Bit dissappointed with the Lamberson Fmaj7 alto mpc

[Ken]

I finally got this mpc this week and tried it. My first impressions were that it sounded a bit sad, lacking edge. This is what I usually find with alto mpcs that don't work for me. I've had similar experience with stock Meyers. I also found it has too much resistance.

I've switched to Lambersons on both Tenor (L7) and Bari (DD7), so I was hoping to get similar results with the Fmaj7. I tried an M7 .09" tip a year ago and that sounded similar to my existing Lakey 5 3 mpc but it was too open for me and I wanted something less bright. So I ordered the Fmaj7 .08" tip and was looking forward to trying it out. But so far it hasn't been what I hoped. I use Rico Royal 3's. I got better results after changing to another reed but it still has the same issues.

Since these are so hard to get, I'll probably keep this piece and see if I can work with it. Does anyone have any suggestions for what to try next, reeds etc? I'd also be interested in hearing mpc recommendations from anyone for whom Fmaj7 or Meyers don't work for them. Thanks.

[EZ]

Have you tried it with a Fibracell? That would very likely improve the response and get a little more liveliness in the tone. At that tip, I'd recommend a Fibracell Premier 2.5. Could also go with a Vandoren ZZ or Java 2.5 or 3.

I've freed up a few Lambersons by tweaking them, but due to the value of the piece, I recommend trying some other reeds first. Or just sell it.

[Dr G]

Have you talked with Fred about your experience and expectations?

My experience - especially with Fred's less edgy mouthpieces, is that you need to work with them for a while. Once you learn how to blow them, they can have edge on demand. Granted, I don't play alto. That has been my experience with the L, J, and Fmaj7 tenor mouthpieces.

Fred has told me before that he uses V16 reeds. You'll get more edge with a softer strength reed as well.

What ligature are you using? A Rovner will kill the sound - I prefer something like the Ultimate or Optimum ligs (without a lot of pressure on the reed).

[tjontheroad]

The Lamberson altos mps I've tried have all been more resistant than his other pitches including the alto Fmaj7 I got in the same batch as yours. I've talk some about it here;
http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66636

By contrast, the Fmaj7 sop mp I have is very easy blowing.

I think you should try going down a reed and taking some more adjustment time with your new mp.

[Rackety Sax]

The Lamberson altos mps I've tried have all been more resistant than his other pitches including the alto Fmaj7 I got in the same batch as yours. I've talk some about it here;
http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66636

By contrast, the Fmaj7 sop mp I have is very easy blowing.

I think you should try going down a reed and taking some more adjustment time with your new mp.
I also got one from this batch. I think you've characterized it correctly, it's a pretty dark, focused, yet powerful mouthpiece due to its very solid core. Different than what I'm used to playing. I like it a lot, but about the same time I got this I got a Phil-tone from Sigmund451 that just feels like it matches my tonal concept and playing style perfectly. So while I think the FMaj7 is an excellent mouthpiece, it's not my first choice at the moment, but it is one that I could learn to play and be very happy with I'm quite sure.

People will get sick of me and my Phil-tone blather, but if you are looking for something else to try, Philip has been promising to make a pass around mouthpiece available for trial. Why don't you pester him and see if he'll send you one to try out. If nothing else, once someone else tries one and chimes in with a positive or negative review I'll probably pipe down about it a little.

[fballatore]

It's interesting how this works...

I just received my Fmaj7 about 10 days ago, and found that it has a bit more edge than I expected. I'm using a ZZ 3 reed and Vandoren Optimum lig on it. It doesn't feel any more resistant than the Morgan or Barone pieces I was using before.

[Michael Ward]

Ken I use Fred's pieces on bari and tenor and they are great. On alto I like the Morgan 6M..with a Superial reed it will do everything and has power to spare. I was also really impressed with the JJ HR 6M which although a little plasticy in comparison to the Morgan is a nice Meyer type piece. Since screwing up my piece about ten years ago I've tried nearly everything out there and the Morgan is excellent.

[swid441]

I had the Fmaj and thought it was not what I was looking for. I've also tried the SB and the DD. I finally ended up with the Lamberson M. I really dig this piece. The JJ HR is a nice little piece with some real guts. You might like the RPC's too.

[Ken]

Thanks tj for that link.

Going to a softer reed seems to match what I found too. My current reed is on the hard side, so I switched to my previous reed which was softer, and there was an improvement. But it still needs work. I only blew it for 20 minutes or so. The other thing is that the Lakey is such an easy blowing mpc (I guess because of the baffle) that I'm probably going from one extreme to the other.

BTW, I bought this through a dealer so I don't think I would have much recourse with Fred. I'm using Fred's ligature.

I've heard good things about the Morgan as well. I use one on clarinet.

I may also try a Lamberson M6 if they become available again.

