Unisons on Ebay

[Sigmund451]

Ive been seening smatterings of these horns on ebay and I have been wondering about anyone who has owned or play tested these horns. Seems odd to see such new horns on ebay and especially at the fairly low price some of them have been listed for without reserve. NOTE: Im not trying to start a Goodson slam. Im just curious about the horns and why they seem to be listing rather cheaply? Ideas?

[sw3119]

There seem to be two unisons on ebay right now.

Both being sold by the same user.

I looked at his feedback and he seems to sell alot of
sax stuff. Mostly reeds, mpc.

He has had Sugal and Canonball horns for sale at equaly low
prices.

Maybe he owns a music store and is selling trade-ins?

[Dr G]

Im not trying to start a Goodson slam. Im just curious about the horns and why they seem to be listing rather cheaply? Ideas?

I don't see why this could be misconstrued as a Goodson slam - none of the horns at eBay are "Steve Goodson" models. They are just Unisons. 8)

[Jerry K.]

All Taiwanese horns still have a relatively low resale value. I suspect that this will improve over time. The only new horns with decent resale value are from the Big 4. Even then, you're better off buying a good used horn.

[goodsax]

As an amateur, I've played Unison's top of the line sop and alto (non SG) and I think they have an equivalent quality feel, look and sound to other improving Taiwanese saxes like later model Antiguas and Jupiters, both of which I've played (Antigua 582LQ sop and 889SG Jupiter tenor).
IMHO, all these horns are demonstrating the improving nature of Taiwan sax manufacturing quality, at least for these brands. (I haven't played a Cannonball, so can't comment about them.)

I still own an Antigua Winds 582LQ sop and have a Jupiter 889SG silver-plated tenor coming this week. Regretfully, I let a Unison S300 alto slip away in an unsuccessful effort to find something better in the same price range. I also owned a Unison S100GG soprano for awhile and I believe it was every bit has good as the Antigua Winds 582LQ, maybe better. I know the unison was nearly double the price of the Antigua.

FWIW,
8)

[Sigmund451]

Ah, thats the answer, I didnt realize they werent the Goodson model. DOH! Maybe I should change my name to Homer :idea:

[Bill08690]

goodsax-

Please let us know how the Jupiter compares with the Antigua.

[Harri Rautiainen]

Ah, thats the answer, I didnt realize they werent the Goodson model. ...This time a SG model alto by SOTW member Fun Bun:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16232&item=3724165 012

[goodsax]

Looks like a fairly good deal at this point But, three days to go.

I noticed I didn't respond to the request made earlier in this post. However, I would have been comparing altos to sopranos, or sopranos to tenors. I didn't have two same brand altos, tenors, or sop's at the same time, so could not make a valid comparison between Jupiters and Antiguas for a given sax type.

[hornimus]

Yes, Sam Bass Music had a Goodson tenor on ebay up until a few days ago, new. No bidders .....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16234&item=3723425 110


Fun Bun ended his alto auction early to sell to the highest bidder, at just above 1K.

[Morry]

So far, resale value on these horns seems to be less than spectacular.

[Randall]

Maybe those guys at SaxTrolls are having an effect on the market?! lol!
There is some REALLY funny stuff over there!
No, there is a LOT of really funny stuff over there!

[hornimus]

Randall, thanx for the heads-up! :lol:

[Morry]

It's funny to see all the posts, even on SG's site about parts just falling off the SG Unison horns.

[Stacey]

So far, resale value on these horns seems to be less than spectacular.

Resale value on pretty much ALL Taiwanese horns is still less than spectacular at this point. For me, as a tenor buyer a few months ago, I just had to decide if I was buying a horn for resale or buying it to keep forever and ever. I've owned my alto for 21 years now, which is a good indication that saxes may come in through my door, but they almost never leave. In the end, I bought a Cannonball tenor manufactured in Taiwan, and never looked back. I got a GREAT deal on it, but still couldn't resell it for that price; fortunately, I don't have any plans to ever sell it.

If I were buying a horn with resale value in mind, I'd pretty much have to stick with a Selmer, Keilwerth, Yamaha, or Yanagisawa. But I also couldn't buy one of THOSE new for $1700.

