The Affect of Botox ( on the forehead ) on Embouchure

[Dave Wright]

Is there any significant affect does anyone know? You see the forehead change in while people play, but is this expression or are these muscle connected in some finely tuned way?

Would parylising these muscles have an affect on a strong embouchure?

Thanks

[Dr_sax]

If done correctly it wont affect the embouchure. It just looks different ;-)
If it affects your playing something went wrong and the doc gave too much or wrong area.

[heath]

Are guys actually getting botox? I always thought a mans face gave him a little character with a few wrinkles, marks and scars. It tells everyone you've lived a little.

[hakukani]

Just when you've thought you've heard it all<sigh>...

[RootyTootoot]

Hello dave, you cheeky chappie!

My embouchure pre botox:

[RootyTootoot]

..and post botox.

See the difference?

But my playing is just as bad as ever!! :shock:

[nachoman]

surely sax palyers are supposed to look a bit battered round the edges, goes with the territory....

[Saxplayer67]

If you have botox treatment, then you'll be able to pass for younger than you are, join a high school band and get a look at all those chicks! :laughing:

If too much botox is used, then your embouchure will be tighter and you'll be able to play soprillo no trouble! :binky:

Hey, just reminded myself of one of the old Road Runner cartoons, where Wile E. Coyote uses araldite from Acme and something goes wrong (as it always does) and his mouth shrinks and he can't get a chicken in his mouth so he puts araldite on the chicken so it fits in his mouth. Uh don't worry 'bout me, stream of conciousness stuff I guess - hey great for improvising! :dontknow:

[daigle65]

That opens up the whole Joe Allard vs Larry Teal debate.

[Dave Wright]

Lol rootsy.

Thanks doc.

If I said i was asking on behalf of a student, none of you would believe me..:)

Having said that, I don't see what the difference is between men and women having it done. Whats the difference between ironing your Hawaiian shirt for a gig and ironing your forehead? Its just a different degree of vanity.

[MJ]

It's your money and if you want to try botox, more power to you.

On a similar bent, there are a lot of people going around smiling these days due to veneers on their teeth. It makes them happy. That's what's important.

I say go for it!


Mary Jo

[Sigmund451]

I vote for a new mouthpiece rather than needles in your head. Im pretty sure the mouthpiece (or any GAS related item) wouldbe a lot more fun....but hea, its your game...make your own rules.

[fballatore]

Having said that, I don't see what the difference is between men and women having it done. Whats the difference between ironing your Hawaiian shirt for a gig and ironing your forehead? Its just a different degree of vanity.
Ironing your Hawaiian shirt is just standard appearance and grooming, plain and simple. Ironing your forehead is insane (for a man or woman). I don't get all this plastic surgery addiction. I agree with you Hakukani - just when you think you've heard it all...

What do you think his embouchure is like??

[LampLight]

Frank,

At least he's not after young chicks.:D

[hakukani]

I don't iron my Aloha shirts, and I wear them five days a week.

[retread]

Same shirt? Do you wash it? :D

[hakukani]

Same shirt? Do you wash it? :D



Are you kidding? I LIVE here. I have dozens. For the last year I've limited my aloha shirt purchases to only those with fish or marine animal prints.

[heath]

The thing about cosmetic and plasitic surgery is that you're often fooling no one. I would think you'd become more aware of what you look like to others.

And of course if it's the opposite sex your looking to attract. Women are more concerned with talent, money, and prestige. You can be the ugliest sack on the earth and if you've got any of the above they'll be all over you. You can be the best looking boy toy and if you've got nothing going for you then you can bet it's not going to work out and your botox looks are going to wear off long before your first date is over.

[bandmommy]

And of course if it's the opposite sex your looking to attract. Women are more concerned with talent, money, and prestige. You can be the ugliest sack on the earth and if you've got any of the above they'll be all over you. You can be the best looking boy toy and if you've got nothing going for you then you can bet it's not going to work out and your botox looks are going to wear off long before your first date is over.


Not ALL women are concerned with talent, money, and prestige.
Some of us actually go for a sence of humour, kindness, and commitment to family. I wouldn't say that is having nothing going for you.
I don't care if a man is the best at what he does and has more money than Fort Knox. If he's a jerk, he's not worth my time.