[tjontheroad]

I also got one from this batch. I think you've characterized it correctly, it's a pretty dark, focused, yet powerful mouthpiece due to its very solid core. Different than what I'm used to playing. I like it a lot, but about the same time I got this I got a Phil-tone from Sigmund451 that just feels like it matches my tonal concept and playing style perfectly. So while I think the FMaj7 is an excellent mouthpiece, it's not my first choice at the moment, but it is one that I could learn to play and be very happy with I'm quite sure.

It is very powerful and rich sounding without being bright. The high resistance can be a good thing while making the player to push harder thus bringing out all that great tone. I think it's just a different animal that requires taming to get the most out of it. Given time, I think it could be the "Holy Grail" that it's hype up to be. If you're looking for something that's gonna give an instant convincing WOW moment, you might look elsewhere. While I'm still using my M.C. Gregory Master Model most times, everytime so far I played on the Fmaj7 I liked it more than the last.

[tjontheroad]

Thanks tj for that link.

Going to a softer reed seems to match what I found too. My current reed is on the hard side, so I switched to my previous reed which was softer, and there was an improvement. But it still needs work. I only blew it for 20 minutes or so. The other thing is that the Lakey is such an easy blowing mpc (I guess because of the baffle) that I'm probably going from one extreme to the other.

BTW, I bought this through a dealer so I don't think I would have much recourse with Fred. I'm using Fred's ligature.

I've heard good things about the Morgan as well. I use one on clarinet.

I may also try a Lamberson M6 if they become available again.

I'll report back to that thread when I get my reed order from Roberto's.

[Rackety Sax]

Another issue that may be relevant here: I measured my .080" tip opening FMaj7 and it is more like .085" on my gauge. I asked Fred and he confirmed that what he sent was an .080". So it may be that these run a little more open than advertised, which would suggest the need for a softer reed.

Anyone else measured their Lamberson tip opening?

[leftyfreak]

When I first got my Fmaj7, I was switching over from a Meyer 6 with which I had used Java 3 reeds. Initially, I needed to back off a half strength to 2 1/2 Javas as I got familiar with the Fmaj7. After a week or so I was back to Java 3 on it, albeit with a bit more resistance than the Meyer. I have no GAS whatsoever for alto mouthpieces anymore.

Spend some quality time with your Fmaj7 and see what you think after a couple of weeks. Good luck!

[guido]

Not bright enough? I'll trade you a very slightly used 6SD for it (with a little cash to balance things). PM if interested.

[Turnaround]

Not bright enough? I'll trade you a very slightly used 6SD for it (with a little cash to balance things). PM if interested.

You're selling this piece?!! This is a great piece. Nice bright tone, but with a good core to it. It was too bright for me, but I enjoy darker pieces. This would be a great trade for the Fmaj7 (which I just got one as well. Tip opening was .86, and it still is too bright for me, but I think I need to live with it for some time. I thought it was going to be much darker).

[Rackety Sax]

You're selling this piece?!! This is a great piece. Nice bright tone, but with a good core to it. It was too bright for me, but I enjoy darker pieces. This would be a great trade for the Fmaj7 (which I just got one as well. Tip opening was .86, and it still is too bright for me, but I think I need to live with it for some time. I thought it was going to be much darker).
UAWS, what tip opening did you specify when you ordered it?

[Turnaround]

.86 actually if he could. I have a few pieces that I play right around that opening so I thought that would be a good choice. I don't know if I just got lucky.

[CardinalRule]

I also play a Lamberson and it took awhile to dial it in. And I'm glad I did because I love the piece! I went to his house and he at first had me try an FMaj. We were both suprised that I just didn't like it and I couldn't get that "zing" from it that I was used to with my Myer 5. He then had me try a 5SB and that's what I took home (this was about 3 years ago, so I wasn't "cutting in line":) )

Like a lot of folks are saying here, it took switching to softer reeds and another brand, a drag at first but it's been worth it. I also feel that it helped me to relax my embouchure a bit: I'd gotten in a habit of tightening and kind of forcing the Myer around. I'm actually back to my old strength reeds and feel that my embouchure is better now. Anyone else experience this?

I say keep it and work on it for a while--it took me about 5 or 6 months and I love the flexibility and projection I have with mine.

Best of luck

[Rackety Sax]

.86 actually if he could. I have a few pieces that I play right around that opening so I thought that would be a good choice. I don't know if I just got lucky.
Interesting, precisely what my .080" measures.

