KSQ]

Allard: 7
Hemke: 6
Teal: 5
Londeix: 4
Rascher: 3
Deffayet, Konitz, Mule, Rousseau, Sinta, Viola and Woods: 2 each
A whole bunch of others: 1 each

From this somewhat random sample, I suspect Joe Allard is the most influential saxophone teacher of all time.
But keep in mind that Hemke, Londeix, Deffayet, and Rousseau all studied with Mule, which would seem to make him the most influential teacher in this limited, non-scientifically-derived list.

[2thmechanic]

Mule via Hemke via Wytco via Nelson

Dave

[Michigansax]

Hmm-

I did my bachelor with Michael Jacobson - Eugene Rousseau - Marcel Mule

Did my masters with Don Sinta - Larry Teal

Doing my doctorate with Eric Nestler - Eugene Rousseau - Marcel Mule

[Toot Sweet!]

I'm an amateur player from Switzerland. I studied for some time with alto player George Robert whose main teachers were Phil Woods and foremost Joe Viola, when George studied at Berklee. At my first lesson, George cited Joe Viola: "A saxophone is about SOUND!"

[retromom]

My grand teacher is Paul Cohen :? :?

[Ken]

My great-great-great-great-great-grandteacher is Louie Armstrong :)

[rs1sensen]

My current band directors are Mark Greer and Richard Anderson. I've actually met their high school directors (they are judges for a scholarship the program gives every year). I do know that my directors were students of Larry Teal in college.

Mark Greer also went to Arizona University, where he was under Gregg Hanson (I think). Greer taught at the University of South Dakota, too. (I'm very lucky to have some pretty talented directors).

[Rahspeak]

my grand-teacher is Jim Riggs. didn't think I'd be the first to post that...

[saxymoose]

one of mine is Branford Marsalis 8-)

[bebopjazz]

Berkeley Fudge

Played with:
Sonny Stitt
Roland Kirk
Lena Horne

[SplitTony]

Scott Plugge was both teacher and grand-teacher to me although I generally count him as my only true sax teacher. This makes my one true grand-teacher Hemke.

I agree with you, Scott Plugge is my Grand- Teacher. He was my teacher in CT and then he moved back to TX (Sam Houston State University). I moved to TX to continue my studies with him. Any students in the Houston area looking for a teacher to study jazz or classical with should give him a call.

I guess that makes my true Grand -Teacher Hemke to.

[fenix424]

Fred Hemke would be my Grand-teacher.

[BKauth]

Sigurd Rascher via Laurence Wyman and Lawrence Gwozdz
Donald Sinta and Pat Meighan via Wildy Zumwalt

[J.Max]

Well, I studied with Eugene Rousseau and Michael Hester, so that means my "grand teachers" are Marcel Mule, Larry Teal, Donald Sinta, and Jean-Marie Londeix. I also took a few lessons with Elizabeth Ervin and Jan Faidley, but they are also Rousseau types.

I studied with Vince Gnojek and Greg Briggs in high school, so that means my other "grand teacher" is Harvey Pittel...I don't play the sopranino though...

Come to think of it, I also studied with Bill Caldwell and Kevin Mahogany in jazz in high school. (Yes, THAT Kevin Mahogany. He's a singer, but I studied with him for theory.) I need to find out who Caldwell studied with because he's Kansas City's answer to Michael Brecker.


I never realized that I had so much "American" school training. Huh. I also never realized that I've had so many teachers!


My wife has the best one though...she can trace her piano lineage back to Beethoven!

[jaysne]

Vincent Abato.

And I believe he took from Mule, too.

[hydemusic]

Marcel Mule

[Rick]

Awsome thread! My Grad-Teachers are:
Sigurd Rascher via William Trimble and Larry Teal, Donald Sinta, Joe Allard and J.M. Londeix via David Henderson.

[queperknuckle]

Well, my teacher is Anton Scwartz. I'm going to have to do some detective work to find out who taught him :)

[Jolle]

Joe Lovano
Cool! Not my grand-teacher, but also a client of my tech. Which leads me to believe my tech is quite good, and makes me wonder whether my horn has had a little chat with the one of Lovano :D

greetzz

[baritone]

anyway to make the great grand teacher to Mr. Adolphe Sax?

[Saxydude]

Let's see:

Jazz Grand-Teachers: Jackie McLean- - - -Charlie Parker (great grand)

Classical Grand Teachers: Sampen (also a former direct teacher), Abato, Hemke.

[SaxJazz12]

My Grand Teachers: Joe Viola, Frank Chase, David Liebman, Joe Henderson

[Jeremy]

Sigurd Rascher

[paulwl]

Sigurd RascherAnd no one else? Or just no one else worth mentioning?

[Jeremy]

And no one else? Or just no one else worth mentioning?

Honestly I'm not sure. Sigurd Rascher was the main influence saxophone-wise on the teachers that I have spent a significant amount of time with. I suppose there might be a clarinet heavy-weight in there from my time with Ronald Caravan. But not knowing much about the clarinet world, I don't know. Lawrence Gwozdz, one of my other main teachers, studied with Jean-Marie Londiex on a sabbatical, so he might be considered one of my grand-teachers as well.

[Pinnman]

My principal grand-teacher was Kneller Hall, the home of the British army's school of music.

[grevsax24]

My grand teachers are Hemke and James Hill (OSU)

[Bari Sax Giant]

Marcel Mule ---> Eugene Rousseau ---> me

[AlistairD]

Can't remember his name but my 'Uncle' teacher is John Coltrane, according to my teacher...

[BIG B Convert]

"Saxophone: Roger Greenberg which makes Londiex my great-grand teacher"

Ditto to that. Studied undergrad at UNC

[Al Stevens]

My sax teacher's teacher was Dr. Gerald Welker (RIP). I went to high school with Gerry Welker, and I taught him to play jazz. The circle is unbroken.

[DD]

My great grandteacher was Francois Combelle --- Marcel Mule --- Joe Viola.
Almost goes back to Adolph.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.selmer.fr/histdetail.php%3Fid%3D24&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=9&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DFrancois%2BCombelle%26hl%3Den

[Graysax]

Hey Jermey - Yale Rascher camp 1992 - Is that you I remember being there?

Charles

[young651]

Mule through Rousseau
Ray Ricker/Ken Radnofsky/Claude Delagle through Matt Sintchak