Which neck for a Ref54 Tenor???

[nitram_tpr]

Hi,

My GF plays a Ref54 tenor and would like to change the neck for a silver one. She has been told that a MK6 neck would need altering to fit. Is this correct? Also i have read that a series II neck will fit :?
So, will any Selmer neck fit the Ref54?

Thanks in advance.

Martin

[Saxplayer1]

What is it she doesn't like about the standard neck? What is it she's trying to achieve? That needs to be determined first.

My recommendation from experience is that the Sterling Ref. 54 neck is the ideal match. Very expensive however. It can be purchased through Kessler & Son's in Vegas. However, I recommend trying a few. All Selmer necks have a slightly different character. The sterling neck gives the Ref. 54 more power, a bigger richer sound and a wonderful smoothness to the sound. It blew me away when compared to the standard neck. The standard was okay but the Sterling was amazing.

The Mk VI and Series II necks will not fit, will require modification to the tenon and won't do the horn justice in terms of sound and intonation. Also many SOTW members recommend the Series III neck. I find this neck doesn't allow the bottom to come through although it gives the horn as brighter sound, more Series III like.

[heath]

You can check out a thread I started on necks for my Ref 54. Of course it doesn't go into anything related to silver necks. Although I've tried solid sterling silver necks and found they make about 1% difference in sound a 100% difference in the balance of your savings account.

Neck thread: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=67155

After trying lots of necks the stock 54 neck that came with your GF's horn is probably the best neck for the horn. Selmer actually knows what they are doing when they make a certain neck for each horn.

I differently wouldn't get a Series II neck as it will destroy the Ref sound. The Ref necks are a very low arch neck and that adds to the vintage sound...ie dark and sometimes stuffy when compared to higher arched necks.

My advise to you is to look for a mouthpiece or something like that if you're buying her a gift. If you have the cash for a Sterling silver neck then you might buy her a wedding ring as sax playing girlfriends are rare and this may be your only hope for a decent marriage as a sax player yourself. :)

[Dr G]

Gloger silver 54 necks are nice - I had a silver Gloger 54 neck and sold it.

BUT, if she is just looking for the silver look and her horn plays well, get the neck silverplated. I've a horn that had some dent work done on the neck and having it silverplated is exactly what I plan to do.

[heath]

You might ask her why she wants a silver neck in the first place. Fashion or Function?

Maybe invite her to participate on the forum so we can get a better idea of what she's looking for.

[Sigmund451]

Do not use a VI neck.

Do not use a Series II or generic Selmer Silver Neck.

These will lead to intonation issues.

Series III is fun

Barones are fun

There is something to be said about the original neck but Im not sure what yet.

There was a recent Barone on the forum for a good price.

[heath]

Yeah but the Barone works and it doesn't work. Sad thing is Phil would agree with me on this statement.

I found the middle G/G# troublesome with the Barone, altissimo wasn't working the way I liked and the neck angle of the Ref 54 is so much more comfy, let alone the intonation is more centered with the stock neck. She wants a silver neck, but I have no idea why because we all know by now that a neck made of Silver isn't going to add up to much, now a new Ref 54 neck might help matters if she's got a stuffy neck. Standard brass offers all the things a vibrating column of air needs, it doesn't care if it vibrates in brass, silver, gold, platinum and so on. We can point this fact out that 99.9% of the greats played with there stock necks on the SBA, VI and 10M's and so on.

If she needs something with more zip then I suggest a III. I think you can get those silver plated. I wouldn't bother with solid sterling silver as I think those run around $600 for a III and $700 for a Ref.

I checked Kesslers site and it looks like he's got a SS III for $595 and a SS Ref 36 for $695, which I don't suggest. You'd have to special order a silver plated III for $320 and you'd be better of if you planned to give it to her by next christmas, it takes awhile ordering necks from Selmer. I think Dr. G mentioned you can get a neck silver plated for perhaps $100.

[Sigmund451]

....and Im starting to like the stock neck. Ive been playing around with them again tonight. I do have to say that the horn plays more evenly throughout the scale with the stock neck. Intonation is so on that Im off from over correcting.

[BigHunk]

I play the silver Ref54 neck I bought from kesslers,It was a very close call between the stock neck but after A/B and some recording & playback.the silver neck definatly sounds better...."For Me that is"

[nitram_tpr]

Thanks for the replies guy's. A lot to think about.