[Dave Dolson]

Stacey: Nor could you sell a used big-four horn for what you put in it. Folks looking for a new/newer big-four horn are most likely looking for a huge price break, or else they'd go the Internet discounters and buy brand new.

I agree about buying horns and rarely moving them out. I buy 'em to play 'em, not for re-sale.

Is resale a factor to consider? Yes, but it takes years for inflation to overcome the new-horn market. In my opinion, it is only the vintage horns that have increased in their dollar amount since sold new. And when considering inflation, many of the vintage horns are just breaking when sold. DAVE

[altoist]

I can't speak about the quality of the Goodson horns, since I've never tried one, but both the
intermediate and pro (S300) Unison horns seem pretty high quality to me. I'd say the
Taiwanese Big 4 are Jupiter, Antigua, Unison, and Cannonball. I actually like the
horns of the latter two slightly better, but their distribution policies stink.

What I'd like to see in the future are double arms on the bell keys, like the Yani 991, and
some solution to the sticky G#, either via non stick pads or some additional mechanism.
It looks like Kessler Music is addressing the first problem with their Solist line, and when I finally get a tenor I'll likely go through them. Supposedly the B&S Medusa has some solution to the sticky G#, but I haven't seen these horns. Isn't there some Dutch company that
claims to have a stick-proof pad?

The Goodson horns also claim a stick proof G#, but I'm a risk averse and very Internet savvy consumer. My perusal of the net suggests that something fishy is going on, and I'd prefer not to get bamboozled. If the horn is great, I guess we'll all find out one day.

[Dave Dolson]

I've only experienced fatal-stickiness on a Serie III soprano. All of my new altos (A992, Unison S300, and Ref 54) play all night without stickiness.

My S300 Unison has the fit-'n'-finish AND the playability of a horn three times more pricey. DAVE

[singlereed]

Just as an interested observer (there was no practical way for me to play test a SG), it all seems to have fizzled out a bit. I have to say I think its a bit sad because there was a genuine will to make something really innovative. I'd have liked to have seen the designs produced in the hands of a proven 'name' maker, maybe B&S or Keilwerth would have been the guys to do it. I have nothing at all against Taiwanese instruments per se, but I'm not sure they will ever really break into 'pro' territory and stay there. Unfortunately I think the SGs might slip into obscurity along with lots of other good ideas.

[altoist]

I've only experienced fatal-stickiness on a Serie III soprano. All of my new altos (A992, Unison S300, and Ref 54) play all night without stickiness.

My S300 Unison has the fit-'n'-finish AND the playability of a horn three times more pricey. DAVE

Dave,
Perhaps your body chemistry is such that whatever is causing the stickiness for many people does not occur with you. I've caused stickiness in the G# (sorry for the typo where I wrote C#) in every new horn I've tested. It's not fatal, else I'd be composing this in the hereafter, and since I'm not a gigging pro, it isn't embarrassing, but it definitely occurs, even when I take all the precautions (don't eat or drink before, keep your teeth brushed, clean the pad, etc., etc.) It occurs with an A991 and an S300BG. Forget "all night", I bet I could take your horns (assuming you haven't repadded) and get the G# to stick after 2 hours of blowing.

It could be that as you have much more experience than I do, you don't cause as much fluid to pass. My fingers are starting to get wet after about half an hour.

I agree that the S300 is a very well made horn, and, what's more, it sounds great.
That's really what drew me to saxes in the first place, the sound. Now if only one of
these saxes would make me sound like Paul Desmond (my favorite) or Johnny Hodges
(who I know you like) my search for the perfect horn would be over. If they could do that,
I'd even take a pink and yellow sax!

Singlereed, you're right. It would be wonderful if there were more innovation. I hear Jim Scmidt has a 9 year waiting list for his horns. Now *those* are innovative.

[Dave Dolson]

Altoist: Well, I have experienced sticky pads, but they were easily remedied with a $100.00 bill, or Yamaha powdered pad-papers, or Gig Dust. Once treated, they did not stick, at least while I was playing. It's always funny when a saxophone player wipes his pads with a $100.00 during a gig!! I never failed to get a laugh and band/audience interaction with that bit.

By fatal, I meant only that nothing fixed the problem (two pads on the Serie III; low C# and worse, G#) - the horn was fatally flawed in that regard. I agree that G# (and to a lesser extent) low C# are problematic.

