Restoration: SML Gold Medal Mark I

[tsssdgglyan]

I recently bought a SML tenor GM Mk I from a local auction for about 790 USD. The s/n is 164xx, which seems to be made in 1959. It does not have its original neck, but came with a Yamaha neck (YTS-61 neck?), which worked ok. The horn's condition was not good. Pads are all very stiff and almost black, and don't-wanna-touch condition. But, the horn sounded fine for the condition. I could play from the lowest Bb to altissimo D. The tone was so sweet and melow, and I loved it (this is my first SML experience).

The former owner did a lot of awkward things. Putting rubber blocks where corks should be. Make a strange spring for Ab table key. Felts were replaced by rubber blocks. F# key's pearl was removed and a nut and rubber was on instead.

I decided to restore this horn by myself, and perhaps with a help of local repairman. First I took a lot of photo of the original shape. Here is my work plan.

1. Remove all the keys and wash the horn.
2. Install new pads.
3. Perhaps order some key pearls and install them.
4. Putting things back.

Then, I may bring the horn to the local repairman to repair what he recommends. Perhaps, I will ask him to fix awkward soldering and two small dents, which I found so far. Also final adjustment should be done by him.

I need the forum member's wisdom to do the right things.

First question: What kind pad is good for SML? It originally had no resonator regular pads. I am thinking about Cangaroo leather pad with a plastic resonator, which is available from MusicMedic. I would appreciate any comments.

- tsss

[tsssdgglyan]

I post a thread asking for a genuine neck. But after browsing around the forum, I foudn many SML users are seeking original necks. So, perhaps what I should do is restore the body and see how it sounds like. Then decided whether I should order Gloger Handkraft neck. I may also consider about silver plate the existing Yamaha neck.

- tsss

[tsssdgglyan]

I wish someone respond to this thread.

I also replace springs and corks. I may need cork location advices since former owner attached some rubber blocks on the sax tube itself, which I think kill the sound.

- tsss

[tsssdgglyan]

I could find a useful post from other thread "Change Pads".
I think I will use Roo pads with plastic reso.
- tsss


I suspect maxing-out the reso size can ruin the balance of the tone you get on any horn. I'd take either flat metal or the plastic Selmer style, but in average sizes or maybe even a little bit undersized. Or I might put resos on the lower stack and bow/bell pads only, and leave the upper stack pads with none.

But it all boils down to the sound you like. I recently bought an SML stencil tenor with its original pads -- equipped with seamless flat metal resos of average diameter, not huge like you see on the older Buffets. This is one of the few horns I have that I can say is a 'keeper' (unless another SML comes along....).

Should add, like some Keilwerths I've played, my SML has a sound that might not care so much what the pads are. Suggestions above about setup (mouthpiece etc.) apply. I can't advise tho'; I play a $70 NY metal Link on everything and I'm happy with that.

[Sax Hut]

I think your choice of pad will work fine. (If you plan to order from MusicMedic in the US, be advised that some pad types are on back-order and the waiting period might be rather long.)　If 'Roos aren't necessary, standard leather pads should also be fine but in any case avoid buying pads that are too thick.

As to finding a useful neck.... you might try one from a late-model King Cleveland or Martin Indiana, if you have access to one of those horns. Visually, they seem to share much in common with the SML tenor neck in general shape and octave-pip location but I am making this suggestion only from that observation. I haven't actually tried another neck on my own SML.

私のコメントは推測だけです。複数のSMLを吹いたり、Kingなどのネックを試した上での根拠というのは 全く無し。

[tsssdgglyan]

Thanks, hornimus. I may just stay with regular pads with plastic reso.

I will keep my eyes on ebay king neck.

日本語を話すんですか。日本に住んでいたことがあるんでしょうか。驚きました。

[BarrySachs]

I would go with a Glogger neck. The SML is a dark horn with resistance. I used to play a Rev.D. A brass or silver Glogger would be good. Don't get a neck from another horn. The SML necks were long. Glogger should make one to the proper specs.

Regular Pesitni or Roo pads from music medic are fine. They are not too thick. Flat or dome resonators are fine.

Good luck.

[tsssdgglyan]

BarrySachs,

Thanks. I'm very glad to have an advice on Gloger. Do you mean brass or copper. I have not seen Gloger brass neck. If they have brass, I am also interested. I would maybe write an email to ask them.

I am interested in roo pads. Maybe roo would be interesting to use, if it is not too thick.

- tsss

[tsssdgglyan]

I disassembled the horn. I measured the cup sizes to order pads. Here is the result. I worder if there was anybody who post similar data before. I measeured them using a regular scale. I will be relieved if I could find such data on the net.

