The Martin Baritone's Middle E

[JPrince]

Last night I received my The Martin Baritone, serial 202,XXX and she sounds great! I love it! But I notice the middle E (top space on the staff) is grossly out of tune. I can't fix it (adjusted MPC and embouchure both) and I was wondering whats wrong. My jazz director is going to look at it before school and check it out (He said he thinks the "octave key is banging it" whatever that means). Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, how do you fix it? I am only a student, and my parent's spent almost all of their tax refund getting this sax for me, so there would be only a little amount of money to pay to get it fixed. I didn't see any major damage to the horn, but I suppose there is always that chance with UPS shipping. Well, any thoughts are appreciated.

[BravoKilo]

I used to own a Martin bari, from about that vintage, I believe. The middle E on that horn tended to be quite sharp, as did the F a 1/2 step above, although less so. I never tried to get it fixed, just got used to it and compensated. There may be ways, however, to adjust the intonation of that note, I would suggest having a good repairman look at it.

[garyinla]

THE MARTIN saxes are not known for their great scales.

You may have a repair problem.

You may not be playing the sax in the way that results in the most even scale. THe neck design affords a lot of flexibility in how the sax is played, so you have to pay attention to how you hold the sax, at what height, your posture, and how you direct the airstream from your embochure. There may be a way to blow the sax that results in a more even scale, you have to experiment playing against a tuner and see what you can do.

Also there is always the possibility the sax has a bad scale. Good luck trying to find a repairman who is willing and able to adjust this at a reasonable price.

[JPrince]

"How I hold the sax"

How should I hold it? I hold it on the right side, where the mouthpiece fits just comfortable into my mouth, at a height where the top of the loop is just below level vision. Really, I hold it like I would any Bari Sax. Wierd. Well, I'll play around with it and maybe get some estimates. It might also be a mouthpiece problem..... Thanks guys.

[DirkW]

I play a Martin Bari, 189,XXX. There is nothing quite like its lusty subtones 8) , but the intonation is all over the place. D, E, and F are all off in varying degrees. The LH palm keys get pretty wacky as well. It's the nature of the beast, and man does this beast roar.

garyinla has great suggestions. You might find someone who can adjust key heights for you to improve the intonation, but closing keys too much will make it play stuffy. The Martin is not a classical horn; it's for rock, jazz or blues.

I've found that larger chamber mouthpieces play a little more accurately, and it helps to have larger tip opening to more easily lip the notes to their correct pitch. But there is no substitute for time spent playing long tones and scales into the tuner.

BTW, while selling my Martin Tenor last November, I received a call from Dave Liebman. He had tried a Martin 208,XXX and said it was the best sax he had ever played. But with his endorsement deal with Keilworth, he couldn't perform or record with anything else.

[garyinla]

The angle and height that you hold the sax, and your posture, all affects how you play.
I had this pointed out to me recently by a pro player of some repute.
He personally showed me that if I held it straighter and higher (neck strap tighter) and concentrated on my embochure and breathing that not only would I get a bigger, better sound but also intonation/tuning problems would be alleviated too.

The Martin THE MARTIn sax has a particularly great flexibility in the different ways and angles you can direct the airflow into it. MY experience is the alto model (and a little bit with the tenor model) but the same probably holds true with bari, and to some extent with any sax.

I dont think there is any one "right" way to hold a sax or blow into it, but how you do it (by conscious choice or bad posture, or laziness or discomfort) can all affect the results.
So if you pay attention these factors and work with a tuner, maybe you can find a height, position of the sax, and embochure and way to blow and direct the airflow that works for you and affords you with the best intonation and tuning across the scale.
If and when you find this, then you have to consciously remember to play that way all the time. Try playing in front of a mirror and see where the sax is where you are playing, how you are standing, how your posture is, etc.

[JPrince]

I think I found out what you mean last night. My Jazz band director couldn't find any thing physically wrong with the sax, so at first we thought it might have just been screwy. But then I remembered that my school has a slightly newer (and beat up) Martin, serial 210,XXX. So I went up and got it, and tried it with the same setup (Yamaha 5C plastic MPC, Vandoren Traditional 3 reeds). I got the same result. So either it is

1) All Martins have bad intonation - which if so many people use them I doubt, or
2) It is a fault of the mouthpiece and/ or the reed

So my mom (yes, I am 18, but I still love my mommy, lol) stopped off and chatted with a tech that my band director's called about the problem on her way home from work last night, and told him the problems I was having with my horn. Ironically, he too was a Martin Bari player! What are the odds! Anyway, he said it was all in the mouthpiece (I was using that stupid starter Yamaha 5C) and the reeds. So, based on his reccomendations (and not knowing it was close to what I wanted) she bought me an Otto Link Super Tone Master Custom 7*, plus La Voz reeds to use as opposed to my usual Vandoren Traditional. Right off by swapping off mouthpieces (the Yamaha with Vandorens, and the Link with La Voz) in those middle notes I noticed a great difference. On the POS Yamaha, they were way sharp, with the Link they were more balanced. Also, I noticed what you said about holding the sax, noticing if I played it straighter, more akin to how you would play an Alto or Tenor from the middle, the pitch would go down, yet playing it kind of laid back where the mouthpiece went into my mouth at a higher angle the notes would go sharp. I haven't checked it with a tuner, but if my ear can definately hear the difference, then I am sure that's what caused it. I am going to go borrow my directors tuner on Tuesday to make 100% sure, but I am certain this fixed my problem. Granted, I am still getting used to the Link, as that 7* is quite a bit different than the Yamaha I'm used to. But man, the sound is..... awsome. I guess that's what a Yamaha YBS-52 is all about, being forgiving intonation wise at the expense of tone quality. Hey, of you guys have other siggestions, keep em coming! I know I could use them.

[Bootman]

First of all, congratulations on finding a solution. The choice of mpc can make a huge difference to how well a vintage horns plays. There is nothing like having that big huge vintage thunder baritone sound. Keep honking that Martin.

[JPrince]

Hey thanks. Really though, I owe all of you guys for credit on the solution. And my mom for getting me both the horn and the mouthpiece. But I see what you mean about that big huge vintage sound. Just for fun I went back to my school's old Yamaha, and the utter lack of depth to the tone just made me put it back after about 5 minutes. I must also say I love this mouthpiece. Thanks again guys though on all of your help! Maybe someday I can repay the favor somehow.

[Stencilman]

I am going to go borrow my directors tuner on Tuesday to make 100% sure
If you have a computer with a decent sound card and a cheap mic, you already have an excellent tuner. Just search for one of the many tuning programs out there. I use "AP Guitar Tuner" that I think I downloaded from www.sharewaremusicmachine.com. It works very well even though it is guitar oriented.