Selmer ligature - silver vs. brass

[wteare]

I'm just a sax player's mom, but I'm trying to buy him the Selmer S-80 C* mouthpiece his teacher has requested. I've found it with and without the cap and ligature. For a new one, the best deal we've found is on the Silver-plated Selmer Paris model.

What's the difference between the Silver-plated and the brass, just color?

Thanks!

Wendy

[gary]

Hi Wendy! The type of metal will make no difference for your son. Buy the one that looks coolest for him and cheapest for you. ;)

[wteare]

That's what I was hoping to hear, thanks! - Wendy

[Dave Dolson]

I'll second Gary . . . I have Selmer stock metal ligs in both silver-plate and lacquered brass. There are absolutely no differences among them except for the finish. I match mine to the finish on the horn I'm playing, not for performance results. DAVE

[mangojango]

Does Selmer make a silver plated lig/cap for hard rubber mouthpieces? I thought the silver plated ligs/caps were for their metal mouthpiece line. If so, then by all means, they're likely identical other than color.

[wteare]

All I know is I found a website that is advertising a Selmer S-80 C* tenor mouthpiece with Silver-plated Selmer Paris Ligature and Cap right below the brass one.

Wendy

[Dave Dolson]

My Selmer metal silver soprano lig came with a new silver Serie III soprano I bought several years ago. I kept it when I sold the horn. It fits Selmer Super Session HR soprano pieces.

My silver Selmer alto piece has been with me for years - I've forgotten how it came to me. It too fits all of my alto HR pieces. DAVE

[zxcvbnm]

IMO, I don't like the C* for beginning sax players. They are very inconsistent, and if you buy one without playing it first, there is a good chance it will be a bad one. Did his band teacher or private teacher recommend it? Often band teachers will have a bandwagon mentality and recommend the C* because everyone else uses one (they also don't encourage good breath support and often sound bad in the hands of a beginner). The Vandoren AL3 is a much better choice No, I'm not trying to sell one, I'm speaking from my experiences ;). LOL sorry for messing with the thread, just trying to help.

[Dave Dolson]

Let's see . . . teacher, who knows the student, recommends a C*. Someone who doesn't know the student and who has a personal opinion about Selmer mouthpieces that doesn't square with MY experience, recommends against a C* because they are inconsistent.

Interesting.

Why would anyone who doesn't know this student make a recommendation that is subjective . . . a total shot in the dark? Especially based on a general opinion about Selmer mouthpieces (well, at least about a C*, but if they truly are inconsistent, which in my experience they are not, one would have to conclude that all Selmer mouthpieces are inconsistent, which in my experience they are not).

Wendy, I think you should follow your son's teacher's advice. DAVE

[zxcvbnm]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone. But it's been my experience that C*s are inconsistent (I've played a lot), and it's also been my experience that (if this is a band teacher) band teachers recommend the C* when they don't know much about sax. If this is a private teacher, you can disregard what I said and listen to them though.

[wteare]

Sorry - I didn't mean to spark a debate! This is my son's band teacher who made the recommendation, but she also gives a lot of individual attention to him... so I guess she's sort of between a band teacher and a private teacher. I'll be sure to talk with his private teacher about this on Saturday.

I really do appreciate all the advice! I'm learning so much from these forums!

Wendy

[zxcvbnm]

Just make sure your son plays the mouthpiece and likes it before you buy it. (BTW is the band teacher a sax player?)

[wteare]

His teacher plays clarinet and sax, so at least she knows a little more than some band teachers. We really do respect her opinion. Not that its saying much, but she certainly knows more than we do!

Thanks - Wendy

[gary]

IMO, I don't like the C* for beginning sax players. They are very inconsistent, and if you buy one without playing it first, there is a good chance it will be a bad one. Did his band teacher or private teacher recommend it? Often band teachers will have a bandwagon mentality and recommend the C* because everyone else uses one (they also don't encourage good breath support and often sound bad in the hands of a beginner). The Vandoren AL3 is a much better choice No, I'm not trying to sell one, I'm speaking from my experiences ;). LOL sorry for messing with the thread, just trying to help.
Wendy -

- C*s are fine for beginners. I usually recommend keeping the stock mpcs that come with the horn and if one wants a step-up mpc, I usually have them get a Morgan Protone. But if a student walked through the door with a Selmer C*, I would never tell them they made a mistake and should trade it for another mpc.

-your chances are better that you'll get a bad C* than a good one? Really? Not in my experience. I've had some Selmer mpcs that seem to play better than others, but I have never gotten a bad one. They're relatively consistent quality mpcs.

- a Selmer C* doesn't encourage good breath support? Where the does this come from? How does, for that matter, any MOR mpc encourage bad breath support? Sorry, that's just crazy to me.

- the Vandoren mpcs are excellent. Having said that, I have owned and tried several types of Vandoren mpcs and keep coming back to my Selmer. Apples and Oranges, not better or worse.

Anyone is welcome to correct me, of course. If not, I hope this helps keep you from going astray. :D

[zxcvbnm]

LOL I got the breath support from J.Max's classical mpcs post. But they are a bit too freeblowing for me. The C* are good mouthpieces, and definitely better than stock, but I've played a lot of bad ones. These are the most commonly used mouthpieces in the world, and there's probably some factory in Asia churning these out on a conveyor belt. A good C* is going to be pretty good, but I don't think it's the best mouthpiece for a beginner. I find the AL3 to be 1. a lot easier for a student to sound good on, 2. very consistent (I've never played a bad one), and 3. have the right amount or resistance/free blowingness for a student. Anyways that's just my opinion, and I know both Gary and Dave are a lot older and have more experience than me, so feel free to listen to them over me. Just wanted to give a little advice, and of course make sure your son plays the mouthpiece before buying (Try multiple examples of the same mouthpiece also).

