Key structure on vintage saxophone?

[wainsworth]

Is there a website that will provide a picture with the keys "named" for my 1926 Conn? I know that the key system has been improved but I am getting my information on the keys from a modern Saxophone tutorial.

[TheChristianSax]

I am not sure how helpful this will be, but some of the older sax method books had fingering charts that will probably help you with your vintage Conn. I am talking about Advanced Studies for Saxophone by H.Voxman and similar books. Your horn sounds like it might have the extra Ab/G# trill and Eb/D# trill keys. Anyway, hope info helps. :D

Sincerely,

Matt

[Hornlip]

Is there a website that will provide a picture with the keys "named" for my 1926 Conn? I know that the key system has been improved but I am getting my information on the keys from a modern Saxophone tutorial.

"Improved" depends on who you talk too . . . :wink: !

But anyway, if you've got a 1926 Conn, alto or tenor, it will have both a G# trill key and a E-flat trill key. It will not have a high F# key like many modern horns do. Other than those keys, the only difference between your horn and modern horns will probably be the high F#. Mechanically there may be quite a lot of difference, but the keys and where they are found is basically the same.

Finger a G#/A-Flat using the left-hand pinky table, and notice the key cup that opens when you do that. Now, look where the right hand goes on the horn. The first button, for you right-hand index finger, is F. The next button immediately below the F is the key that operates the G# trill. Press it with you right-had index finger and you'll see that it closes the key cup that was opened when you played the G#/A-Flat with your left-hand pinky -- thus you trill from G# to G.

The E-Flat trill is a little more complicated, because it actually involves an extra tone hole that isn't found on modern horns. Holding the horn in playing position, you'll notice that there is a small tone hole down low on the left side of the horn's body just above the joint of the body and bow. That's the alternate E-Flat tone hole. To operate it, first finger a low D -- you have to use the first three fingers of your right hand. Using you First, Middle and Ring fingers, press down the right-hand pearl keys but not the pearl on the G# trill. That's "D". Now, lift your middle finger. Unless the E-Flat trill key has been wedged shut (which is sometimes the case), it should open when you lift your middle finger. That's the alternate E-Flat!!

All the other keys on your horn ought to correspond to a modern fingering chart, except for high F#. I hope that was clear & didn't just confuse you!!

[wainsworth]

Thanks to both of you. Your advice will help me a lot as I learn the scales and argeggios. I am still in the early stages.

[MM]

Older saxophones have their bell tone holes on the left side. I think Selmer was the first to move them to the right side. What are the pros and cons to this? I can think of two advantages to the modern scheme. The pads are less likely to collect moisture and gunk when the horn is on its side in the case. Also, the tone will project better if the horn is played on the your right side side the open tone holes won't be up against your body. But there must have been a reason why they were originally on the opposite side.

[Dave Dolson]

. . . and even older curved saxophones have split bell keys. DAVE

[goodsax]

hornlip - That's an excellent description of the Eb trill key on vintage saxes. I remember my first encounter with one on a Buescher TT I had and my repair tech told me what it was and opined that the reason it was wedged shut, as it was on my sax, was to make sure the keypad didn't open when it wasn't supposed to and didn't bounce, or flutter. He, like you, said many owners of these saxes choose to wedge the Eb key shut.

[mostly alto guy]

Why were bell keys placed on the left? Possibly because it allows for a simpler mechanism. I think they got away from it because while simpler, LH bell key mechs tend to be stiffer.

Why split mechs? Frankly, I have no idea why, unless someone liked the concept of guarding against leaks by having B and Bb work against each other, in effect squeezing the bell and enhancing the seal.

[Les22]

I thought both bell keys were placed on the right hand side on modern horns to allow for sound to emit from them toward the audience instead of toward your pants leg, which happens when you play the horn off your right side and the tone holes are on the left side of the bell.

[Les22]

Oops......I see that MM already said what I said about right side tone holes. So the question remains on why put tones holes on left side on some vintage horns. My guess....it looked nicer to hide the tone holes away on the left side.....less clutter, sleeker looking bell.

[bruce bailey]

Placing the bell keys on the left is easier to make from a keywork standpoint, they can be one piece. Placing them on the right keeps them away from the leg if you play on the side. Placing the opposing on both sides makes it easier to have strength on the tubing as the tone holes don't sit so close together.

[GaryLee]

I have a old Bundy tenor with left side bell keys (Buscher style) and I do not notice any difference in sound when I hold the horn against my leg while sitting down versus standing up.
I would agree that the mechanism on modern horns with right side keys has a lighter feel.

With the left side bell keys the pivot point is to the outside of the pinky keys (looking from the front of the horn) and there is very little leverage. You need to push the key toward the body of the horn which is somewhat opposite the direction of the other left hand fingers.

With modern horns the pivot point is closer to the body and the key sticks out so it gives you more mechanical advantage. You can push on the outside edge of the Bb & C# to get more leverage.

Vintage Conn's also have left side bell keys but the pinky arrangement is different than my Bundy so what I have said may not apply.

It could have been the simpler mechanism that kept the bell keys on the left but I also wonder if the decision was influenced by the fact that it left more space on the outside of the bell for elaborate engraving.