mouth pain, non playing and depression...

[stan30]

hello everybody,

i read the sotw forum for two years at least now. I've posted one message one year ago but then I changed my id because I couldn't find what was my password and apparently my request for having a new one didn't work ( or I did something wrong). Anyway, here I am !

Briefly summarized I started the clarinet at the age of 9 and switched to tenor at 16. Two years ago I started the soprano, basicaly not playing the tenor anymore because I felt really confortable with the voice of the soprano and wanted to avoid a feeling of rambling through the same stuff over and over on the tenor. I always had period of intensive autodidact work (like 2 months) were I would be organized in my work followed by period of inactivity. But the more productive intensive and serious work was on the soprano. April and may 2007 to be precise i played like 5 hours a day, somtimes much more. I already had teeths related problems at this time but I felt they didn't really caused problems in my playing. I have 3 teeths missing from the bottom part of the mouth ( excuse my english with which I struggle a little). At this time I always began my sessions with harmonics ( steve lacy and liebman's exercices) which could be a little painfull. And then I was doing long tones for almost an hour ( often mixed with some kind of mental relaxation), before to start with harmonic basics and so on.

Ok. Then i went to my dentist. He would pull out the remaining root of one
of my missing teeth. He told me that I could'nt play for 3 days but then it got infected and the 3 days became 10. Then I tried to play again and everything seemed all over the place, I couln't do my overtones, my sound was awfull. I tried and tried again but gradually i got discouraged and stopped. I feel that I can play now and then but not seriously as I was doing. I have a strange feeling in my mouth. If I play just 10 minutes I have this feeling of fatigue in my mouth for 2 days ! It feels a little like a gencive infection ( i now because I had some) but apparently it's not. The feeling is hard to explain as it's not always exactly the same. It goes in the jaw, it goes in the cheeks. I feel that when playing I cant control my embouchure muscles, I'm biting and also my botom teeths are hurting my bottom lips (even if i got them softened by my dentist) . Needless to say I went to numerous dentists but they never founf anything. Some specialized doctor said that this shock ( the teeth's root pulled out) disturbed what I learned and that i have to learn again the basics of tone production within this new configuration.
Oh and now I have a something in metal with 3 false teeths on that i wear all the time but i don't think it's good for playing because there's a metal part that goes behind the bottom teeths in the mouth. I want to play so bad and I can't, this is now really depressing me. I have to add that at a certain point playing tenor with a metal otto link 9 star was a little less difficult ( normally I played an ebonite 6 star... but it's true that I went on more open mouthpieces, strangely, on the soprano - i'm playing an ebonite link 7). Right now I also have a false part ( that did my dentist) of a front upper teeth that is gone and It's possible that I have a beginning of infection so I take some medication waiting to see him.

I'm so sorry for all this long tread about me and my problems, and there are which are much harder, but I did a lot of searchs in the forum and never saw an answer... I would like to add that this site is great and that I learned a lot reading it. So, if anyone have any advice for me, I'll take it with great regards !

ps : I'm really sorry for my poor english... :(

[DanPerezSax]

I don't know anything about muscles and medicine, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

It sounds to me like maybe your doctor was onto something when he said you'd have to retrain your muscles. If the interior of your mouth has changed, it may be true that the same mouthpiece that worked for you before no longer will be right for you. Also, if your muscles are "starting over," well, treat yourself like a beginner: get an easier blowing setup, like a soft reed and a more closed mouthpiece, and practice for shorter lengths of time until you can build up to more. This may be very frustrating, but basically, it sounds like your mouth is different, so it stands to reason that you'd have to change the way you play considerably.

P.S. Your English looks better than that of some natives!

[Saxland]

For years I was misdiagnosed by a slew of doctors and dentists. Turns out that all my teeth are in the wrong position, even though on x rays it shows a good match for upper and lower teeth to meet. The problem was that the condoyle in my right jaw was getting crushed. Since treatment started, my jaw has shifted two millimeters, and it relaxed the muscles that I needed to play.

I found a dentist that is also a professional trumpet player, and gives lectures at the local university and collages music programs about teeth and playing.

There are doctors out there which can help you, but my solution started with a trumpet player/dentist. First one to say to me exactly what the problem was inside 45 minutes and corfirm it with objective standard testing any dentist could confirm, not just an opinion.

Ask you dentist to measure your teeth position in relation to your jaw position. He will probbably have to make casts of your teeth. Phone up the woodwind and brass players of orchestras and ask them who their dentist is.

[stan30]

Hi,

Thank you so much guys for your support, it has really touched me... Danperez I have listened to your music on your myspace page and it's great, many thanks for stepping into my post ! Saxland, I'll bring your post to my dentist on my appointement, unfortunately I don't know of any musician's dentist here so I'll just go with my regular... But anyway I'll ask him if he knows of someone ( note : I would nonetheless opt preferably for a professional dentist who is also an amateur musician than the reverse ! :shock:)

All the best

[Saxland]

Are you in the U.S.A.?

[stan30]

No, I'm in Spain, Barcelona to be precise...

[Brian H]

Hi Stan30,

I'm no dentist, but I know that whenever you have a needle - for example prior to tooth extraction, there is a risk that nerves my be damaged in the process.

I wonder if this may have happened in your case. Given that you can still play, then even if it is the case the damage may not be too serious.

I suggest simply persevere - paying great attention to correct embouchure and don't over do it - so that you patiently build up again the muscle control.

If the issue perseveres then you may want to seek advice from a neurologist who should be able to diagnose accurately if in fact there has been any damage and if so the extent and then the best way to recovery.

It is possible that the best treatment may in fact be rest, to allow full recovery??

I'm no Dr - so if this is really important to you (and that's what I'm reading) then it might be best to obtain professional advice?

[stan30]

hey guys,

You know what ? I'm working on the piano ! And the first thing is, even if i'm really bad at it, I enjoy it like crazy ! The second thing is : It's improving a lot my sax playing - away from my mouth's problems that unfortunately are the same... Playing the piano give me, when playingsax, a whole different approch, it's really something i would advise to everyone ! Still if anyone has some advise on the specifics problemes that I have on the sax... I would be glad !

thanks everyone, and enjoy the music !

ps : I) began also the sopranino, and that is a hell of an instrument. I wonder why it's not used a lot more...

[thock2]

Has anybodies tounge ever bled after playing for 1 hr? its happened tons of times, especially after playing w/ a new reed. My band directors have never heard of it and my peers obviously havn't had a run in with this problem

[toughtenor]

retraining your muscles is hard but it can be done. I got mugged, put up a fight:x and got beaten unconcious ( on the jaw) ,resulting in a concussion of the brain and damage to some nerves in the jaw on the left (front) side of my mouth. And this all happened weeks before an important exam in the conservatory....
I had to cancel the exam but rescheduled it way too soon, As soon as I could play again I noticed little flaws and more technical problems then before.
Turns out the scar tissue left part of my lip numb and uncontrollable, It took time but I managed to retrain the muscles to overcome the problem.

Still have to be careful not cut myself shaving though:D