[Dave Wright]

Ironing your Hawaiian shirt is just standard appearance and grooming, plain and simple. Ironing your forehead is insane (for a man or woman). I don't get all this plastic surgery addiction. I agree with you Hakukani - just when you think you've heard it all...

What do you think his embouchure is like??



'Bad' probably.

With all due respect I think that is slightly narrow minded. You live in a country with a ' desparate housewife ' society that is obsessed with looking younger. Try telling millions of 40 somethings they are insane- each to their own I say.

Botox is a pretty simple painless procedure that wears off after a few months and just delays the onset or developement of targetted wrinkles, it also help excessive sweaters by freezing the sweat glands...thats what my student told me anyway:)

[RootyTootoot]

And of course if it's the opposite sex your looking to attract. Women are more concerned with talent, money, and prestige. You can be the ugliest sack on the earth and if you've got any of the above they'll be all over you.

.

heath, please tell me to f off if you like, but your view of women is seriously twisted. I'm not denying that your perspective fits the bill in some cases but you always seem to want to generalise in this slightly crazy way. Seriously, you make it sound like you've never in your life met a woman who was anything other than a manipulative money-grubber. But then, if that's what you expect to find then maybe that's what turns up. Do you see what i mean?

[heath]

RootyTooty everyone has different experiences. I don't have any idea how old your are. Have you tried dating women in their mid twenties lately?

Granted BandMommy is older and wiser and has come to realize that jerks(myself included) don't always make the best mates.

And I'll admit my dating experience is with young attractive women only. It's not easy keeping this group happy and even though there's lots of nice women around, if she's not hot then it doesn't do anything for me, I've tried dating a few women that were slightly less than models and it seems to halt my testosterone. I just want the best at bargain basement prices.....is that too much to ask?

[RootyTootoot]

RootyTooty everyone has different experiences. I don't have any idea how old your are. Have you tried dating women in their mid twenties lately?
I just want the best at bargain basement prices.....is that too much to ask?

heath, you're a funny chap. Good luck to you. I'm approaching 41 and i find myself beating off hot young models with a stick! (no, not really ;) ).

Seriously: if you don't adjust the way you think about girls a bit you're heading for a very disappointing middle age. In my opinion.

[nobhead1]

Heath,

Do you find that the white sticks and labradors belonging to these 'hot' women, get in your way?:D




(Sense of humour litmus test)

[heath]

Seriously: if you don't adjust the way you think about girls a bit you're heading for a very disappointing middle age. In my opinion.

No attitude adjustment needed. It's all sunshine and rainbows for old heath.

[bandmommy]

Yes, I am older, 46, and not necessarily wiser.
A long time ago I was a woman in my mid 20's, and really pretty darned cute. I still went for the nice guys that made me laugh. I got asked out by, but wouldn't date the ones who thought the only girl worth their time had a tiny behind and big boobs. Those guys treated their 'dates' like garbage. I'm afraid I had, and still have too much self respect. Those 'Best at Bargain Basement prices' girls were called whores.

Some guys really need to stop thinking with the part of their body that produces Testosterone, and start meeting some REAL women. There's more to being "hot" than what you see with your eyes.

[jmm1713]

There's more to being "hot" than what you see with your eyes.


Very Very True ......

[LampLight]

There's a lot of truth in The End, from Abbey Road:

And, in the end, the love you take
is equal to the love you make.
And there's a lesson in there about how to treat women, too.

[heath]

Some guys really need to stop thinking with the part of their body that produces Testosterone, and start meeting some REAL women. There's more to being "hot" than what you see with your eyes.

Of course this is impossible. One thing many women can't seem to get around is that guys are very visual when it comes to tastes in women. If a women lets herself go and doesn't keep that tight hiney, you can bet mother nature will steer his eyes in other directions. Women have the same thing, however they are much more talented at hiding it. The whole human race boils down to hormones.

Take me for instance. I like long jet black hair, very slim and petite, nice teeth, and a somewhat deep and sexy voice. She also has to be very healthy and strong. If she doesn't have this, then for some reason I'm not interested.

I'm not sure what Real women are. BandMommy can you go into more detail?

[hakukani]

Of course this is impossible. One thing many women can't seem to get around is that guys are very visual when it comes to tastes in women. If a women lets herself go and doesn't keep that tight hiney, you can bet mother nature will steer his eyes in other directions. Women have the same thing, however they are much more talented at hiding it. The whole human race boils down to hormones.