[tjontheroad]

Repeated post from the other mentioned thread;

Well, I just got the 2.5 hards in and it's like playing a whole different mouthpiece. It's now more punchy and brighter yet still full sounding. Much more easy blowing. Downside is that both the top and bottom of the horn are less responsive. Low end at B and Bb have a slight gurgle. The top end from the front E up have become a greater challenge. So, It's still a work in progress. I have faith in Fred. Now I need some faith in myself :)

[Rackety Sax]

I had a chance to play the Phil-tone and FMaj7 side by side this morning. I'd have to say they strike me as excellent but very different mouthpieces. I know that not everyone will agree with my characterization of the Lamberson, and also please keep in mind that my time on it is limited, but I'll go ahead and try to describe the differences as I perceive them. The FMaj7 strikes me as very much a "power" mouthpiece, but it achieves its power with a strong focused core and a tone that is remarkably smooth and dark sound given its power. I feel that it likes a strong, very directed airstream. The Phil-tone is a freer-blowing mouthpiece that can easily be played soft or, by using a very broad, well-supported airstream, quite powerfully as well. It's a livelier, more resonant sound than the Lamberson - some might say brighter or buzzier, maybe I would prefer "more brilliant," because this is by no means an edgy mouthpiece. If I were looking for something to blow over top of a loud band the nod would probably go to the Lamberson.

Let me stress that while I'm particularly digging the Phil-tone, the Lamberson feels like a great mouthpiece with just a different orientation than what I'm most into at the moment.

[Rackety Sax]

I finally got this mpc this week and tried it. My first impressions were that it sounded a bit sad, lacking edge. This is what I usually find with alto mpcs that don't work for me. I've had similar experience with stock Meyers. I also found it has too much resistance.

I've switched to Lambersons on both Tenor (L7) and Bari (DD7), so I was hoping to get similar results with the Fmaj7. I tried an M7 .09" tip a year ago and that sounded similar to my existing Lakey 5 3 mpc but it was too open for me and I wanted something less bright. So I ordered the Fmaj7 .08" tip and was looking forward to trying it out. But so far it hasn't been what I hoped. I use Rico Royal 3's. I got better results after changing to another reed but it still has the same issues.

Since these are so hard to get, I'll probably keep this piece and see if I can work with it. Does anyone have any suggestions for what to try next, reeds etc? I'd also be interested in hearing mpc recommendations from anyone for whom Fmaj7 or Meyers don't work for them. Thanks.
Ken, a couple more comments after re-reading your post.

First, I find that a Java 2.5 is plenty hard on my FMaj7. I know there's a lot of individuality between players, but I would definitely suggest that you try a softer reed.

Second, the one Lakey I tried was a very thin, edgy piece - I'm not surprised that you don't feel at home on the Lamberson right away. These are two dramatically different mouthpieces. Making a switch of this magnitude will definitely take some time and experimentation to adapt to these very different mouthpiece styles.

[Rackety Sax]

Oh, I also compared the FMaj7 to a Lamberson M I've got here. The M also has that very strong Lamberson core, but is a more brilliant mouthpiece and blows a little more freely. I still wouldn't apply the word "edgy" to the M, but with its added brilliance it bumps the power quotient up a notch over the FMaj7.

[Ken]

I agree, the Lakey and Lamberson are very different pieces. I'll just have to keep working with it and see how it goes.

I'd also like to get an M6 next but unfortunately it looks like Fred has stopped making these. I wonder why. Not enough demand? Or maybe there was not enough difference from his other pieces.

[Rackety Sax]

I agree, the Lakey and Lamberson are very different pieces. I'll just have to keep working with it and see how it goes.

I'd also like to get an M6 next but unfortunately it looks like Fred has stopped making these. I wonder why. Not enough demand? Or maybe there was not enough difference from his other pieces.
I believe Fred feels that the M and FMaj7 were similar but the latter was preferred by most customers. Maybe make a "WTB" post in the marketplace to see if anyone's got an M to get rid of.

[larrys]

It took me a couple of weeks to figure out how to make this mouthpiece work for me. I use the Vandoren leather ligature with a metal plate and Alexander DC 2.5's on my Fmaj7 alto. ...Lots of power and a really nice core to the sound. It's amazing how loud it can get and still produce great tone.) I love this mouthpiece.

[Ken]

Well, it's been a year since I posted this thread, and going down from a 3 to a 2 1/2 reed (Rico Royal). It's taken a while but I was playing the alto today and was happy with the sound. It just shows that it can take a while to get the most out of a new mouthpiece.

I also have an M5 which has a smaller opening (.07"") that I use with a 3 reed and it also has a good sound, always did, brighter but still good.

[shmuelyosef]

Another issue that may be relevant here: I measured my .080" tip opening FMaj7 and it is more like .085" on my gauge. I asked Fred and he confirmed that what he sent was an .080". So it may be that these run a little more open than advertised, which would suggest the need for a softer reed.

Anyone else measured their Lamberson tip opening?

My 7SB was also confirmed as .080, but I measure it as .086 so this might be consistent...wonder if fred uses micrometer or a tip wand?

The 7SB is VERY free-blowing and not too bright. It was my main piece until six months ago when I got a Saxscape Wilton...I might try a Wilton Dark sometime.