So, a MK V1 neck will not fit, a Series II neck will not fit. But a Series III will?

She wants to get the 'vintage' sound, she's tried a Selmer silver mouthpiece and that brightened the sound up, but, it wasn't really what she was after.
She is currently playing with a Otto Link New York Metal 7*, that is her current favourite. She has used a Lawton on her 54 and she found it quite hard to control. I have bought her a fair few pieces, Barone, Meyer, Brilhart and she keeps going back to the Otto Link.
Should she get a Jody Jazz, Guardala or a vintage Otto Link to get the sound she is after?

I have to say I'm not a player (musically inept me :( ), just a listener and a message poster for her ;)

She also has a YAS62, that she would like to trade up for a MK VI or Borgani :shock: I reckon she should get a Silversonic as I think they are awesome looking ;)

And I thought Golf was an expensive hobby :?

Thanks again guys I bow to your knowledge 8-) Especially Heath, I've just read your neck thread, intensive research, I feel your pain ;)

[Dr G]

Turns out that this is the neck that I tried on my Ref 36. It has a sound, full-bodied timbre. I really liked it for what it did - you can probably find a few gushing reviews of when I got it. For my classical work, though, it was a little too rich in combination with my tried-and-true classical setup, hence my resale. If she is looking for a phat vintage sound, this neck has great complexity and response. In a word: "SChweeeeeeeeeeeet!" ;)

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=71888

Borgani? That's my last tenor - excellent. Be aware that they need considerable tweaking to get them dialed in - pads need to be reset, etc.

Silversonic? Cool lookin'? Sure. Play one before you buy one tho' - as much as I love the sound, the ergos just don't work for me (neck angle really bothers me).

And hey, I think you deserve kudos for being such a great partner to your lady!

[heath]

If she's looking for the vintage vibe then she's got the tools already.

An Otto Link NY 7, her stock Ref 54 with the stock neck.

The rest is practicing 10 hours a day.

Silver finish, solid silver or anything pretty isn't going to make a difference.

Vintage can me a lot of things. Does she have a favorite player that she's trying to emulate?

I wouldn't go with a III neck, it leans more towards a modern brighter sound.

[Dr G]

Heath, I owned and played that Gloger neck on my Ref 36 and will attest that it has more complexity than a Selmer Ref 54 neck (that I also owned). If complexity and response are what some people attribute to the "vintage vibe", it has it. The quality of the Gloger necks is superior.

[heath]

Yeah but the Ref 54 neck doesn't fit with the Ref 36 at all tone wise. I to tried swapping necks between my Ref 54 and 36. The Ref 36 with a ref 54 neck kills the Ref 36.....almost sterilizing the lush tone of the 36. Gloger necks are no doubt high quality, I'm not questioning that, but it seems every time someone buys an after market neck they eventually go back to the stock. That and the Gloger should be ready Christmas 2008.

On another note, the Ref 36 neck on the Ref 54 horn doesn't make for a good match IMO. Of course I own both horns and someone may want to change up their 54 for variety, but I found the 54 neck to line up with regards to intonation and response better than a good Ref 36 neck when stuck on a 54.

[Dr G]

Yeah but the Ref 54 neck doesn't fit with the Ref 36 at all tone wise. I to tried swapping necks between my Ref 54 and 36. The Ref 36 with a ref 54 neck kills the Ref 36.....almost sterilizing the lush tone of the 36.

Quite the opposite on my Ref 36 - not sterile at all. Note also that you are comparing oranges and ducks between a Selmer and a Gloger neck.


Gloger necks are no doubt high quality, I'm not questioning that, but it seems every time someone buys an after market neck they eventually go back to the stock. That and the Gloger should be ready Christmas 2008.

The neck that I cited is for sale at SotW NOW - that would be delivery before Christmas 2007. Intonation was dead on. Whether this person goes back to stock or not is outside your scope. We all have to experience these things for ourselves. If most people went back to stock, there would be a pile of Gloger, Boesken, and other necks stacked in an elephant graveyard and Karsten would be out of business. There is value in aftermarket necks for at least someone - even it not you and me.