Pad size of SML gold medal mk I
[Unit = mm]
9 (YAMAHA neck)
10
18
22 22 22 22
26
28
32 32 32
34
36 36
38
40
42 42
44
46
48
50 50
(edited on 1/1/2008)

[tsssdgglyan]

After disassembling the horn, I washed the body using warm water. I brused inside the horn using a brush with a stick. The horn is clean now.

I think the former owner sticked rubber block on the body, instead of using corks on the lever. There were rubber block also on the key guard, where usually felt pole is used. I want to confirm whether SML uses corks and felts like other horns and those rubber blocks are former owner's idea.

[tsssdgglyan]

10/22 Feature:
Optional articulation feature with adjustable G# lock permits both group and individual execution of G# to C#, B-Bb. Makes entire action easier!

WHAT IS THIS?

I am now polishing detatched keys. This is a very rewarding and reliefing process. It is great to see parts become shining. I use metal polish, which works fine. The keysa are nickle plated.

Now, I found a rubber block under G# table key, which try to disable some function. On sax pics, this is not something former owner attached, but a special function of SML.
http://www.saxpics.com/sml/sml22.htm
What is this? I would appreciate more detailed explanation than above site.

- tsss

[Blues Growler]

In reply to your question regarding corks and felts, I'm feel sure that SML used these conventional materials. My very original 188*** GM does. I would think there would be some inherent disadvantages in using rubber, but maybe thats all the previous owner could find.

[Sax Hut]

tsss,

I noticed that all your listed pad sizes were in "round" mm, with no half-sizes. You might want to use some digital metric calipers for this and measure again. Perhaps all of your listed sizes are correct (I suspect you did a meticulous job of measuring); it's just unusual (for me) that they include no half-sizes.

The SMLs I've worked on all used conventional felt and cork materials -- no rubber compounds or other synthetics.

As to Feature 10, the toggle lever that lets you enable/disable table-key articulation...... Are you saying that the G# table key from your horn is missing that lever, or perhaps that the previous owner attached some material that prevents the lever from moving? Sometimes these levers become loose and will easily slip downward, causing articulation to be enabled even when the player doesn't want it. The lever's inner side is often covered with a very thin layer of cork to create slight friction with the underside of the G# table key to which it is attached (thereby preventing slippage).

I can email you a photo of my SML's G# key assembly if you need it.

[tsssdgglyan]

Blues Growler,

Thanks. I'm happy to be able to confirm SML uses cork and felts.

- tsss

[tsssdgglyan]

hornimus,

I also thought some of sizes may be half metric. However, this is practically difficult to judge, since some keys are somewhat deformated. You could say it as 22 or 22.5 mm in some cases. I already have pads from MusicMedic and start installing them. It seems 0.5 mm size difference is not a huge problem and so far I could install pads without a problem.

I thought they are light gray, but Roo pads are much whiter than I thought. I like them.

Regarding feature 10: Thanks for your explanation. I understand very well. The former owner inserted a small rubber block not the key slip down. I observed Selmer table keys and found that function is alway on in Selmer (is this correct?). At least, there is a little fixed arm on G# key. There is old brown sheet attached on the key, which may be old cork sheet. I do not have that thin cork sheet, but I will try to use other material to fix it.

I would appreciate sending me a picture of it, if it is not too much trouble for you.

- tsss

[tsssdgglyan]

Pad installation has finished. I am very satisfied with white skin MusicMedic Roo pad. I used a hair dryer to heat pad and tone hole, and press them. It worked well, I believe.

I need some more works to install felts and corks.

Needle springs are somewhat problem, that some springs are already old and somewhat weak. Perhaps, I should have change all the springs before assemble keys. Perhaps, I will change only bad springs after installing felt and cork.

I think I need small soldering in some parts. But, I need a micro torch to do it. Problem is that I do not have it. I should decide whether I will buy it or bring the instrument to local repairman.

- tsss

[tsssdgglyan]

I've got an private mail, who has SML model 49. He says it is a model right before Rev. C. He measured all cups and resulted the same as my measurements. He also experienced difficulty in judging full mm or 0.5 mm, but decided to round them. I install all the pads without any problem. So, I would think this pad size table works, except !! octave key on the neck which he measured was 10 mm (SML).

[tsssdgglyan]

I have not attached corks and felts. But, I could not stop playing the horn, and tried. First, some keys have leaks. I installed cork in skrew pressor right above F key. I also noticed corks are essential for low E and F keys' mechanism part, to close some other keys completely. I temporarily used vinyl tape as spacer, and now the horn become pretty fine condition.

However, I found the low D key is oblique to the tone hole, which resulted leak. I tried putting spacer to the other side and pressed the leak side by fingers, which somewhat worked but not completely.

Is there anyone who can help this condition. Someone advised me to gently bend the arm. I will try it. If anybody who has the same experience and give me some more tips for this operation, it would be very much appreciated. I have not had any experience in doing this kind of operation.

