Rampone & Cazzani R1 alto review!

[Brice B.]

As I mentioned a while ago I finally got a chance to order a Rampone & Cazzani R1 alto in heavy silverplate. I ordered the horn through Matthew Aaron at saxforte, and it was a very possitive experience.

The horn plays fantastic. I am very pleased with the quality and build of the horn. I chose to go with silverplate over the gold plate so the horn would be a bit brighter, which was very much accomplished. This horn has amazing responce, and has such great control in all registers and dynamics. It makes a wonderful jazz horn that is very complex in timbre, but is dark enough and easy enough to control for classical work. The finger board is a lot like an older Selmer, but is a little easier on the fingers. This horn has the largest bore of any on the maket, and the difference is a very full and even sound. I tell you, you could not put too much air into this thing, and yet it is very easy to control. The playing characteristics are like a Keilwerth in that regard, except that this horn has a lot more grace, and the sound is much more refined. The tone is a lot less spread as I thought it might be.

Let me be very clear in saying that this is probably THE best value on the market. The horn is completely hand made, comes in the finest case I've ever seen, has a complete set of accessories, is heavy silverplated (not flash plated), and is far less than a comparative Selmer or Yamaha. I saved hundreds, even close to a thousand dollars than a similar Yamaha or Selmer. And if one chooses a heavy goldplated horn, you would save probably $2000 over a similarly plated Yamaha. These horns play so well that the value is beyond comparison.

I would happily field any querstions you all might have about the horn. The sopranos already have a great reputation, and now the alto can be said to be just as good in my opinion. thanks for listening!

[scale_master]

Brice,
thanks for this post. Just out of curiosity, have you test-played the
R&C side by side with other horns, and if yes, which ones and what
were your impressions?

Thanks,

B.

[Brice B.]

Do you mean other brands of horns, or other models in the R&C line?

[DaveKessler]

Brice,

Should you ever decide to come to Vegas, bring it along. We have been interested in the RC horns (since we like the Cola so much! just kidding) but have been leary to order one because our only experience with them was from older versions (15 - 20 years at least) and were not happy with them.

I too would like to hear how it compares up against other horns.

[Brice B.]

Dave, I think you should start up some talks with the company. These are the best value on the market IMO. Like I said, they have a quality of build that is as good as Yanagisawa or Yamaha. The only negative is that the finish has little inconsitancies, which is not a major problem at all. Just a few small blemishes I would say. That's not say that the finish is not good, it is just from the hand finishing I would imagine.

As I said, for a price that is below similar quality Selmers you get a horn that is hands down better quality and playing. I think for a completely hand made instrument it is a deal that has no comparison. The timbre is very complex, also very full. It plays more evenly than the current model Selmers and Yamahas I've owned. There is also very little resitance in the horn. It blows very open.

The horn also has amazing intonation. I find the tuning to be easier than a Yamaha.

I would certainly buy more of these horns. I imagine that they will pick up in popularity. I think they've already seen business grow since their apperance at the Worl Saxophone Congress. I know they will have a booth at IAJE this year for anyone who wants to try them. I would say that the time to get them is now before they really take off!

[DaveKessler]

Actually Brice, I have been in some minor contact with the company over the past year. The main thing that we are interested in just from a curiousity standpoint is their Saxello.

The problem is that (to us) the Yanagisawas are lower priced (for the A901) and we think that they are by far the best value on the market and are also handmade.

The other problem with the R&C horns is the Dollar to Euro. Since they are made based on the Euro, the price is always fluctuating. For instance:

2 years ago, a Euro cost me (after bank fees) about $0.80 for one Euro. As of this morning, it costs me about $1.24 per Euro and it is still falling. Heck, even just about 1-2 months ago it was costing me about $1.15 per Euro.

So the price on the R&C horns are not stabalized for the US Market whereas the Yanagisawas, even for the dealers not buying through the US Distributor Leblanc, are made originally based on the Japanese Yen which is somewhat more stable against the US$.

Plus, R&C wont take a return overseas because of the loss of money through the Exchange rate as well as customs fees. Plus, R&C doesnt show at the NAMM show or any other US show so it is hard for us to evaluate the horns without just buying one and being stuck with it should we not like it.

[Brice B.]