Take me for instance. I like long jet black hair, very slim and petite, nice teeth, and a somewhat deep and sexy voice. She also has to be very healthy and strong. If she doesn't have this, then for some reason I'm not interested.

I'm not sure what Real women are. BandMommy can you go into more detail?

Heath, Heath, Heath. It's all about reproduction. If you don't reproduce, you've taken your genes out of the mix, no natural selection for you, my man. Not that that's a bad thing...

Parenting is the only profession still available to amateurs...

Luckily, there are still people like bandmommy, Carl H., among others, that will help nurture the positive behaviors that can be exhibited by us human beings.

[heath]

Reproduction is too much work for me. A selfish lifestyle suites me just fine.

[hakukani]

Reproduction is too much work for me. A selfish lifestyle suites me just fine.

See, Darwin was right, natural selection works!:)

[Grumps]

Seriously: if you don't adjust the way you think about girls a bit you're heading for a very disappointing middle age. In my opinion.
He'll always have hookers.
That and Alfalfa's He-Man Woman Haters' Club...

[bandmommy]

I know how 'visual' men are. Women are too. Except we are able to see with more than One eye. I think 99.999% of the guys here will agree with the list of what makes a 'Real' woman.

Real women aren't obcessed with the latest fashion and going to the Gym.
Real women have no guilt after eating a big juicy Cheese Burger.
Real women aren't impressed by how 'fit' a man is.
Real women embrace the changes in their bodies that come from bearing children and getting older in general.
Real women are happy sitting with a bunch of 'Nerds' and 'Geeks' and just laughing.
Real women come in all shapes and sizes.
And the most important thing about Real women;
We love those Geeks and Nerds with every fiber of our being, bear their children, and stand by them no matter what.
Real women understand that Mother Nature and Gravity will take over their bodies.

I've got a few wrinkles, crow's feet, and a LOT of grey hair. I have earned every last one. The crows feet come from laughing with my Husband and children. The wrinkles come from worry when they are out in the world and praying that they are safe. The grey hair is the sign of age and wisdom and should be respected.

Any other men who would like to add to the list of what a Real woman is....
Heath needs an education.

[Grumps]

I know how 'visual' men are. Women are too. Except we are able to see with more than One eye.
An eye towards what then, the wallet? Though I have taken issue with Heath in the past in regard to gender matters, women still seek a mate who is a provider, and will give any guy a chance who meets that criteria. With women expected to work in today's marketplace, it's not as much in the forefront, but they still need someone to stick around and help care for the kids; or one that has enough assets to provide for same in absentia. There are still the dumb ones though. But they'll find guys like Heath...

[bandmommy]

Point taken Grumps.
Do you think most women go for a less wealthy guy who treats her with kindness and respect over a rich one who is a self centered jerk.

[Carl H.]

From my own experience, women prefer a man who is around, not out gigging 5-7 nights a week. If they don't mind never seeing you, you don't have a good one.

[bandmommy]

My man is gone 12 days and nights, and home for 2. I hate not seeing him. But that's how it is. He knows he's got a good one at home waiting for him.
As soon as that rig pulls into the yard I'm out the door and climbing in for a hug. :D

[Grumps]

Do you think most women go for a less wealthy guy who treats her with kindness and respect over a rich one who is a self centered jerk.
They'll go for the jerk nearly every time. You see, a woman will marry a man thinking they can change them; but they never can. Just as a man will marry a woman hoping she'll never change; but they always do.

[LampLight]

Okay, we have different ideas about what percent of the time women will go for the jerk. But Grumps doesn't seem to disagree with bandmommy's basic point, and the thing that ought to matter to any specific man reading this is what choice he himself makes. IMNSHO, bandmommy is laying out the real deal.

[RootyTootoot]

They'll go for the jerk nearly every time. You see, a woman will marry a man thinking they can change them; but they never can. Just as a man will marry a woman hoping she'll never change; but they always do.

Grumps, that's a nice turn of phrase but there's one thing wrong with it, namely, that it's not true ;) . I choose to believe that it is possible for both men and women to be slightly less bonkers than your scenario would suggest.

[Sorba]

Just stay away from chinese produced botox. Sure it's good value for money, but after some time you'll grow tired of the tone and wish you bought the expensive vintage botox, the kind made from handmade bacteria!