[PlayTheHead]

When I started playing, I had no idea that there were different mouthpieces. I used the Selmer that came with my horn.

Experimenting with reeds was the first step I took at changing my equipment, and that was after a year of playing. Developing tone is much later in the stage of the student.

I would hesitate to get a young student caught up in the equipment. It would be too overwhelming and might put out the fire. My Bundy II and the Selmer mpc were all I needed to learn the saxophone. At the student level, the only difference between a lacquer Bundy or a Solid Silver Selmer Series III is the color (much more green).

Same goes for the ligature and cap of the Selmer mouthpiece in question.

But my extra 2 cents on an "expensive" mouthpiece for a student is get a Meyer 5, have a good refacer clean it up and get the silver lig and cap because silver looks cooler (as in hip) on black.

[Martinman]

If the C* really does encourage poor breath support, then maybe the private teacher should just spend 5 minutes showing the guy how to support right...it isn't that hard...

I basically started on a C* and had poor breath support, but my support wasn't any worse than everyone else who was using Yamaha 4c's. A beginer will probably have poor breath support no matter what mouthpiece they use unless someone tells them how to support properly.

[wteare]

He's not really a beginner. He's been playing sax for almost 5 years now, and tenor specifically for 2 of those. So far he's been using the school's loaner tenor along with a basic mouthpiece. We just bought him a YTS-52 and his teacher suggested we go ahead and upgrade the mouthpiece on that to the S-80 C*. He also got an Otto Link with his Yamaha which he started using for jazz band, and he really likes that, too. - Wendy

[Pete Thomas]

Hang on a minute. He likes the Otto Link? Why not stick with that? can you tell us what tip opening (ie the number on the side which will be something like 5 or 6 or 6* or 7*).

Fair enough, the teacher may want a different mouthpiece for classical and a C* is a bog standard classical mouthpiece, but if the Link he likes has a rather larger tip opening (that's the distance between the reed tip and tip of mouthpiece) and he gets used to playing that for jazz, he might find switching to the C* a bit confusing. After 5 years he's experienced enough now to be going to try things out for himself IMO, if you can get to a store where there are a number of mouthpieces to try, then take him. But first please talk to the teacher and make sure the teacher knows he plays the Link and is happy with it.

Oh yes, everyone is right, don't worry about what colour the ligature is as long as it fits the mouthpiece.

[BKRMON]

Interesting thread.

My son's private teacher asked me to buy a Selmer S-80 C*. He had a better sound with the Selmer vs the stock Armstrong. Later on, I bought a better ligature (BG Super Revelation), as well. Now I just need to find him a good tenor sax. ;)

[BariSaxzinger]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone. But it's been my experience that C*s are inconsistent (I've played a lot), and it's also been my experience that (if this is a band teacher) band teachers recommend the C* when they don't know much about sax. If this is a private teacher, you can disregard what I said and listen to them though.

I have bought about 12 C* (SATB)and only 3 played ok. The best one still dosnt play as well as an AL3 in my opinion. I think they are very inconsitant as well.

Thats my two cents

[Kini]

His teacher plays clarinet and sax, so at least she knows a little more than some band teachers. We really do respect her opinion. Not that its saying much, but she certainly knows more than we do!

Thanks - Wendy
Wendy, Most band directors who don't know anything about sax will recommend the C* because it has been "the standard" for a long time. The tricky question is: is the band teacher a knowledgable sax player, or a clarinet player who picked up sax? (in that case they may be knowledgeable or not) - you would have to evaluate that if possible.

What you could do is purchase a few mouthpieces on trial, and try them in front of the band director or a sax teacher. Keep the one you like best, and send the rest back for a refund.

The issue about C*'s depends on the player's experience. I tend to agree that C*'s can lead to problems, unless the student has a good teacher to help them develop breath support. The C* does have a little more resistance than the AL3.

SO, you could order 2 each of a C* and AL3 and pick the best. There are lot of mail order places to try, but most here have used wwbw.com and prowinds.com.

Good luck

[gary]

I have bought about 12 C* (SATB)and only 3 played ok. The best one still dosnt play as well as an AL3 in my opinion. I think they are very inconsitant as well. Thats my two cents
Wait a minute. You're only 18 and you've bought twelve C*s. What the heck for?

[BariSaxzinger]

Wait a minute. You're only 18 and you've bought twelve C*s. What the heck for?

Yes I am only 18 and Ive had 1 Sop, 1 Tenor, 1 Bari, And 9 Alto.
1 C* destroyed in Pep Band when an Idiot stepped on my horn(I think the best one)
2 Massacred by my guard in marching band
1 Knocked off my stand
1 Given to me
2 I bought and still have
1 Stolen
1 Gave to a kid awhile back who just started

[gary]

Yes I am only 18 and Ive had 1 Sop, 1 Tenor, 1 Bari, And 9 Alto.
1 C* destroyed in Pep Band when an Idiot stepped on my horn(I think the best one)
2 Massacred by my guard in marching band
1 Knocked off my stand
1 Given to me
2 I bought and still have
1 Stolen
1 Gave to a kid awhile back who just started
LOL. That's funny. School can be hazardous, wot?! :shock:

[BariSaxzinger]

LOL. That's funny. School can be hazardous, wot?! :shock:

Yeah a little. But it now sucks because I dont even use them....