I rarely eat just before or during a gig, and never drink soft drinks or other sugary drinks on a job. And booze? Not much, if any when I play. DAVE

[Hurling Frootmig]

The flat spring that Goodson uses is an interesting solution to helping G sharp not stick. I have had my tech do that modification on a horn I used to own and it worked very well.

[altoist]

Dave,
Humorously enough, I just went out to blow for 40 min on my lunch break and my low C# started sticking on the S300!

I have some Yamaha pad cleaning papers, but they don't appear to be powdered, in fact they seem rather smooth. I use them, and they stop the sticking for a short while. I'm reluctant to try more gunk on my pads. I've tried cleaning with naptha (lighter fluid) and that's also a temporary fix.

I tried using Clubs (the rolling papers without the glue) as a cheaper alternative to those Yamaha papers, but they tear easily.

$100 bills huh? That must be pretty funny. Do you tear them up and throw them away after you've cleaned the pad?

I also don't eat, drink, booze it up, do drugs, wrestle pigs, handle firearms, have sex with prostitutes, pray for forgiveness, meditate, blaspheme, or anything like that, before I play the sax. Afterwards, well.... :D

[Hurling Frootmig]

Gigdust works well for me on my TH&C when the G sharp starts to stick. The crud patches also help. I think you could find a bigger sized firearm cleaning patch and it would work for you.

[altoist]

Hurling,
I've used the larger Hoppe's gun cleaning patches and I don't think they're any better than the Yamaha pad cleaning patches. The problem stops for a short while. I haven't tried the Yamaha patches to see if they're any good at cleaning the guns though. :-)

I guess that, just like with shooting, I have to achieve a state of mind in which the cleaning of the instrument becomes the more important activity than the actual intended use.

Seriously, I think the ultimate siolution for me would be to repad with some form of non-stick patch, or have my tech do some surgery and add one of those mechanisms
to the G#. The C# sticking is infrequent enough that cleaning is an acceptable solution.

[Dave Dolson]

Altoist: The Yamaha pad-papers come in a tear-out packet much like those silcone eye-glass cleaning papers. The Yamaha pads are indeed powdered (lightly so) and the instructions advise on how to use them. The side with feint printing on them is the non-powdered side.

No, I don't tear up the bills when I finish with my pads . . . nor do I light my cigars with them (being a non-smoker, etc., etc.). DAVE

[altoist]

Altoist: The Yamaha pad-papers come in a tear-out packet much like those silcone eye-glass cleaning papers. The Yamaha pads are indeed powdered (lightly so) and the instructions advise on how to use them. The side with feint printing on them is the non-powdered side.

No, I don't tear up the bills when I finish with my pads . . . nor do I light my cigars with them (being a non-smoker, etc., etc.). DAVE

Thanks for the tip about the papers. The papers I am using are the Yamaha Cleaning Papers, which aren't powdered. The instructions on those say to use the powdered papers if the pads stick. I'll need to find them and give them a try!

You really should take up smoking, or at least fake smoking. Imagine the laugh (or gasp) you'd get from the crowd when you spark up that c-note.
Of course, if you're married, your wife might just wrap your horn around your head too.

[saxgirl9]

I play a unison horn and im not very happy with it. It doesn't work very well if it is used all the time, it practically fell apart on me while i used it during a musical. I had my low C key fall off and various smaller pieces fall off as well. I have had this problem with both my tenor and alto and I handle my horns well. I previously played on a yamaha and I never had any problems with pieces falling off before. :shock:

[saxgirl9]

I also don't eat, drink, booze it up, do drugs, wrestle pigs, handle firearms, have sex with prostitutes, pray for forgiveness, meditate, blaspheme, or anything like that, before I play the sax. Afterwards, well.... :DHahaha..sorry I just had to quote that because that is the funniest thing I ever have read...

[goodsax]

I play a unison horn and im not very happy with it.

Just out of curiosity, which model Unison do you play that has caused you this trouble?

