Old YAS-23

[MiketheBassMan]

A few years back, I acquired my first horn, a used Yamaha YAS-23 for about $750. I love it's crystal clear tone which is vastly superior to the newer YAS-23s I hear today. As a high school musician, I am in a section of low-budget horn players. Everyone has a fairly new YAS-23, and I've noticed many differences.

On the bell, my horn has written:
"Yamaha
Japan"
and on theirs:
"Yamaha
Established in Japan"

My horn lacks the adjustable right-hand thumb rest, and instead has little more than a small piece of bent brass welded in place.

Finally, the every alternate fingering sounds exactly the same on my alto, where they can very from similar to atrocious on the newer altos.

My horn is perhaps a pound lighter than theirs, and all silver-colored metal is apparently steel rather than brass.

Can anyone tell me how old this alto is? I'm quite curious, and there isn't a date to be found on it.

[zxcvbnm]

What's the serial number (btw, are you sure it's a 23?)? I don't think a sax maker would ever use steel on a sax because it would rust and would not work as a sax part.

[SaxyJ]

As zxcvbnm has stated, a serial number is one good way to find it's age.

The quickest way, however, is asking the previous owner. Usually, especially if they are the first owner, they will tell you the exact age of the sax.

I, too, bought an old Yamaha yas-23 last year. According to the owner, it was a 1988 model. He even handed me a receipt of its purchase to verify its age.

Concerning the performance of these saxes, I firmly believe that they are one of the best used values today. Ranging from $200-600 (I got mine for $300 + $200 servicing), they offer performance that even rival professional saxes.

[MiketheBassMan]

Unfortunately, I bought the sax from a local music store to which the last owner had sold it a long time ago. I did a few simple tests, and it's zinc, not steel as I had thought. The serial is "063121 A." Anything else?

By the way, the screws and springs are steel, and they do not rust.

[cjpts]

The old YAS-23s were the same across the world, with nickel keys and brass body. Then they had a slightly more refined YAS-32 (52 in US) which is brass throughout and then the legendry YAS-62. There's a parts diagram for the different versions somewhere on the Yamaha USA site.

There were tweaks to the design around 1992, where the painted logo & static thumbrest were scrapped and engraving and a plastic swivel hook replaced them. Also a few years ago they re-designed their saxes, adopting YAS-275, YAS-475 etc but keeping the YAS-23 name in the US. These newer models are supposed to have quite a few improvements, including a neck similar to the YAS-62 on the 475 and a Selmer style bell key cluster.

I'd be surprised if the YAS-23s are worse than the old YAS23 I've tried! The YTS-23 someone in my band uses isn't up to much either, but is a newer YTS-23. I feel that my YAS-32 being one of the oldest is let down by a number of factors, particularly the neck, soft brass and very out-dated ergos. Those bent brass thumbrests aren't comfortable!

[Sidepipes]

Unfortunately, I bought the sax from a local music store to which the last owner had sold it a long time ago. I did a few simple tests, and it's zinc, not steel as I had thought. The serial is "063121 A." Anything else?

By the way, the screws and springs are steel, and they do not rust.

Hi, I have a YAS-23 that I picked up from Sigmund451 that has serial number 052477A. with the bent metal thumb rest as well, so this one may be older than yours. I/ve put on a new neck and a few pads, but I haven't tried it out yet. I'm interested in the approximate age as well.

--Sidepipes

[MiketheBassMan]

Based on cjpts' post, the bent brass thumb rest was only used until 1992, so that means at least 1991, but there's not a whole lot of information, it seems.

EDIT: I actually prefer the bent brass rest.

[6mJunkie]

Just for the hell of it I took my old 23 out last night and tinkered around with it.

It was made in 1993, Plastic thumbrest and engraved logo.

I somehow have 3 necks for it (don't ask, I don't know) and each one plays very differently. One SUCKS. The other two are open and closed, respectively, with very little difference in intonation.

The overall sound is, in a single word, consistent. No surprises whatsoever out of this beast. Tone is middle of the road, but tends to get very thin at the volume extremes and screechy. My lady immediately asked what I did to my usual horn (my 6m) to make it sound "stuffy" after only hearing me play the 23 with the same mpc/lig/reed set up as I usually play on the 6m.