[tsssdgglyan]

I understand adjusting keyworks is a very difficult work. Keys are ballanced with each other, with thickness of corks and skrews. I bended the low D arm a little bit, but I needed to do more is to attach cork. I used leak light to eliminate all the leaks.

After all, I could blow the horn. However, I am not satisfied with it. The mechanism is somewhat loose compared to my other new instruments. Is old vintage horn is like this? Or can I do something more to make the mechanism more tight.

More specific problem is that the lowest Bb sounds fine, but second high D (D with octave key on) does not sound right. It need a lot of attention, otherwise sounds G.

SML has a lot of adjustment screws, which may be a good mechanism, but it is also difficult to adjust, at least so far.

[slausonm]

Some general comments about adding corks and felts. (your needs may vary)

In general, any place where there is metal to metal contact between key parts like the LH stack and RH stack of keys, you will need a thin firm piece of cork or possibly leather or a synthetic if you like synthetic materials. I generally use 1/64" cork or leather. Under the foot of the keys sometimes called a kicker, you will generally need a firm cork in the 1/16-3/32" thickness range. On places where the mechanism has pin in slot type mechanical articulation (side keys,low C# and octive mechanisms, heat shrink tubing works well most of the time. Keys that require felts are usually easier to deal with if you buy or make prepunched disks in the 1/2" or 5/8" diameter. I was taught to glue and cut felt from sheet goods but punched is generally neater and easier.

To make the job neater, buy single edge rasor blades to cut corks and throw the blades out as they become dull. Corks should be cut at a slight taper and have a very neat clean cut. I generally go through 3-4 blades in a repad. If you have a friend with a metal lathe or are able to do it yourself, I would make a few small punches out of drill rod for punching small round corks for things like the bottom of adjusting screws.

In general, I add corks and felts to all the keys at the same time, then I start with the upper stack assembling and adjusting. I work towards the lower stack and towards the outside as I go down the horn.

Oh yay, in my book, what you are trying to do is repad the horn (which is a good thing)You are not restoring it. This is a term that I get a little conserned about when I see people use it. Think of it this way, would you pay the same amount for an antique car advertised as "restored" if it had a crappy faded paint job and dents in the body, but had new tires and a good tune up? I'm not saying every horn needs to be restored or should be restored, but if I see the words restored, it should look pretty darn close to new as well as play like new.

Good Luck!
Matt

[tsssdgglyan]

Matt, your comments are defenitely very valuable for my condition. This is my first time repadding a horn. From your explanation I understand "restoreation" is not a precise word to describe what I am doing. I may be able to use overhaul instead, as I had a granduous idea to make the horn like new blowing condition, as it I still have some dream.

I found you are a professional repairman, who plays flute from your originated thread. I am very happy to advice from a professional repairman.

I will be again carefully go through metal to metal contact, and probablly use leather as it is somewhat easier to cut compared to corks. I will see how the horn is like.

Assembling horn from upper part to lower part, from inside to outside, is something I learned from this trial. Since I still have a feeling that I may start replacing all the needle springs eventually, I may disassemble the horn again and assemble it again. Perhaps, this process will be much easier since pads, corks and felts are already there.

Current agenda is how I could measure spring sizes (diameter especially) and where to order them. ** Matt, if you read this, please let me know whether I defenitely need a special tool (nipper like thing) to replace them.

Again, thanks for your comment and it was a great help to me.

- tsss

[tsssdgglyan]

Pinkie G# key works in the ballance of two needle springs in SML. The spring attached on the table key rod (spring A) closes G# key cup in the normal condition. Another spring (spring B) on the arm from the cup (a separate piece) which opens the cup but the spring force is weaker than A. So, when you play G, you don't press pinkie key, so that the G# cup is closed position. But, when you play G#, you press pinkie key and release the spring A force, so that wekaer spring B opens the cup.

It seems the spring A on my SML does not have sufficient force, so that the G# cup is not completely closed in the normal position. It maybe a problem of cork attachment between two parts (rod from table key AND arm from the cup). But, the former owner attached his original spiral spring to give a supplement force for spring A.

I am thinking to replace spring A, but spring B seems to need very difficult setting for force direction.

I would appreciate any advice on this issue.

[tsssdgglyan]

Until now, there have been a lot of things done. Soldering is a big advancement. I bought Prince GB-2001, gas burner or micro-torch. This is my first time to solder brass instruments, but I think I did a good job in soldering some key guards. I also attached an additional strap ring, because SML's strap ring is located in a higher position than recent Selmer type saxophones and the ring of my SML maybe break soon or late.

Leaks are almost all eliminated. There are some needle spring problems, but they are not something which must be done.

However, I still have pinkie G# key ballance problem. I actually changed A needle spring to a new one. But, the situation was the same thing. I would really appreciate any advice on this issue. Thank you in advance.