The Martin Tenor Official Music Man Model

[mpcbliss]

I've owned many The Martin's, but never saw one like this. It's inscribed "Official Music Man Model".
I understand there was some tie-in with the '62 film of that name, as the serial number fits that year.
According to saxgourmet's site, it's extremely rare "but fabulous" (his words).
Can someone give me the info on this, please?? Is it rare and getting a premium?? Yes, mine's orig lac in terrific shape w/ neck sn matching.
The only online reference I can find is the aforementioned saxgourmet and a currently-listed Music Man alto at Rummelhoff Music for $3000.
I have a lot of things in storage for years, and most every time I sell the less-familiar items for a fraction of what turns out to be their value (like vintage Links, which I mostly sold under $100) since I get somewhat impatient once they're sitting back in the living room in plain view.
I'd like to for once know what's going on before being taken to the cleaners due to my ignorance.
So if one of you aficionadi could steer me in the right direction, 'twould be appreciated.
Is there any difference in features, etc???
Did they only make them that one year??
Is it in fact tied in with the film?
And do they command top dollar??
Thanks for any clues, and pls pardon me if this inquiry is one of those asked-a-thousand-times-before sorts.

[Sigmund451]

I dont know if features are signficantly different but they are quite rare, especially in good shape. They do command a premium, they were very limited in production and the are tied to the film. Thats what I know.

[paulwl]

I dont know if features are signficantly different
They have the improved Think System keywork which allows you to flugel the Minute Waltz in 45 seconds! :lol:

[Martin]

I've got one in an alto.
Amazing sound.

[MJ]

No voice of player experience here, but I bought a MM tenor a couple months ago on EBay that needed some work. Paid about $650 for it and put another $140 into it for some dent, solder and pad work. After my own gerry-rigging a little with cork, the sax sounds sweet and mellow even with me playing.
The horn would need a complete overhaul to reach its full potential, something I plan on within the year. For now, we get along pretty well and she just hums along fine. The sound is very nice.
I can't compare my Handcraft Imperial alto and this Music Man tenor, because the alto is in great adjustment. The tenor, however, has the best sound for jazz and ballads, in my inexperienced opinion.
Maybe some courageous forum member could query Mr. Goodson to explain his Music Man assessment in detail.

[Sigmund451]

Man, from everything I read, overhaul or not you stole that sax. Good job :wink:

[mpcbliss]

Thanks for your input.
However, saxes needing overhauls, dentwork or soldering (you didn't mention lac condition and originality) are so heavily discounted (most people don't want 'em, thus no bidding competition) that it gets away from the question:

What would be the approximate premium one might expect for a Martin Official Music Man Model tenor with great orig lac, sharp engraving, no dents or dings, matching sn neck in good playing condition? Not a museum piece, but really really nice.

I have seen plain Martin pro tenors in this condition range from $1000 to $2000+ (just finished on ebay). Just depends on phase of the moon, as far as I can tell. Around $16-1700 seems comfortable for most closes.
And those are commonplace.
Since there are so few of the MM Model around, I'm hoping
the folks who keep a regular eye on the marketplace can maybe provide a hint from memories of the semi-recent past.
And thanks to those who have posted to date.

[Sigmund451]

A Music Man should go for a considerable amount more than a The Martin standard if for no other reason than its very limited production. I'd say on a good day...and perhaps ebay is not the best place to sell one of these, you could be looking at an easy 2000, maybe more. But again, depends on who and how much they want it. Id suggest that one in good shape with a good finish would be a pretty rare find....especially in Martins that like to shed lacquer like a snake sheds skin (all that deep engraving).

[Jerry K.]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that the MusicMan model came late in the production of the The Martin horns. As such, they are not considered to be the best of the production run. I wouldn't expect them to sell for more than a few hundred dollars more than the same serial number range standard The Martin horn in the same condition. I don't believe they have any additional features outside of the addition of the "Official MusicMan Model" engraving.

[Sigmund451]

You may be correct but they are appraised at higher costs on the basis of rarity, Im not suggesting they are better horns...I have no Idea of that. Cost does not always equal quality. There is plenty of junk in antique stores that is valuable simply on the basis of rarity.