Well, I know they'll e at IAJE this month, so if you or anyone else goes they can be tried there.

i know what you mean about the Euro, so that stinks.

BTW, the horn plays great with the mouthpiece you're producing!!

[Morry]

I certainly intend to try a saxello when I have the funds.

[Joe Jazz]

I second everything Brice said about the quality of these saxes, based on my recent purchase of a 24K gold-plated R1 soprano. It's a great sax that put an end to my search for "the soprano". There are slight imperfections in the finish compared to Yamaha or Yanagisawa which I assumed to be because the R&C's are totally handmade. If I weren't already happy with my other "keeper" saxes I would have no qualms about buying R&C's(especially since I want to try their sanded silver plate finish). :D

[Brice B.]

Joe, did you buy the curved soprano? Can you give some more insight into how it plays and its qualities?

[Joe Jazz]

Yes Brice I have the R1 curved soprano. It has a rich tone, much nicer than the three Yani SC901's I'd previously owned. It came with a Selmer S-80 C* which sounds good, but after trying several different mpc's I've been using a Lawton stainless B chamber on it. Ergonomics are fine. I bought mine from Roland Ekle in Germany(nice guy). I would highly recommend him and the sax to anyone looking for a top-flight sound. :D If I didn't already have my other saxes I wouldn't mind loading up on Ramponi & Cazzini's!

[Brice B.]

Yeah, a R&C soprano will be my next purchase, though it may be a ways off. I can't decide between a saxello or curved though...

[Morry]

I like my Keilwerth soprano so much, that I can't imaging playing another straight version. I'm thinking the curved or the saxello are in my (distant) future.

[scale_master]

Brice,
sorry about being unclear in my post; I was referring to a comparison
between the R&C and the other saxophone brands (like Keilwerth, Selmer and Yamaha, conn etc.).
I am just curious whether the general sound characteristics of the R&C are more Keilwerth like or tends to be Selmer. Some people also refer to a
more or less spread sound, or the American and French sound.

hope that clarifies my initial post,

B.

[Brice B.]

I think it has a more focused sound, maybe like a yamaha, but it is much fuller in character. I don't think it is as dark as a Keilwerth, in my opinion. It has more core to the sound than most brands.

[Joe Jazz]

Again I second Brice as far as the R&C curved soprano goes too. The tone has a lot more character than the yani SC901's I've played. I still like the sound of my silver-plated YSS-675 using the curved neck and a Bari HR mpc, but would say the R&C has a slight edge there as well.

[Captain Beeflat]

Brice. Sounds as if you have a lovely horn. Is it of ribbed construction?

[Santee>]

The sopranos are the only R&C models that have ribbed construction...alto, tenor, etc. are individually soldered. I was told that they were having some slight problems with the buffer (the person who buffs I believe, not the machine). My R1 straight soprano has a perfect finish except just one small scuff area. The saxello is great, but has a lot of resistance. The curved is the best curved I've ever played by far... and the straight is better than the best Mark VI in my opinion. I have some posts on my R1 soprano on SOTW that should answer most questions on my opinions of the R&C saxes. BTW, these saxes are like larger bore Mark VI's in my opinion. They've got a very full sound... Yanagisawas and Yamahas are good, but they're not even close to R&C's (but I have to say I like the standard neck design of other brands for tenor than the R&C R1 neck design... they offer a neck w/the standard 'gradual' curve on special order for tenor... alto and soprano, etc. all have standard neck designs).

Brice, U have a link to some photos of the sax???

[Bill08690]

Just returning from the IAJE show in NYC and would like to report that the R&C horns are just as described by others in this thread. I listened to the curved sop, saxello and tenor played by competent musicians. The curved Sop sounded more like an Alto to me, more like it belonged in the saxophone family than typical straight sops. The saxello was also very nice but you needed to be in direct line with the bell to get the full effect of the horns tone. The saxello sounded different than the curved sax of course, but no different than typical straight sops. The tenor was to die for, very nice tone, especially the white gold plated horn. I think the Italians have a nice tone concept in their designs.

Anyone thinking of buying a high end horn should add this manufacture to their list of horns to audition.

[Joe Jazz]

I had not heard of a white gold-plated model......are you sure it just wasn't a variation of their silver-plate???