GREAT student horns, very predictable in tone, color and range. Almost too rigid for me...I like the insanity that only a vintage can provide.

[utopial]

I've done a bit of research on the net. Some of it doesn't add up.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Saxophone-2232/f/yamaha-yas-23-yas.htm


The YAS-21 was made from 1970-1980 and the YAS-23 started in 1980 and is still made now (2008).


The 23 series has only lingered on in the US (where they were being assembled until very recently - now production has moved to China), whereas the 25 series replaced the 23 series in the rest of the world in the '90s.

Wikipedia says (without a reference) that the yas23 has been discontinued


Here's what I've found so far:

Oldest ones have big 3-tuning-forks in circle emblem on top, with YAMAHA below and JAPAN below that. Serial numbers begin with a zero?

Newest ones have no tuning-fork emblems, have YAMAHA on top, Established in 1857 in the middle and JAPAN on bottom. Serial numbers starting with a 3?

There appear to be two other types of markings: The second to oldest has a smaller emblem in front of the YAMAHA on the same line, followed by JAPAN on the line below. Serial numbers starting with a 1?

The second to newest appears to only say YAMAHA followed by JAPAN on the line below. I've seen serial numbers starting with a 2.

I still don't know when Yamaha replaced the YAS-21 with the 23.

Bill


my yas23:
normal sized engraved logo to the left of YAMAHA, with JAPAN below. serial = 113315. Black plastic thumbrest (unadjustable).

I contacted yamaha and they replied saying based on the serial the japan office estimates it was produced in 1981-1982. Assuming the yas23 began production in 1980, and that the first batch had the logo engraved above YAMAHA, then mine is the 2nd batch and it came out 1-2 yrs later. I'm not sure if i believe this.

[saxpiece]

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/List/ModelSeriesListHE/0,,CTID%25253D240300%252526CNTYP%25253DPRODUCT%252 526LGFL%25253DY,00.html

Model: YAS-21
Years: 1971(1970)-1979
Key: Eb
Auxiliary Keys: N/A
Engraving: No
Finish: Clear Lacquer
Keys: Nickel-Plated
Finger Buttons: Plastic
Current Model: YAS-23


The YAS-23 starts in 1979/1980 and the YAS-21 has a removable bell and the YAS-23 has a soldered bell-bow connection.

Maybe Yamaha got your serial mixed up and it might be a 1991 serial.

The Yamaha serial numbers are sequential for each model and only for that particular model.
Each new Yamaha model starts with a new sequential serial number sequence.
That means that the YAS-23 sequential serial numbers are not a continuation of the sequential YAS-21 serial numbers.


1. The YAS-23's have big 3-tuning-forks in circle emblem on top, with YAMAHA below and JAPAN below that. Serial numbers begin with a 0?

2. The YAS-23's have a smaller emblem in front of the YAMAHA on the same line, followed by JAPAN on the line below. Serial numbers starting with a 0 or 1?

3. The YAS-23's have big 3-tuning-forks in circle emblem on top, with YAMAHA below and Established in 1857 on the bottom. Serial numbers starting with a 1?

4. The YAS-23's appear to only say YAMAHA followed by JAPAN on the line below. I've seen serial numbers starting with a 1 or 2?.

5. The YAS-23's have no tuning-fork emblems, and have YAMAHA on top, Established in 1857 in the middle and JAPAN on bottom. Serial numbers starting with a 2 or 3?

So you can see the sequential nature of the serials from older to newer 0XXXXX to 1XXXXX to 2XXXXX to 3XXXXX.

Yamaha have a different sequential serial numbering format for every different model and the model serial numbers don't always start from 0.

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

http://doctorsax.biz/vito_7131rk_ser_no.htm Seems sequential for the 21/23 to me. But according to that, 063121A is 1984.:)

[saxpiece]

The Yamaha YAS-21 serials match the Vito YAS-21 serials up until 1980 when the Yamaha YAS-23 is introduced but the Vitos still use YAS-21 parts until 1989 when the Vitos start using YAS-23 parts nearly 10 years after Yamaha introduced the YAS-23.
The Vito YAS-23 serial numbers beginning with a 5 like 501000 starting in 1989 do not match the Yamaha YAS-23 serials but the Vito YAS-21 serials from 1970-1980 do match the Yamaha YAS-21 serials.

