from european writing to american, who an translate for me ?

[mister_bronson]

hi, in europe the notes have different names can someone help me so i know what your notes correspond to.
A, B, C, D, E, F, .... can someone please transcribe this to what i am familliar with : DO, RE, MI, FA, SOL, LA, etc...
and for half tones we write stuff like FA dièse, or MI bemol so what is that about firsts, seconds or thirds ?

[Lambik]

A B C D E F G A
is the same as
la si do re mi fa sol la

fa dièse = f sharp (= F#)
si be mol = b flat (= Bb)

The question remains why Americans have to do things different, aye? :wink:

[kcp]

Actually the American way is naming notes starting-off with the letter A because on a conventional piano, the first key at the far left end is A :wink:

I'm a francophone so I learned the do, ré, mi stuff. That's a habbit that can't be broken. I still name notes the European way. What I did however is to learn to associate the word "do" with the symbol "C", the word "ré" with the symbol "D" and so on, and learned to associate every other symbols (ex: #, b, etc) into my own language.

Learning to do so comes in handy later - Chord progessions are written the American way on most music, for instance when I see Em7b5 what I read actually is "Mi mineur sept, bémol cinq" ... I'm skipping the whole translation process. It's much easyer that way 8)

[Gordon (NZ)]

A B C D E F G A
is the same as
la si do re mi fa sol la.....

That is true only in the "key of C", where C is the "home note", i.e. "do".

The two systems are not the same. They name diferent concepts.

"do" refers to the first note of a major sacale, ANY major scale, no matter what pitch you start the scale at. The composer/musician could make it A, B, C F, F# etc - anything of his choice.

"C" refers to a specific frequency, i.e. approx 128 Hertz, 256 Hertz, 512 Hz, 1024 Hz, depending on which octave the note is. "Middle C" on the piano is about 256 Hertz. The next "C" is about 512 Hertz. Both of these are "do" in the "key of C Major", or the "key of A Minor", but not in any other key.

[kcp]

Yes, that is true when talking in terms of Solfège.
I’m not sure about other European countries but I do know that the French are using the same names as in Solfège to refer to the other system. For example: “C” (128 Hz, 256 Hz, 512 Hz…etc) is still named “do”

[Lambik]

A B C D E F G A
is the same as
la si do re mi fa sol la.....

That is true only in the "key of C", where C is the "home note", i.e. "do".

The two systems are not the same. They name diferent concepts.

"do" refers to the first note of a major scale, ANY major scale, no matter what pitch you start the scale at. The composer/musician could make it A, B, C F, F# etc - anything of his choice.

Believe me, I have been taught the European way :) The first note of E major is "mi", not "do" as I have learned it.

We do not write a A major scale like do re mi fa sol la si do, but like la si do-kruis(dièse) re mi fa-kruis sol-kruis la.

The tonic of "mi majeur" is mi, not do. That's how I had it taught, that's how every Belgian musician had it taught. Perhaps it's an anglosaxon system, I'd have no idea. It's not what our Bronson was asking for, actually.

Another point: the Germans also use the letter H. A B to them is a Bb (si bè mol), an H is Bnatural. Bach used to spell his name in his compositions (si bè mol la do si = B A C H)

[kcp]

Lambik, that’s the way I was taught too. Being from Belgium, maybe you can answer this: Are you aware if that’s the way it is taught all over Europe?

[stitch]

Are you aware if that’s the way it is taught all over Europe?

Not in the UK, but then we do often seem to be semi-detached Europeans!!

[Lambik]

Lambik, that’s the way I was taught too. Being from Belgium, maybe you can answer this: Are you aware if that’s the way it is taught all over Europe?

Lol, interesting question. The Dutch and the Belgian system certainly differ from eachother (my clarinet study book is Dutch). They use the Anglosaxon system, but when they sing it goes like "do re mi fa sol la ti do" (ti, not si; and not 100% sure). Perhaps "European system" is a bad expression, and perhaps it should be l'école française :).

But never in my whole musical "career" (only seven years, okay, with lots of theory) have I encountered a French, Dutch or Belgian system counts every tonic as a C.

What I DO have seen, is calling a tonic "UT", but never in a sequence (not e.g. ut mi fa# sol la si do# ut). That "Ut" also has the meaning of C-written scores (C-trombone, flute, etc).

[Gordon (NZ)]

[quote=Kim C Pelletier]But never in my whole musical "career" (only seven years, okay, with lots of theory) have I encountered a French, Dutch or Belgian system counts every tonic as a C....l.

I don't think there is any system which calls (counts?) every tonic as "C". Perhaps that was a misprint.

But the Tonic Sol-Fa for teaching sight singing, according to "The Oxford Companion to Music", was "developed in England and quickly spread over the English-speaking world". As described in this highly respected reference book, this system definitely has "doh" representing the home note of a major scale (i.e. third of a minor scale), no matter what the pitch. i.e. doh could be C-256, or A-440, or any other note.

I cannot speak for Belgium, but Zoltan Kodaly definitely adopted this system for music teaching in Hungary.

See: http://uk.geocities.com/exeteryoungstrings/history_of_the_tonic_solfa_system.htm

[gary]

"Fixed Do" and "moveable Do" are the two systems. I learned them both in America but I have only heard the fixed Do system in Italy.

Opinion, but frankly, for functional purposes, I find the moveable Do more useful. Helps in transposing or understanding the function of notes within a harmonic environment. I learned a very fluid moveable Do from Dick Grove. He moved them around whenever chord functions changed. It got a bit complex but sure helped identify the changing function of (sometimes the same) notes.