[Bill08690]

Perhaps you are corret although I though I heard someone say white gold. Regardless it looked super!!! And sounded great too!!

[Joe Jazz]

Geez, now I'm going to have to start thinking about getting rid of my silver YTS-62!

[paulwl]

I tried the R-C Saxello at WSC XIII myself and was very impressed. If I were in the market for non-vintage horns, this would be #1 on my list.

Not that it's at all relevant to today's R-C product, but here is a lovely old satin silver R-C tenor that looks suspiciously like a Chu Berry knockoff...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2375556025

http://i10.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/2b/b1/58_1.JPG

[Santee>]

I just found out that their saxes don't have detachable body to bow rings. Which is actually one of the features these saxes have...I guess that makes sure there are no leaks in the bow! I can't stress enough that these saxes get individual attention - completely hand made. They'll even engrave your name on the sax if U want them to. (not sure how much that costs, but my name's inside the bell of my soprano).

I'm not aware of a white gold finish. We're looking into rose gold plating for the keys of a sax they'll be making me this year...and the sax will be done in black-nickel (the engraving will look so amazing w/that finish :)

The only thing about the saxello is that the sound is pretty quiet compared to the straight soprano. It looks amazing though, but I like to have more volume and slightly brighter tone compared to good looks. (function first, then beauty!)

They've got a line of mouthpieces out too by the way. They're similar to metal Links but have the Lawton-type built-on ligature system goin' on. They're finishing prototypes of a high baffle, large bore mouthpiece that has narrower rails. I'll try to toss up some photos of one when they send one to me. As always, it's nice to have mouthpiece options!!!

Any news on where these saxes can be bought though? I know www.saxforte.com sells 'em, but I'm sure people will want to try playing them in a store against Selmer, Yamaha, etc...

[Joe Jazz]

Other than Saxforte I know of no other place in the States that sells them. I bought my curved soprano from Roland in Germany, and REALLY love it. It would be nice to be able to play them before buying though. Would definitely result in more sales.....

[Saxaholic]

I agree with Joe Jazz...the option of a return policy would result in more sales...as opposed to, say, "absolutely brand new horns".

So what if the horn's been tried out by a few people? If sent back after being tried out, and it's damaged, that customer is legally responsible to pay for the horn.

In my understanding, people visiting him can try out the horns on the spot...so, what is the difference? Nothing against his business, he apparently is very good at what he does, otherwise he wouldn't have as much business.

Now, back to the original post ;). I have been really thinking about snagging one of these R1 Jazz horns w/o engraving...and sending it to Jason to do as a blank canvas.

Anyone, including the original poster, who has detailed information on these horns (having played them, compared etc etc), could they please e-mail me at WalterNak8ATyahooDOTcom substituting the AT with @ and the DOT with . Thanks.

[Joe Jazz]

Go Walter, Go Walter! What a GREAT idea! I'm still thinking about the R1 tenor....it would be nice to be able to go somewhere and check out the different finishes......I just finished playing my curved :D soprano....can't imagine ever playing any other soprano again......

[Morry]

I have been really thinking about snagging one of these R1 Jazz horns w/o engraving...and sending it to Jason to do as a blank canvas

My idea exactly. I want some of Jason's kewl engraving but, unless a horn is oversprayed with lacquer or something, I figure the bare brass will tarnish where the engraving is. That would sort of defeat the whole purpose. But a gold plated horn....ahhhh....now we're talking.

[Hurling Frootmig]

Morry,

That's why I sent Jason my Buescher Aristocrat alto that was basically bare brass. It looks very cool. It's a nice horn on top of that.

[Morry]

I'm thinking that he could take an unengraved goldplated R&C curved soprano and just cover it up with engraving. Would be very nice.

[Joe Jazz]

You guys are making me want another sax tattoo!! :idea:

[Brice B.]

Give it a while, and you will be seeing these horns more readily available. I know they are getting ready to find more dealers in the US to carry their line. But to protect the R&C quality and hand made aspect, these things have to work slowly or they will be in danger of loosing the real botique feeling to the company. They will be a major brand in the market I would imagine, not due to their yearning to compete with other brands, but due to the demand for the horn that is starting to come about.