Thanks,

[saxgirl9]

My alto is a a s300

[goodsax]

My alto is a a s300

I'm sure I didn't play my S300 as much as you play yours, and I didn't have it very long. That was in my investigative period when I was doing my best to try every kind of alto sax, and some tenors and sop's, I could win on eBay after selling each to by the next. I thought the S300 was a decent playing, solidly constructed alto that also looked good. But, as I said, I didn't have it long and didn't put it to a true hard-use test. I'm actually a little disappointed you experienced all those problems with yours.

[saxgirl9]

Yeah I am disappointed with it as well, I've had it less than a year too and because it doesn't hold up well, I am already looking to purchase a new horn.

[Stacey]

...What I'd like to see in the future are double arms on the bell keys...

...and some solution to the sticky G#...

My Cannonball tenor has double arms on the bell keys, so perhaps that design feature is starting to become more common.

And I'm a little embarrassed not to remember this offhand, but doesn't the Cannonball (yes, the model I OWN but don't remember) have something to address the G# issue? I was thinking it has something in the mechanism to keep it from sticking, but I've never really paid close attention to that mechanism, since it, um, never sticks. Anyone recall for certain?

Stacey

[altoist]

Saxgirl9,
If you had your horn for less than a year, bought new, and it is falling apart, you should be able to get help where you bought it. I haven't had such problems with my S300. I'll keep my fingers crossed. I really like the sound of the S300s. What are the serial nos of your horns? My alto is
202333. I wonder if there was a bad batch? If you're going to ditch the
Unisons, give Yanagisawa a try.


Stacey,
I didn't notice anything special about the G# on CB BB altos I test played. They were nice, but too expensive IMO for Taiwan built horns.

[goodsax]

As a follow-up to my earlier post in this thread, I'm about to acquire another Unison S300, but this time a satin gold plated beauty with gold keys. If my experience even comes close to saxgirl9's, I'll be back here bemoaning my bad luck. However, always the optimist, I'm anticipating maximum playing enjoyment with this new horn.

[Stacey]

I didn't notice anything special about the G# on CB BB altos I test played.

I finally remembered to look at my CB tenor's G# as compared to my other horns. It is different.

My other horns pretty much leave the G# pad to succeed/fail on its own when you press the G# key, but my CB has kind of a "fork" design: When the G# key is not pressed, the usual arm presses down on the G# pad's foot to hold the G# pad closed; however, when the G# key is pressed, that same arm also has a flat spring that presses upwards on the G# pad. This looks to me as though it would make it VERY hard for the G# pad to stick closed when you want it to open.

Disclaimer: I'm no mechanical engineer, and in fact I have pretty godawful mechanical skills, so I reserve the right to be totally incorrect in my analysis of this or any other mechanism. :?

[John Holifield]

As a follow-up to my earlier post in this thread, I'm about to acquire another Unison S300, but this time a satin gold plated beauty with gold keys. If my experience even comes close to saxgirl9's, I'll be back here bemoaning my bad luck. However, always the optimist, I'm anticipating maximum playing enjoyment with this new horn.


So, Did you get the S300, and if so, how is it working out for you?

[goodsax]

I got it, and it was better than expected. I had to tweak ever so slightly three of the bell keys to get better seals, the result of a light test, and now it plays like a dream. It's an outstanding alto that more than adequately meets my weekend warrior needs.

[John Holifield]

I purchased a used, although I can't see that it was used, S400 tener and I'll have to say that it's a darn good horn. I don't see the predjudice against them.

[Dave Dolson]

John: I haven't seen any prejudice against Unisons. They are competent Taiwanese horns and play exceptionally well, especially for the price, as has been reported many times. A dealer recently told me he'd seen finish-problems with the matte gold and silver, but that sure wasn't the case with the S300 Unison I once owned. DAVE

[saxgirl9]

Yeah I am disappointed with it as well, I've had it less than a year too and because it doesn't hold up well, I am already looking to purchase a new horn.

The horn actually is a pretty decent horn. Looking back, I play on something different now, but it actually was pretty good considering i played 3 to 6 hours on it everyday minimum.

I play a Yamaha custom right now, but the Unison totally makes for a great back up sax. I still love it.

www.teenjazz.com

[William Bua]

Hey altoist,
The cannonball big bell global series has forever fixed the G# sticking problem with springs which operate both on the up and down motion of the key. Its really cool. The horns play great as well. "" TRY IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT""
Bill