Dating a YTS-21

[Arundo Donax]

My YTS-21 is the first sax I ever played. Even with the serial number, the factory could only tell me that they were made between 1971 and 1979.

So, my only hope of finding a more precise date is if someone has one that they bought new and also knew when they bought it.

My serial number is 0011xx, so I would think it's an early one.

Anyone else out there with a YTS-21 tenor?

[fluteypiccolosax]

who else thought this thread was about forming a relation wiht a sax??

...im crazy.

[martysax]

who else thought this thread was about forming a relation wiht a sax??

...im crazy.

I did! Actually I thought about some of the abbreviations in singles ads. Maybe "YTS-21" = Young Tempting Sledgehammer-21 years old!

[CiaranAudio]

I also thought this thread was about having an intimate relationship with a horn.

I was going to say PLOW HER!

[Mal 2]

I've had my YTS-21 (same general serial # range) since 1993, and she was an old nag even then. Sorry I can't be of more assistance, but I'll be watching because your horn and mine are kissing cousins.

Or at least half of mine, anyhow. If you need a part, ask and I'll see if I've used the spare yet.

[Stretch]

At teachers college we were told not to mess with student horns.

[Arundo Donax]

All you lovesick sax players :rolleyes:

Actually, I have formed an emotional attachment to my YTS-21. Before I first started taking lessons, this YTS-21 was the only one available to rent out of dozens (hundreds?) that were usually available. Apparently, I chose to rent at the time the schools were starting lessons and all the other tenor saxes were at the schools. Looking at this sax, its cosmetic condition suggested no student wanted to be seen with it: the lacquer was wearing off, it had dents everywhere, and the plate under the bow had a nasty looking solder job. However, the horn played well and my teacher said it was good. I'd long since known cosmetics have little to do with sound quality, as I've seen saxes that look like they came from the bottom of the ocean that sounded great. After a year of being with this sax, I thought I'd simply buy it at a good price, which I did, rather than let it go back to its lonely life on the back shelf of the music store. Even though I have another relatively new tenor sax, the YTS-21 is the one I play the most.


I've had my YTS-21 (same general serial # range) since 1993, and she was an old nag even then. Sorry I can't be of more assistance, but I'll be watching because your horn and mine are kissing cousins.

There's one particular area in the keyworks that's awfully clacky -- I'll take a photo of it and perhaps you would be able to tell me if that's just the way it was designed or whether I'm missing a felt pad or a cork.

[bubblegirlsax]

who else thought this thread was about forming a relation wiht a sax??

...im crazy.

I thought it was about finding the perfect soul mate in a sax. It's not crazy to love your sax and give it a name -- right? What about cooking it a meal or serenading it? :D


Although, now I think further I'm thinking you guys are seeing the bell for other uses ;)

[Mal 2]

There's one particular area in the keyworks that's awfully clacky -- I'll take a photo of it and perhaps you would be able to tell me if that's just the way it was designed or whether I'm missing a felt pad or a cork.

May I venture a guess that it's the low C#? If so, no you're not missing anything, but don't let that stop you from sticking a felt dot to the horn itself to stop the impact.



It's just a self-sticking felt dot, the kind that are intended to be stuck under lamps or table legs. That alteration was dead simple. The link from low B to low C# was not quite so simple and required sacrificing the low C key from a different YTS-21. Why it was omitted from the horn in the first place, I have no idea.

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

May I venture a guess that it's the low C#? If so, no you're not missing anything, but don't let that stop you from sticking a felt dot to the horn itself to stop the impact.



It's just a self-sticking felt dot, the kind that are intended to be stuck under lamps or table legs. That alteration was dead simple. The link from low B to low C# was not quite so simple and required sacrificing the low C key from a different YTS-21. Why it was omitted from the horn in the first place, I have no idea.

What a low B to low C link? I see it in the pic., but what is it for?

[Graftonsax]

Make sure you do not put out on the first practice. It will never respect you after that. :D

[bfahle]

What a low B to low C link? I see it in the pic., but what is it for?

The small bridge that might seem to close the B key actually works the other way around. It is welded to the B key and pushes the little lever that is attached, closing the C# key whenever the B key is activated. This keeps you from opening the C# key accidentally by way of a bent table key (poorly designed on the YTS-21 and 23), or by way of a clumsy pinky.

[Enviroguy]

My YTS-21 is the first sax I ever played. Even with the serial number, the factory could only tell me that they were made between 1971 and 1979.

So, my only hope of finding a more precise date is if someone has one that they bought new and also knew when they bought it.

My serial number is 0011xx, so I would think it's an early one.

Anyone else out there with a YTS-21 tenor?

You need to take a cue from my teenage son. He's dating a GIRL that plays a YTS-21. See, it's good to have a sax-playing dad to keep you youngsters straight on these thing. ;)

[bariman87]

who else thought this thread was about forming a relation wiht a sax??

