How to control low volume when playing with a band

[tsouza44]

I don't believe I am the only person with this problem.

How many times you go play with a band, do the sound check, the sound man looks at you and gives the thumbs up that you're sounding perfect into the loudspeaker mix and you're ready to go.

Few minutes into the gig, some folks come to you and tell you they can't hear your horn! Than you realized what happened. Most of the other instruments (guitar, bass, etc..) have volume control, but your microphone.:evil: If you're lucky enough, the sound man will boost your volume up but in most cases s/he won't.

I've been looking around for a volume pedal but couldn't find any which help me with this problem.

Any suggestions??

TIA-

[Merlin]

Simple solution: just play really softly during sound check.

[Bill Mecca]

1. Get a new sound man.
2. What Merlin said
3. get a small powered mixer of your own, run the mic into it, feed the main board, and #2, plus leave yourself some headroom on your own mixer. :twisted:
4. Get a new sound man.

[Subtone Sam]

I'm familiar with this problem too.

Since soundmen are often provided by the sound-company,getting a new soundman is not always an option but there are other ways to solve this problem:

like Merlin says,play softly during soundcheck and don't play low Bs or Bbs during the check,they will come out loud from the PA and soundman will adjust to that,turning the gain down.Don't play altissimo either,for the same reason.

If you play through regular mic (not clip-on),do the souncheck from 30-40 cm distance from the mic;during the gig,move closer and during solos,move very close to mic,so that it is almost inside the bell of your horn.But even during the gig,move away from the mic a bit when playing low Bs and Bbs so that they don't come out too loud;this would cause the soundman to turn you down again.If you use the clip-on mic,do the same thing as with the regular mic altough it is not as easy with clip-on mic.

[Paul Coats]

You cannot possibly hear how much to turn your mic up or down and be in balance with the rest of the band, as heard by the audience. If you think it is just right, invariably you will be way too loud. You are at the mercy of the soundman.

A sound check is more than seeing if everything works, or at what setting each channel peaks a meter. Some sound men don't get it. Fire them.

IF the soundman is "riding the gain", turning your mic down when you are not playing a solo, and turning it back up 8 -10 bars into a solo, because he belately realized you are soloing and can't be heard, go over during a break and warn him, tell him you are warning him once. After that... do what you think best.

If you can't be heard, it is not YOUR problem. It is the band leader's problem. Inform the band leader. If he wants to pay you to act like you are playing and no sound, fine. Take your money.

If YOU are the band leader, fire the sound man.

Having your own volume control will only add to the problem if the guitar player and others are contstantly turning their equipment up. That takes a band leader with some fortitude to handle the other players.

Been there, done that.

In MY bands, we got rid of soundmen, and I walk out front and listen, set everyone else's volume, get it all in balance. Then I would play with the band, and the keyboardist would do the same, setting my volume.

We do not touch the board for the rest of the night. And we always get compliments on how good we sound.

Setting volume, first balance the bass with the drums. Next balance the keyboard and guitar with the bass and drums. Ask the guitarist to play at a solo level, as well as accompaniment level. During the solo level, have him crank it up! NOW set him for a good solo level with the drums, bass, and keyboard playing.

Then balance the horn section with the rhythm section. Add the vocals last.

Tone, clarity is more important than actual volume, or sound pressure. You can be real loud, and the singer sound muffled, mushy, unintelligable.

For horns, I suggest you set the treble, mid, bass tone controls such that the male voice sounds natural, and add just a hint of reverb/echo--just enough to warm of the sound a little.

If there is not enough highs or treble, the speaking voice will sound muffled. It will be difficult to understand what is being said, or sung. If there is too much highs or treble, the "S's will sizzle", or be very pronounced, hiss.

If there is too much bass, the voice will sound boomy, like in a small tiled bathroom, or singing in the shower. Some low notes will resonate and jump out. If there is not enough bass, the tone will sound thin.

If you have a midrange controll, that is usually in the 2000 hz range, best to leave that neither boosted nor cut, center the midrange.

As I said, just a touch of reverb, but not enough to echo or ring, just to warm the tone up a little, neither "wet" nor "dry".

Set singing mics the same way, and you are in business.

To do all this, start with a moderate to low volume level. Once all is set, you can crank up the master volume control on the mixer/head if needed.

REMEMBER, it is balance and clarity of sound, not actual volume, that is MOST important.

[KevyD]

Ah this topic brings back so many frustrating memories! Most of the sound guys you get a some random rock club don't know anything about miking horns. And the smaller and more obscure the venue, the more likely the soundman is to be a burnout of one sort or another. We've had to go find and WAKE UP a sound guy during a performance!

There are good soundmen out there and they are worth their weight in gold! Find them. Get their card. Give them money and drag them with you!

I used to have a nice SD systems mic for my tenor. The kind with the belt preamp. Those were nice because I could soundcheck with the preamp on a lower setting, and then crank it when the soundman was asleep at the wheel. But if he insists on being your nemesis, he has more knobs that you and the final say.

And it is so aggravating when they mute you only to turn you up for solos. Especially if you also are playing background stuff here and there. I try talk to the soundman before the gig if possible to make sure we're on the same page, because I know more often than not we aren't. Be diplomatic, though. Sometimes a little body language on stage lets the guy know you're getting ready to blow...of course he has to be paying attention and not on the can.

I feel your pain. If you can bring someone you trust to do the job, that is the only way to be sure.

[Bill Mecca]

REMEMBER, it is balance and clarity of sound, not actual volume, that is MOST important.

AMEN!

There is a thread, with some great info from eyup, don't have a link right now, but its called "Advice For the Sound Guy" Says a lot of what Paul says, with one difference, setting the vocal levels for the venue first, then setting instrument levels to support the vocals. Great in theory, more difficult to get the band as a whole to understand and abide by.

[sax rookie]

Paul,
I agree with everything you said...except.

"We do not touch the board for the rest of the night"

I am a soundman and I ride levels all night, as a good soundman should. There are too many variables that will change the levels throught the night and a good soundman should ride the levels to maintain the balance that you prefer.

Another tip is get a soundman who is familier with your songlist. There is nothing worse that a soundguy who has no idea of the structure of the song and where solos come and go.

We fired a headbanger who just didn't "get it"