BTW, Matthew Aaron at Saxforte is great to work with. I just ordered my second R&C from him today! I'll be receiving a silverplated R1 curved soprano soon! :lol:

[Joe Jazz]

GO BRICE! You're gonna love it! :D

[Morry]

You guys are making me want another sax tattoo!! :idea:

Another one?

[Joe Jazz]

Yeah, got two so far.....one with Snoopy in tux and shades playing my previous gold lacquer YAS 62(Joe Jazz character from Peanuts), and a red M&M in magenta tinted shades playing the same sax...... 8)

[Randall]

Joe, you have got to get a girlfriend.
(hopefully no one related to either you or me!) :a-run

[Joe Jazz]

Randall-

Actually I've been married to the same understanding(let's me keep my saxes)gal for 19 years and 7 months....but I guess you can still try and find me a girlfriend(that likes tatoo's) :!:

[Joe Jazz]

By the way, we're not in West Virginia anymore, Toto!

[Eulipion2]

Joe Jazz: Odd...I'm from WV and don't know anyone married/related to their kin. Now Kentucky, on the other hand... :wink:

[Joe Jazz]

Aw come on man, don't try and tell me you married your first cuzin without knowing....GEEZ! :?

[Saxaholic]

See, I'm pretty much sold on these R&C R1 Jazz horns...I mean....I've heard great reviews, saying they're cheaper than Selmers and just as good etc etc.

One thing: actually trying them. I mean the risk is too much for most players.

If you get the horn...and it just doesn't work for you...you're stuck with a horn you paid close to $2500-$3000 ....so you're out a couple thousand with no option to return it. The likelihood is that you can't go and re-sell it for as much as you paid for it...mostly because most people don't know about the horns or have never tried them.

Am I wrong in saying that's too large of a gamble to take? I certainly don't want to gamble close to $3000 for something I might not like, despite the good reviews.

I think Mr. Santee should give exception to his "no return" policy for the R&C horns. They are not readily available to be tried throughout the country. All the other horns can be tried out and compared to each other, and once a player determines what he wants, they can be assured of an even BETTER horn than the one they tried by ordering from Mr. Santee. However, R&C horns aren't available to be tried...so how are we expected to buy them?

I hope Mr. Santee sees this and considers the option. If more of you guys agree with me, please say so. I think it's a pretty good idea...and would most likely result in more sales of these horns.

Whatcha think?

Saxaholic

[Morry]

Saxaholic, I don't think Aaron Santee is a dealer, just a player/endorser of the R&C horns. The only dealer I know of in the U.S. is saxforte.com, owned by Mathew Aron. He is located in Greenville, S. C.

Although I haven't tried any R&C saxes myself, I have one suggestion for anyone interested in them. Go play a Keilwerth and see how you like the large bore of the horn. Don't worry about the keywork/ergonomics, just see how you like the way the horn blows. The SX90s are bigger in bore than your usual Selmer-based saxes like Yamaha, Yanagisawa, etc. If you are comfortable with the Keilwerth, then you might like the R&C, as they are even bigger in bore than the JK.

The general concensus (if there is such a thing in the sax world), is that the larger the bore, the more spread the sound. So, if you want a tight focused sound, the R&C, or JK for that matter, might not be the horn for you. Of course, with the myriad of mouthpiece options out there, it's not impossible to get that type of sound, it just might require more trial and error.

[Joe Jazz]

Yes Morry, you are correct. Aaron is a player and now endorser of Ramponi & Cazzini's. He's not associated with Saxforte, who has the no-return policy. I believe Roland Eckle does have a return policy, although you'd have to pay another $50(+ the original $50)or so(that was for a soprano, so alto would be more)to ship it back to him in Germany. I had heard good things about their curved soprano on this forum, so I was not really concerned about possibly having to return it. Sure enough it is the best soprano i've ever played, and the thought of returning it never entered my mind. I do vaguely remember reading about Roland having a return policy, but can't remember any details because it wasn't really a concern for me. As I said before just e-mail him and ask about it if you wish to. The Euro goes up every day though, so everything gets more expensive as we speak......I know the tenors have gone up about $100 in the past couple weeks....you could always drive to Saxforte and try some out I guess...we could have an SOTW sponsered road trip and have a hundred people show up to test play them I guess..... :lol:

[Saxaholic]

OH geeez I definitely meant Mathew Aron!!! Mr. Santee, I apologize heavily for the mix up!! :oops:

Joe Jazz: I found Roland's site difficult to navigate and understand, even the English version. What is his email, and do I need to translate it to send it? Sorry if I seem a little illiterate on the foreign country topic, I'm not as educated around those fields as I'd like to be, and I'm certainly no computer wiz.

