Baritone treble vs. bass clef?

[jaysne]

I am a band director and in the scores there is music for both Baritone Treble Clef and Baritone Bass Clef.

Are these two different instruments, or are they the same music for the same instrument, just transposed for the two clefs because some people learn the baritone horn reading bass clef and some treble clef?

[divisi]

Are you kidding me?
Have you looked at the music? If you did you would be able to answer your own question. What school did you get your degree from?

[asaxman]

It's baritone HORN, not saxophone. Baritone horn parts are commonly written in both clefs.

[divisi]

I know he meant baritone horn!!! My questions stand.

[hakukani]

Many times in public school bands, the director will need a baritone player. Since many bands have many trumpets, a band director might just ask a trumpet player to switch to baritone. It's an easier switch to read baritone parts in treble clef, and so a treble clef part is included.

'Real' baritone players play bass clef.

This really should have been covered in brass methods class.

[divisi]

This really should have been covered in brass methods class.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!


Or you could just compare the parts.

[jaysne]

I appreciate the information from people who gave me a good answer.

I don't appreciate people who feel it necessary to give smart-aleck responses. For all of the knowledge out there, some of it doesn't reach everybody, including things that may be painfully obvious to others.

When you don't know something, you ask someone who does. That's one of the purposes of this forum--to share knowledge. If you can't do that gracefully and constructively, then don't waste your and everybody's time giving an answer that doesn't help anything.

[asaxman]

I know he meant baritone horn!!! My questions stand. This IS SAX on the web!

[divisi]

This IS SAX on the web!


But there is no such thing as baritone sax bass clef in any score that I have ever seen.

[fred12]

divisi - Well, there is, kind of. When the trombone in our big band is absent I (the unfortunate bari player) have to play the 'bone part, which is in bass clef.
This means playing it as if it were a treble clef, adding 3 half tones to the key signature, and raising all F, C and G accidentals by a half tone. Then I go home and have a stiff drink. Tough going for a novice player. But possible.

[hakukani]

This IS SAX on the web!


The OP posted in the correct section, that is, 'brasswinds'. There is likewise a clarinet section. Would you guys expect a sax question there?

I've certainly seen some pretty silly questions about saxes on this forum.

Jaysne, your question is definitely in order, and definitely keep asking them. My crack about brass methods was critical of your music ed profs, not you personally.

[Dog Pants]

What do they put in the water at those big music colleges???

Or is there a class called "Now you've got you degree....how to be a pretentious ***hole 101." ???

There's no need to insult the guy for asking an honest quetion. No one knows it all, (except teenage kids and music school graduates).

Why not just help the guy out without the added extras???

[asaxman]

Sorry, I didn't notice the brasswinds. Still, any band director should surely know that baritone horn parts are written in both clefs. I knew this in the 7th grade band!

[Dog Pants]

In 7th grade, I knew "Mary had a little lamb." :D ;)

And I had a crush on one of my teachers. Didn't come to anything. Turned out she was having an affair with the School Captain, so as a year 7 kid, I never stood a chance. Don't know what happened to the school Captain, but she went on to have a long and largely undistinguished career in Federal politics.

Ahhhh Cheryl, if only. :D

Actully, she was an alright looker back in the 7th grade. Kinda went downhill from there.

[Mark5047]

DP

Are you confusing this with the randomness thread? Or should we be worried about you?

[Dog Pants]

DP

Are you confusing this with the randomness thread? Or should we be worried about you?

No need to worry. Just reminiscing about the old school days. The Aussies here will know what I'm referring to.

Our school captain was a legend. One of the few people to actually do to a politician, what politicians usually do to us.

[jaysne]

Jaysne, your question is definitely in order, and definitely keep asking them. My crack about brass methods was critical of your music ed profs, not you personally.

Thanks.

Our section concerning non-trombone lower brass happened during a one-hour lecture given by one of the school's euphonium players.

As I mentioned before, it's quite impossible to cover everything there is to know about a certain instrument. And heck, it may even be that she talked about treble/bass clef, and I just didn't remember. I doubt anybody here remembers everything they were taught in school!

[jaysne]

Sorry, I didn't notice the brasswinds. Still, any band director should surely know that baritone horn parts are written in both clefs. I knew this in the 7th grade band!

I KNOW that baritone parts are written in both clefs. That wasn't my question.

And so what if I didn't know? That's why people come here, to get information that they don't know. It's quite rude to suggest that people are faulty in some way because they ask questions you know the answer to. If you know the answer, why not just provide it politely?

[jaysne]

What do they put in the water at those big music colleges???

Or is there a class called "Now you've got you degree....how to be a pretentious ***hole 101." ???

There's no need to insult the guy for asking an honest quetion. No one knows it all, (except teenage kids and music school graduates).

Why not just help the guy out without the added extras???

Thank you, Dog Pants--my sentiments exactly. I'm continually amazed by the amount of rudeness on this forum. People who ask simple, honest questions are barraged with insults by folks who should know better. Why do people give insulting replies? So they can show everyone how smart they are and how dumb everyone else is? Give me a break.

[hakukani]

Look, I gave you the answer to your question. I'm sorry that your brass methods class was inadequate. Time to get on with life, and maybe grow a thicker skin---you'll need it.

[Jonathan C.]

What instrument do you play?

I too knew this in 7th or 8th grade. I had to take the same years so many times they are kinda well... blurred together. :evil: ;)

[saxandstrings86]

I'll try my best not to sound insulting, but in my music ed classes, this has been covered in three separate classes...low brass methods, instrumental conducting, and orchestration. From my own educational experiences, I would have expected that you would have known this before you started student teaching, much less before teaching out on your own.

I do understand though that it is a lot to take in in the methods classes, as ours met once a week at 8am for one hour, usually with two or three instruments to cover in the semester. some info just slips through, but it is something that needs to be in common knowledge for you as a director, which I think is what brought the reaction from some members.

But for all we know, you could be a vocalist who got stuck with a band program because the job was there and haven't read an instrumental score since second year undergrad...we would assume that isn't the case since you came to the SOTW forums, leaving us to guess you're a sax player and most likely spent undergrad performance requirements in concert bands or the like, and would have been in an instrumental heavy course load.

I'm sure no one meant any serious insult to you, it just caught some of us off guard that this isn't common knowledge to everyone, because it is to us.

Also, just a point of clarification, make sure to check over some more advanced rep when there are two parts for baritone (treble and bass) because I've seen soem pieces that actually are two completely different parts, such as Ralph Vaughn Williams' "Folk Song Suite" which has two distinct baritone parts, one treble, one bass.

Take care, and good luck

[jaysne]

Look, I gave you the answer to your question. I'm sorry that your brass methods class was inadequate. Time to get on with life, and maybe grow a thicker skin---you'll need it.

No no, not to worry. You did indeed give me a polite, constructive answer. I was just addressing others who meted out snide replies.

[lowbrasscrew]

I play bass clef, but I started on treble. I suggest that the Euph players in your band should learn both, because there are some pieces that only have one clef. Euph is a transitional instrument.