School without Walls (Dick Grove)

[Ken]

I've been thinking about taking up big band arranging again after a long time off and am considering either taking lessons with a local arranger, or self-study via email. Someone pointed me to School without Walls (http://www.dickgrove.com/wd/t/httpdocs/coursedesc/cap1desc.htm) which is a correspondence course that includes a course on arranging. Dick Grove is no longer alive, but they still use his books and dvd's. The school is now run by Dana Rasch and Dirk Price.

Does anyone know anything about this course or the people involved?

The arranging course has 4 self paced quarters, each taking maybe 6 months to a year to complete depending on how much time you able to spend. Each quarter costs around $2K. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Thanks.

[Bossman]

Well honestly I don't think you need 2-4 years of schooling to learn how to arrange for big band. In my experience its mostly trial and error. To learn the actual principles I don't think its worth spending 8k and 4 years on- especially via email or internet.

I think the best thing would be to go to your local library or university and take out some books about big band arranging and just write as much as you can. Get familiar with what is "normal" for instruments that you aren't familiar with- Musicians are pretty good about helping people out who've got questions about stuff like that.

Check out some local big bands and talk to the leader, see if he's willing to have the band sightread your chart. The first couple times maybe your ego will be crushed by the negative comments, but you'll learn so much from what the players' say.

Oh and look at as many charts as you can! There's a ton of Nestico's arrangements for Basie's Orchestra floating around, for example.

That course looks like you'll be learning way more than just big band writing- so if that's your thing then go for it. But if you just want to get into big band writing, and you've already done it a bit, I don't think its worth it.

[Ken]

I agree that course covers a wide area. At least with a local arranger there's more flexibility in what areas to focus on.

I hear what you say about self-study. Maybe it's better to combine that with periodic lessons whenever I have enough material to be reviewed.

[gary]

Ken, I've studied with Dick both in both the early 80's with his correspondence course when he had his school in Studio City (we used his arranging book for that) and then in the early 90's with the School Without Walls (SWW).

SWW is good in that it's an organised curriculum. You progress in a logical manner, making sure you leave nothing out. What I don't like about it, or rather what I question, is whether or not he's got it micro-organised. Only you could decide that. To tell you the truth, I really don't know.

I learned the Berklee system back in the 60's and then studied writing at NT and then had professional experience before studying Dick's method. The SWW system is much more integrated, and much broader in terms of general musicianship than the first correspondence course I took.

I think if you haven't arranged and have an average understanding of music, it can be valuable. I particularly like the way he classifies chord typed, explains what incomplete chords really are, and many other things, as well as his way of using solfeggio.

I'm sending you a PM with a few more private thoughts.

Oh yeah, an afterthought. One of the things that's cool on the videos is when Dick is illustrating his concepts at the piano. He does some really sophisticated things harmonically. And his wit is right up my alley (and over the heads of some of his students).