...im crazy.

my sax is like Britney spears. used to be cool, but now its bald and icky.:(

[bubblegirlsax]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with bald chicks :D

[Mal 2]

The small bridge that might seem to close the B key actually works the other way around. It is welded to the B key and pushes the little lever that is attached, closing the C# key whenever the B key is activated. This keeps you from opening the C# key accidentally by way of a bent table key (poorly designed on the YTS-21 and 23), or by way of a clumsy pinky.

It also allows a much faster slide of the pinky from C# to B (or Bb), because I only have to slide far enough to press B. The C# can stay pressed also, because the key only ALLOWS the C# to open -- it does not FORCE it open. Now the only horn I have lacking this feature is my Dolnet bari, and I think I have a way to make that happen as well (though I'll sketch it and let a pro do it -- I'll happily hack on $200 horns, but not so much on $2,000 horns).

I did not equip it with an adjustment screw like the linkage on a YTS-32, but it's adequate. If it really needed an adjustment screw, I'd have given it one (and still can).

[Arundo Donax]

May I venture a guess that it's the low C#? If so, no you're not missing anything, but don't let that stop you from sticking a felt dot to the horn itself to stop the impact.

My low C# is pretty quiet - the mechanism under the left-hand spatula keys is sufficiently padded so that the C# key makes no clacking noise, just the sound of the pad closing.

What does make noise is G#. You can see a white colored pad on the key and when it raises, it comes into contact with a small screw. The pad just isn't effective enough in damping the sound and it's very annoying. During actual play, I really can't hear it however.

You can see another very small white pad on the lever below the key; that one's not very effective either.

[Mal 2]

Hmm, the link bar on my horn (which came from the old one, s/n 0016xx) doesn't have adjustment screws, it had corks glued to it. Now it has just one -- the one for the Bb link -- and on the G# I have glued a small but fairly thick piece of cork directly to the keycup. It's a lot less prone to getting knocked off than a cork attached to the link bar, though it does get scorched if I need to float a pad on that key. I solved that by covering the cork with a thin layer of aluminum, which also makes it nearly invisible.

The heat shrink tube over the bar is how I make the final adjustment. Anywhere from zero to three layers are reasonable. In this case, with the new pads, I require two. The adjustment to the Bb is made possible because the cork is not square, I've ground it at just a hint of an angle. By rotating the bar, I can change the effective thickness of the cork and control the timing.

I'm thinking the link bar with adjustment screws is a later enhancement. I may eventually fabricate one, it's not a very complex piece of machinery.

http://mal-2.com/sax/yts21-06.JPG

I also thought it would be neat to show what a "chopper" horn this really is. All the blue-tinted parts are from my old tenor, and all the red-tinted parts from the "new" one. Since the part I really needed was the main body tube, the horn as a whole bears the "new" serial number.

The neck could change, I haven't decided which one I like better (both necks are fine, and I'm not sure there's a significant difference between them). Also I used the wrong color on the ring that connects body and bell but didn't feel like fixing it.

All the pads are new except for side C and low C -- the pad set I bought included pads slightly too large for those two keys, and those two were not in bad condition at all (surprising for a low C pad, especially since it's not the "right" one for this bow). Anyone considering a chop job like this should assume every key not on its original tube will require a new pad.

http://mal-2.com/sax/yts21-frankenhorn.jpg

[Arundo Donax]

I'm thinking the link bar with adjustment screws is a later enhancement. I may eventually fabricate one, it's not a very complex piece of machinery.


My YTS-21 (s/n 0011xx) is dated slightly earlier than yours, so perhaps they removed it early in production?

Below is a more detailed photo of the screw and also two photos that show how my C# bar is padded with cork - it does a good job of keeping it quiet.

[Mal 2]

My YTS-21 (s/n 0011xx) is dated slightly earlier than yours, so perhaps they removed it early in production?

Below is a more detailed photo of the screw and also two photos that show how my C# bar is padded with cork - it does a good job of keeping it quiet.

The G# should have a curved post sticking out of the bottom of the spatula key, which in turn should have a nice thick cork on it.

You can see it in this picture: http://mal-2.com/sax/yts21-02.JPG

The other end (that actually releases the G# pad) should float a millimeter or two above the horn and not touch it. If that's the "clank", you need a thicker cork on the G#, or a piece of felt glued onto the existing cork, or something similar.

It looks to me like the corks for the link bar have Teflon toppers. This is good in the sense that Teflon is not very compressible (though it is fairly elastic -- which is why it's all dented now) but when it's that thick, it's also not particularly quiet. You may just need to replace the corks and the toppers together. Another option would be to add a bit of cork to the end of each screw, if you have enough room in the adjustment mechanism to accommodate it, but that probably won't last as long.