My greatest reason for selling the Gloger neck was I could not justify having that much money invested in saxophone gear at a time when cash flow was becoming negative. Note that I've since sold my Ref 36, several boutique mouthpieces, an alto flute, and a couple clarinets.

[Pete Thomas]

If she's looking for the vintage vibe then she's got the tools already.

An Otto Link NY 7, her stock Ref 54 with the stock neck.

Yes, a vintage mouthpiece will help get a vintage sound - and make MUCH more difference than a neck. A different neck will not make much difference to whether the sound is vintage or not IMO.

[heath]

Dr. G are you talking about the Ref 54 neck Swamcabbage is selling?

Or are you selling your Gloger?

I shouldn't have written that the Ref 54 neck on the Ref 36 horn is sterile, but I noticed a "complexity" missing when I put the Ref 54 neck on the 36.

That aside the difference between the two ref necks is so small as far as shape and size I have to scratch my head trying to figure out which is which. I asked Kessler the other day how he tells the lacquered Ref 54 and 36 necks apart and he thought the Ref 54 neck approach is straighter at the tenon and the 36 neck approaches the tenon at more of an angle, but I put them side by side and I can't see any difference. Selmer should start marking there necks so you can at least be sure which is which. If you threw them in a pile I know I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but they do play different.

SOTW must have 1000's of thread pertaining to the Ref 54. Maybe where beating a dead horse.

And I agree with Pete, the mouthpiece is going to do more for her than the neck. She already has a good set up. Nothing to do but practice.

[Swampcabbage]

heath, The one I am selling is the very one that Dr. G owned. Alos, to note, I purchased it to use on my VI as a backup while I was having my neck repaired. Since then, I have acquired a legit backup VI neck and the original neck was successful repaired.

Confusing, I know.

[Dr G]

Dr. G are you talking about the Ref 54 neck Swamcabbage is selling?

See posts #11 and #13.

[Billt4mn]

My recommendation from experience is that the Sterling Ref. 54 neck is the ideal match. Very expensive however. It can be purchased through Kessler & Son's in Vegas. However, I recommend trying a few. All Selmer necks have a slightly different character. The sterling neck gives the Ref. 54 more power, a bigger richer sound and a wonderful smoothness to the sound. It blew me away when compared to the standard neck. The standard was okay but the Sterling was amazing.
I had the same experience recently with a Ref 54 tenor. Except I didn't care for the standard neck at all. Loved a certain sterling silver neck, though. But as Saxplayer 1 says, you gotta try a number of them.

And good for you nitram tpr, for having a girlfriend with a Ref 54 :)

[heath]

heath, The one I am selling is the very one that Dr. G owned. Alos, to note, I purchased it to use on my VI as a backup while I was having my neck repaired. Since then, I have acquired a legit backup VI neck and the original neck was successful repaired.

Confusing, I know.

Good luck with the neck sale Swamp.

[nitram_tpr]

And good for you nitram tpr, for having a girlfriend with a Ref 54 :)

Thanks........... I think!

When we first met she used to moan about not having a sax any more. She had to sell her previous one a couple of years before we met.
So one christmas I bought her an Earlham Tenor (we are in the UK btw). I knew nothing about saxophones so took the advice of the guy in the shop. She then decided she wanted an alto, so I bought her a YAS62.
The Earlham then had to be traded because she became better than it, we went to sax.co.uk and she spent 4 hours trying out loads of different saxs out. The decision came down to the REF54, or the 9932 Yani, very expensive tastes my GF has :( The REF 54 got the nod just. Since then we have been on a mouthpiece buying frenzy. I doubt she has loads compared to you guys, she has 3 metal pieces and about 9 rubber ones. We are gonna have a slimdown of her collection to try and fund the purchase of a vintage Otto Link, and perhaps put towards the Borgani / Mk VI alto.

Her sax idols are Charlie Parker, Stan Getz and Sonny Rollins amongst others.

Thanks again for all the input guys :D Much appreciated.

[heath]

Yes your women has good taste in horns, mouthpieces and musicians. Keep your eye on her because there's lots of single sax players that are looking for just that sort of women that will let us play and not gripe about it.

[Markus]

I am very happy using a copper Gloger neck, built for a MkVII on my Ref. 54.
Intonation has improved, a bit more of overtones, even sound above the whole register.

Markus