After 1980 the Vito serials don't seem to match.
From the Yamaha serial numbers and purchase dates I've seen the Vito serials do match the Yamahas for the YAS-21 up to 1980.
The YAS-21 seems to become the YAS-23 around 1980 and the YAS-23/25 seems to become the YAS-275 around 2000/2001.

Vito and Yamaha YAS-21 serials

1970 1 500
1971 501 2155
1972 2156 3529
1973 3530 4421
1974 4422 12000
1975 12001 25603
1976 25604 30827
1977 30828 33947
1978 33948 38844
1979 38845 42434
1980 42435 47975


Vito YAS-21 and YAS-23 serials

Model 7131RK
1970 1 500
1971 501 2155
1972 2156 3529
1973 3530 4421
1974 4422 12000
1975 12001 25603
1976 25604 30827
1977 30828 33947
1978 33948 38844
1979 38845 42434
1980 42435 47975
1981 47976 52455
1982 52456 58306
1983 58307 62177
1984 62178 68524
1985 68525 72535
1986 72536 78579
1987 78580 85091
1988 85092 89758
1989 89759 501000 (Sudden Jump into 5XXXXX serials because the Vito YAS-21 changes to YAS-23. The Vito 5XXXXX serial number Altos are YAS-23 models. The YAS-21 has a removable bell, the YAS-23 has a soldered bell-bow connection.)
1990 501098 510332
1991 510333 511518
1992 511519 515800
1993 515801 519845
1994 519846 526925
1995 526926 533097
1996 533098 537807
1997 537808 552998
1998 552999 560613
1999 560614 575843
2000 575842 587455
2001 587456 624567
2002 624568 654084

[utopial]

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/List/ModelSeriesListHE/0,,CTID%25253D240300%252526CNTYP%25253DPRODUCT%252 526LGFL%25253DY,00.html

Model: YAS-21
Years: 1971-1979
Key: Eb
Auxiliary Keys: N/A
Engraving: No
Finish: Clear Lacquer
Keys: Nickel-Plated
Finger Buttons: Plastic
Current Model: YAS-23


The YAS-23 starts in 1979/1980 and the YAS-21 has a removable bell and the YAS-23 has a soldered bell-bow connection.

Maybe Yamaha got your serial mixed up and it might be a 1991 serial.

The Yamaha serial numbers are sequential for each model and only for that particular model.
Each new Yamaha model starts with a new sequential serial number sequence.
That means that the YAS-23 sequential serial numbers are not a continuation of the sequential YAS-21 serial numbers.


1. The YAS-23's have big 3-tuning-forks in circle emblem on top, with YAMAHA below and JAPAN below that. Serial numbers begin with a 0?

2. The YAS-23's have a smaller emblem in front of the YAMAHA on the same line, followed by JAPAN on the line below. Serial numbers starting with a 0 or 1?

3. The YAS-23's have big 3-tuning-forks in circle emblem on top, with YAMAHA below and Established in 1857 on the bottom. Serial numbers starting with a 1?

4. The YAS-23's appear to only say YAMAHA followed by JAPAN on the line below. I've seen serial numbers starting with a 1 or 2?.

5. The YAS-23's have no tuning-fork emblems, and have YAMAHA on top, Established in 1857 in the middle and JAPAN on bottom. Serial numbers starting with a 2 or 3?

So you can see the sequential nature of the serials from older to newer 0XXXXX to 1XXXXX to 2XXXXX to 3XXXXX.

Yamaha have a different sequential serial numbering format for every different model and the model serial numbers don't always start from 0.

How do the painted vs engraved logos and brass vs plastic vs plastic adjustable thumbrests fit into these 5 categories? Mine falls into category 2 and is engraved with a plastic unadjustable thumbrest, which contradicts some of the posts above which say all yas23s had brass thumbrests until 1992. Unless category 2 was released post 1992

[saxpiece]

Hmmm.

I don't know about the thumbrests.

I'll try to find out some info about them, time permitting.

[saxpiece]

In 1964, Yamaha began the research and development process that led to the design and production of all the saxophone models.