You know, that sponsored road trip doesn't sound like such a bad idea!! :lol: Heh heh, we'd definitely have enough reviews for the horn.

Saxaholic

[Joe Jazz]

Roland's e-mail address is info@ekle.de, or you can just click on the e-mail banner in the left hand column on his site. He speaks English, so that's not a problem. Even though I'm half-German I haven't had any reason to use it after returning to the States 39 years ago, so it only helps a little when trying to figurd out the different finishes and stuff on the site. I've fogotten just about everything I learned over there! Keep us posted! :) Special orders usually take 6 weeks or so for R&C to make for you, just so you know. He normally has the regular R1's in stock but an R1 jazz might have to be ordered.

[Brice B.]

Morry, I would have to disagree with your comments about comparing Keilwerths and R&C horns. I own both of these brands, and the R&C is a world different than a Keilwerth. I don't notice any of the playing issues of the large bore of a R&C horn as I do with Keilwerths. The sound of an R&C is much more compact, and actually closer to a Selmer. You do get the possitives of a larger bore though in that the lower end is fatter, there is less resistance, and you can push any amount of air through it without the sound breaking.

A more likely comparison would be a a Selmer Super Balanced Action or a very early Mark VI.

[Morry]

I certainly give deference to Brice on this topic, as he has the experience with both. Having heard his comments now makes me want to try one even more.

[Joe Jazz]

Geez, you guys make me want to order an alto, and I sure don't need one as I'm perfectly satisfied with my SX90R....of course, there's still the tenor issue..... :?

[Brice B.]

Sorry, I should have expressed that this is in my opinion. :oops:

[barfdog17]

how does the silver plate hold up to tarnish? how often do you polish it? THis is a big issues on deciding if i get a R&C or not.

[disgruntleddave]

if only i could try one first :(

i have a mk 6, and while i do love the horn, its not as open on the extreme bottom or top end as id like and there is more resistance than i like as well. much more than say, a series 3 (which i find to have a completely dead sound).

anyone care to compare a mk 6 with this R1 alto? i'd probably never buy one (as id have to sell my current horn, and as a student dont have much money on top of it and can't take risks with 3000 bucks or more) unless i could try one out first, but i still want to know about em in case i get the opportunity one time..

[saxboy]

I too am a huge Rampone Cazzani fan.
The Soranino and Soprano's are amazing. The Saxello is a beautiful Sax and the curved R1 Silver was such a major lust that I don't know if I slept much the night before the trade show was ending. I did not really like the price offered and since have seen the exchange rate really mess the prices up.
I love these Soprano's. I think they are the best new Soprano on the market - hands down over the big 4.

I would attend any event that would include getting one in my hands again.

SAXBOY
www.saxreviews.com

[mountainman]

I lusted after the R1 Jazz silver plated engraved tenor with the gold plated bell. Exchanged many E- mails. with Mathew at Saxforte. Even contacted the factory about supporting a home trial and asked how can they expect to sell saxes without at least 1 dealer in every region of the country. ( It'sabout 900 miles to Arron's place) Got a nice response. They are indeed taking it slow.

I wound up using input from this site and several well known professionals. Their input was the Soprano and Alto are great, but didn''t like the tenor so much. They gave me positive feedback on the Keilwerth Shadow.

The only other horn in contention was the Shadow which I did buy from Saxforte and I absolutely love that horn. For more info see my post under Keilwerth.

I can see an R&C soprano in my future!!!

52 years playing sax

[saxboy]

Dave, I loved the Saxello. Very cool sax. SAXBOY Review at www.saxreviews.com. Well worth checking out and Joe Jazz is right about the value and quality of these saxes.