[bandmommy]

I'm not an advocate for injecting your face with any sort of toxin, but what are the views on Stencil Botox?

[Dave Wright]

Real women are happy sitting with a bunch of 'Nerds' and 'Geeks' and just laughing.


You'll feel at home here then:)

What's stencil botox?

[bandmommy]

Chinese botox- Cheap sax
Vintage/handmade botox-GOOD sax
Stencil botox-Conn Pan American sax

[heath]

An eye towards what then, the wallet? Though I have taken issue with Heath in the past in regard to gender matters, women still seek a mate who is a provider, and will give any guy a chance who meets that criteria. With women expected to work in today's marketplace, it's not as much in the forefront, but they still need someone to stick around and help care for the kids; or one that has enough assets to provide for same in absentia. There are still the dumb ones though. But they'll find guys like Heath...


That might be one of the biggest problems today. With many career women earning the same pay as men, I've always found it hard to keep the good times rolling with a women that earns the same amount as me. And if she earns more, I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that relationship is going nowhere. Who wants a ball buster women. I've watched guys that take orders from there wives because they bring more pay home and personally it makes me want to puke. And then there's the mister moms that got it all wrong when women starting bringing home the bacon. It's not natural for a guy to want to sit at home changing diapers, I've never changed a diaper in my life and never will. Men need to be men and women need to be women. Deep down I think most women appreciate and agree with this view.

[heath]

I know how 'visual' men are. Women are too. Except we are able to see with more than One eye. I think 99.999% of the guys here will agree with the list of what makes a 'Real' woman.

Real women aren't obcessed with the latest fashion and going to the Gym.
Real women have no guilt after eating a big juicy Cheese Burger.
Real women aren't impressed by how 'fit' a man is.
Real women embrace the changes in their bodies that come from bearing children and getting older in general.
Real women are happy sitting with a bunch of 'Nerds' and 'Geeks' and just laughing.
Real women come in all shapes and sizes.
And the most important thing about Real women;
We love those Geeks and Nerds with every fiber of our being, bear their children, and stand by them no matter what.
Real women understand that Mother Nature and Gravity will take over their bodies.


That list is fine with me band mommy, but I do think a little personal responsibility is a good thing. I can't have my women sitting around eating cheeseburgers. I'm sorry but letting your body go just because it's easy is kind of gross. I've seen women at the gym that have had a couple of kids and in their middle 40's and I find them to look very good in lycra. One of my cyclist friends is in her late 40's and I find myself admiring her fine form on many occasions.

[Grumps]

Grumps, that's a nice turn of phrase but there's one thing wrong with it, namely, that it's not true ;) . I choose to believe that it is possible for both men and women to be slightly less bonkers than your scenario would suggest.
Ahhh, but remember... it's a really rich jerk. Not just your run of the mill jerk. And speaking of which, I think we need to find Heath the right Dominatrix. Seriously.

[bandmommy]

A little FYI heath,
I'm 5'3'', and 135lbs of muscle. You see I live on a farm. I carry a 50 pound sack of feed on each shoulder. I bale and stack hay as well as any man. I can put a 250 pound sheep on its butt and shear it while it fights to get up.

We heat our home with wood. I use the cainsaw to cut to length, then I split it with an ax. This is on top of taking care of the house, driving kids to and from activities, and working 2 part time jobs. My husband is only home 4 days a month so you see I work very hard. Even after having 3 kids my hiney is as tight as any 20 year old and have biceps that are better than most of the guys on our High School football team. I"m fit and strong.

For almost a year my husband was without a job. I earned the money to keep things going. He had no problem taking on many of the household chores until he could find employment. He drove the kids around and really enjoyed getting to know them better. And yes, he did change diapers when they were babies. Real men do that. They're called Fathers.

Have I taken it easy and let myself go? Not by a long shot. You couldn't do what I do in a day. If I want a cheese burger, I'm going to eat a cheese burger. Does my husband care that I ate that cheese burger? Not when he sees me working beside him. Does he care that I have wrinkles and grey hair? Not at all. He knows where they came from. Am I a Ball Buster? You bet your life city boy.