Three years later, in 1967, the first saxophones to bear the Yamaha logo were brought to market, the alto and tenor models; YAS/YTS-61 and the YAS/YTS-31.

In 1969, our first baritone sax, the YBS-61 was also launched closely followed by the YAS and YTS-21 in the next year.

http://procustom.yamaha.com/en/heritage-history.php

[saxpiece]

Yamaha Model Years

SOPRANO SAXOPHONES


Model Name Production Period Serial Number
YSS-475 '97-'05
YSS-475(2) '05-
YSS-62 '78-'90
YSS-62R '83-'90
YSS-62RS '81-'90
YSS-62S '81-'90
YSS-675 '90-
YSS-675R '90-
YSS-675S '91-
YSS-675SR '91-
YSS-675SU '90-
YSS-675U '90-
YSS-875 '90-'05
YSS-875EX '05-
YSS-875EXS '05-
YSS-875S '90-'05



ALTO SAXOPHONES


Model Name Production Period Serial Number
AD-AS1 '02-
YAS-200AD '04-
YAS-01M '04-'06
YAS-01MQ '04-'06
YAS-100 '94-'02
YAS-21 '70-80
YAS-23 '80-
YAS-23S '80-
YAS-23U '86-
YAS-25 '91-'00
YAS-25L '91-'00
YAS-275 '00-
YAS-275S '05-
YAS-32 '78-'92
YAS-32(2) '92-'02 #101001-
YAS-32(2)E '92-'02
YAS-32F '87-'91
YAS-475 '02-
YAS-52 '78-'02
YAS-52E '78-'02
YAS-575AL '02-
YAS-62 '78-'92
YAS-62(#010001-) '02.07- #010001-
YAS-62(#110001-) '03.02- #110001-
YAS-62(#C00001-) '06.10- #C00001-
YAS-62C '03-
YAS-62CS '03-
YAS-62E '92-'02
YAS-62S '78-'92
YAS-62S(#010001-) '02.07- #010001-
YAS-62S(#110001-) '03.02- #110001-
YAS-62S(#C00001-) '06.10- #C00001-
YAS-62SE '92-'02
YAS-82Z '02-
YAS-82ZB '05-
YAS-82ZUL '05-
YAS-82ZS '02-
YAS-82ZF '07.07-
YAS-82ZULF '07.07-
YAS-855 '88-'02
YAS-855S '88-'02
YAS-875 '88-'02
YAS-875EX '02-
YAS-875EXS '02-
YAS-875S '88-'02



TENOR SAXOPHONES


Model Name Production Period Serial Number
AD-TS1 '02-
YTS-200AD '04-
YTS-100 '94-'02
YTS-21 '70-'80
YTS-23 '80-
YTS-25 '91-'01
YTS-275 '01-
YTS-275S '05-
YTS-32 '80-'91
YTS-32E '91-'02
YTS-475 '02-
YTS-52 '81-'94
YTS-52E '94-'02
YTS-575AL '02-
YTS-62 '80-'94
YTS-62(#010001-) '02.07- #010001-
YTS-62(#110001-) '03.02- #110001-
YTS-62(#C00001-) '06.10- #C00001-
YTS-62E '94-'02
YTS-62S '80-'94
YTS-62S(#010001-) '02.07- #010001-
YTS-62S(#110001-) '02- #110001-
YTS-62S(#C00001-) '06.10- #C00001-
YTS-62SE '94-'02
YTS-82Z '02- #110001-
YTS-82ZS '03-
YTS-82ZUL '05-
YTS-82ZF '07.07-
YTS-82ZULF '07.07-
YTS-875 '90-'02
YTS-875(#110001-) '02-'05
YTS-875EX '05-
YTS-875EXS '05-
YTS-875S '90-'02
YTS-875S(#110001-) '03-'02 #110001-



BARITONE SAXOPHONES


Model Name Production Period Serial Number
YBS-32 '83-'94
YBS-32E '94-
YBS-52 '84-'94
YBS-52E '94-
YBS-62 '83-'94
YBS-62E '94-

[utopial]

any info on how (brass vs plastic) thumbrests fit into those 5 categories?
mine is category 2 with a plastic unadjustable thumbrest.