SAXBOY
www.saxreviews.com

[Joe Jazz]

Greg-
I'll be getting an R1 silver curved soprano from Saxforte in the next week or so. If you are ever in the neighborhood again(saw you with Peter White in St. Petersburg 100 years ago when you had long hair)you're always welcome to stop by and play it.....hope you like dogs(got 7).........I'm thinking the silver finish should hold up better than the gold-plated R1 I used to own......I've been missing that rich sound........

[xuanvu]

You'll feel in love again Joe. I love my R1 Jazz!

Kenny.

[saxboy]

JOE JAZZ _ what is up with that little RC?

SAXBOY
www.saxreviews.com

[Joe Jazz]

Saxboy-

Sorry, but don't understand the question. I should be getting my new silver one next week. Same as the silver R1 you test played for quite a while and were impressed with. Sold my first one(thin gold plate that didn't hold up well)to another nice SOTW fella (a. sanchez) quite a while back. Decided I couldn't live without one........ain't it a shame we both are greybeards now? Beats the alternative though......

[saxboy]

If they can paint a sax...

Mine is Black again. Matches the sax better.

Let us know how the new one works out. You could even write a review for www.saxreviews if you have time. Always looking for outside input.

SAXBOY
www.saxreviews.com
www.gregvail.com

[Joe Jazz]

I thought I saw you on that Just For Men commercial! Didn't recognize you without the Yamaha......I might have to try that again......but the silver matches my new soprano........

[Morry]

Ah, the reprise of Mr. Hyde..... :-)

[Joe Jazz]

Indeed! He lives! I've decided the only way to shut him up is to give him what he wants........and then burn whatever credit cards he has left...... :twisted:

[Morry]

I might have to drive to Florida to give that little horn a toot.

[Joe Jazz]

It would be good to see ya!

[sopten]

You will love it! Wait for the 28MB quicktime movie at the end. Wow what a sound!

http://www.hobbysax.com/Fabbrica.html

[Matt Kaesler]

I play tested a R&C R1 Jazz alto in gold plate the other day and found it to be... well... less than impressive for it's $9000AUD price tag. I found the bottom keywork huge, open and imprecise and the top keywork felt like it wasn't opening properly and was equally imprecise. The massive bore of the horn means it was impossible to fill and although it was lovely and dark in sound, it was just hard, hard work and it would be hard to play bop standards on. For R&B, rock etc it's probably ok but it was just hard work. Then again, I don't like that big American Conn/King thing, I prefer the Selmer/Yamaha approach, it's like the difference between driving a '57 Chev Belair or a razor sharp Honda NSX Type R.

[mountainman]

Yes Brice I have the R1 curved soprano. It has a rich tone, much nicer than the three Yani SC901's I'd previously owned. It came with a Selmer S-80 C* which sounds good, but after trying several different mpc's I've been using a Lawton stainless B chamber on it. Ergonomics are fine. I bought mine from Roland Ekle in Germany(nice guy). I would highly recommend him and the sax to anyone looking for a top-flight sound. :D If I didn't already have my other saxes I wouldn't mind loading up on Ramponi & Cazzini's!

Joe can you forward me Roland's website? Can't seem to locate it. I had entered into " negotiations" with Saxforte for an R&C saxello, but he has discouraged me due to the plating imperfections you mentioned earlier.

When I extended the palm keys on my Shadow the threads were unplated showing bare copper! And I (not being one of those who believe playing a crappy looking horn enhances your stature as a player) requested replacements. When I contacted JK directly they were happy to send me replacements! That makes me overly critical of cosmetics. Maybe so! I will make that call when I actually get to see the horn!

It is possible to have great sound and beauty at the same time. Since I want the curved neck for the darker sound I prefer and the Saxello is such a beauty, at least in pictures, I will continue to persue it.

Still loving the Shadow?

[Joe Jazz]

www.ekle.de.
My impression from the last R&C I had is that they had corrected the "rough spots" in the finish that I found on my first one. However, the plating on the R1's still seemed rather thin looking to me(the gold and and non-vintage silver finish at least). I never tried an R1 Jazz or vintage finish so can't say about those. I still love my Shadow yes. For me it is the perfect sax....just which it had been less expensive!

[Teabag]

You will love it. I have a silver one and it is the best soprano I have ever played. Got mine from Matthew and it plays great.

Hopefully, you'll have yours in time for Christmas too. Nothing like some beautiful Christmas carols played on a soprano.

Enjoy!