[Dave Wright]

That might be one of the biggest problems today. With many career women earning the same pay as men, I've always found it hard to keep the good times rolling with a women that earns the same amount as me. And if she earns more, I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that relationship is going nowhere. Who wants a ball buster women. I've watched guys that take orders from there wives because they bring more pay home and personally it makes me want to puke. And then there's the mister moms that got it all wrong when women starting bringing home the bacon. It's not natural for a guy to want to sit at home changing diapers, I've never changed a diaper in my life and never will. Men need to be men and women need to be women. Deep down I think most women appreciate and agree with this view.

Oh Heath wake up man, this is the 00's. You're only in your 30's aren't you?
I bet theres a large amount of semi-pro or even pro sax players here, that share bringing in the income and looking after the kids with their partner. Men even get maternal leave these days!
You might change your view if you ever have a kid. Think of all that extra practice time for starters!


One of my cyclist friends is in her late 40's and I find myself admiring her fine form on many occasions.


Lol.

[heath]

Oh Heath wake up man, this is the 00's. You're only in your 30's aren't you?
I bet theres a large amount of semi-pro or even pro sax players here, that share bringing in the income and looking after the kids with their partner. Men even get maternal leave these days!
You might change your view if you ever have a kid. Think of all that extra practice time for starters!

Yeah but a mans nature is to be aggressive, that doesn't mean kicking the door in and beating people over the head, but it does when directed into something positive get a lot more done than hanging around the house waiting for the next bowel movement.

[RootyTootoot]

I can't have my women sitting around eating cheeseburgers.


LOL. You've now created this hilarious image of a harem of cheeseburger-eating women who get a good telling off when you get home from one of your frequent bicycle rides. heath, I do often wonder if you exaggerate your views a bit (quite a bit), just for everyone's amusement. If so, good for you. If not, still, good for you but I think you may have to agree that bandmommy's last post put you on your butt just like one of her sheep. ;)

[Dog Pants]

Avoid the whole debate. Find me a good looking sheep. :D

Now if sheep could cook...???;)

[LampLight]

A little FYI heath . . . I work very hard. Even after having 3 kids my hiney is as tight as any 20 year old and have biceps that are better than most of the guys on our High School football team. I"m fit and strong. . . .
So bandmommy, why don't you just go kick Heath's *ss and settle this thing? :D

. . . I've watched guys that take orders from there wives because they bring more pay home and personally it makes me want to puke. . . .
Heath: I'd want to puke too, but that's not how it works for most people. I earn several times what my wife makes, but we don't give each other orders; the very thought of one of us giving the other orders is revolting. With out thinking about it, we define what manhood and womanhood mean for us the way most people do: Two at a time, in a way that suits us, and with respect. That's what real men really do.

Now, you're obviously telling us about the things you've seen, and that's just how it is. But here's the deal: Either there's a prettier world of relationships out there than the one you've seen so far or there isn't. Which way are you better off?

[heath]

Avoid the whole debate. Find me a good looking sheep. :D

Now if sheep could cook...???;)

Wouldn't we all be happier if all it took to make us happy was finding the right sheep. BandMommies sheep always look cute.

[Carl H.]

I'd agree that BM is MUCH more of a "man" than Heath by almost anybodies measure of manliness, but she is still a babe. The godmother of my daughter is cut from the same cloth as BM too - except she raises pigs and boys.

As narrow as your description of a man as you have you will never succeed in being one - old boy sounds more like it. Macho is BS and until you get past it you've got problems.

[bandmommy]

Thanks Carl,
You have to admit that when we 'manly' farm girls clean up, we're pretty darn 'womanly'. ;) :D

[Carl H.]

Yes indeed!

[hakukani]

My wife makes more money than me. She has a PhD--I don't. Who gives a sh** about money, anyway, as long as you have enough? (enough for me is the ability to buy what I want, when I want it, and never have to worry about bills--otherwise known as not living from paycheck to paycheck). Others get along with much less, depending on their tastes.

[Grumps]

I would wish that my wife would make more than I, however then I'd probably just lose income. You know how wishes work...

[retread]

I've watched guys that take orders from there wives because they bring more pay home and personally it makes me want to puke.
heath, you're old enough now to learn the primary fact of life. All men take orders from women. But the really skillful women disguise their orders and we end up thinking it was our idea.

[Carl H.]

Unless you prefer to take orders from the other gender, not that there's anything wrong with that...

[jazzbluescat]

Unless you prefer to take order from the other gender, not that there's anything wrong with that...
curve ball...