[mpcbliss]

Jerry K- I've seen the ads from old trade mags, and they are from '61-'62. I don't know if you'd consider that "late" or not.
They do have at least one obvious feature: the adjusting device for the neck octave key. Verrrry cool.
It's been quite a while since I've had a vintage Martin, but I don't believe other models had this or I would have been impressed by it.....pls correct me if this is incorrect.
Sigmund is also correct re rarity value not having anything to do with functional value. Is a 5-digit MkVI functionally different from many 6-digits??? Yet they've got the buzz, and thus a premium is paid.
Or a mis-minted coin from an everyday coin?
Numbered, limited edition print or book from a non-numbered??
Etc.

Note further, from saxpics.com: the MMM is reputed to have the best intonation and ballsiness of all Martins.
Added to saxgourmet's singling it out on his site.
Added to Rummelhoff Music listing a relac alto at $3000 (tho they got the date wrong)
Hasn't anyone seen one on a dealer site in the last coupla years???? And possibly remembered the price? I could then determine a real-world price from that.
I just want to figure out what an ebay reserve should be so that it gets sold without me reading here about another one going for 4x the price 6 months later (as has happened too too many times in the past).
I never want top-dollar, but I do want to know what that is so that my price is discounted appropriately rather than suicidally.
Many thanks to all participants.

[Jerry K.]

I have been watching Martin values in general for several years and I have not personally seen MusicMan models going for significantly more than the regular The Martins. I doubt the music store mentioned will ever get anything near $3000 for the horn they have for sale. If I were you I would list on ebay with a $100 starting bid, a $1500 reserve and a Buy it Now of around $3000 if you still think they are worth that. I would also mention in the listing that the reserve is lower than the Buy it Now price. Otherwise people may get discouraged and not bid.

This nice example The Martin Alto just went for $1032 on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2566846567

I am currently looking for a great playing The Martin and would probably not pay more than $1000 unless I could actually play the horn first and even then I would be hard pressed to pay a lot more. As a player and not a collector, I only value playing condition and overall condition as I'm looking for a horn. The MusicMan designation would add little value for me personally.

[BigDaddyJ]

Here's a pretty damn nice alto with a low reserve:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2568853109&category=16 232

I prefer brass keys myself, but this on looks just about mint.

[Hornlip]

Added to Rummelhoff Music listing a relac alto at $3000 (tho they got the date wrong)
Hasn't anyone seen one on a dealer site in the last coupla years???? And possibly remembered the price?

$3000 is waaaaay high for any Martin alto, unless it's gold plated & specially engraved, or something. Especially if it's a relac. I'm surprised that the eBay horn referenced above got over $1000 -- seems to me The Martin altos usually top out in the $800's, but the lacquer on that one is in pretty good shape (rare for The Martin horns), so it may have commanded a premium b/c of that. Maybe a collector who's been looking for a "Music Man" might pay that much, but I would be surprised.

One problem with the rare Martin horns is that nobody's heard of 'em, so they don't grab a premium. I nabbed a "Centennial" alto in beautiful shape a couple of months ago for under $500. I think it flew under the radar b/c nobody had heard of it. It pretty much seems to be a Committee II horn with a lot of "The Martin" features and keywork. It's a great horn, but probably not significantly better than the Comm. II or The Martin.

I've never played a "Music Man", but I would venture to say that in a blindfold test you couldn't tell a significant difference between it & a regular "The Martin". I think the rarer horns may get a little hyped up in folk's imagination -- for instance, I've heard people insist that the "Dick Stabile" stencils are the best sounding Martins of all, with the best intonation. Well, they may be -- but I think the bottom line is that Martin always made great horns, whether their standard line, stencils, or offshoot editions!!

Not to rain on your parade or anything!! 8)

[Jerry K.]

Thanks for the heads up BigDaffy. I also prefer an all lacquered brass horn these days. I really don't care for nickel plated keys even if they were used on some pro horns. Caused me to pass on a Magna alto once that was a pretty clean horn.

[mpcbliss]

Thanks, indeed, BigDaddy.
I'll be very interested in seeing how that does.
However, there are a couple of reasons it may not do as well as possible: the guy doesn't know anything about saxes, and thus can't say whether it needs any work/ he can't say if the lac is original/ it's got unpopular nickel keys ( mine and the one on the saxpics site have brass keys)/ there are no closeups, which bidders really like when they're up over $1000 to comfort them/ he can't guarantee it even plays.
And lastly, since he admits to ignorance, he cannot bring up all the sales points of its rarity, rep, etc.
All those are reasons for the folks who pay the highest prices to stay away.
And lastly, to keep on topic........YOU FOLKS KEEP BRINGING UP ALTOS AND MINE IS A TENOR.
Tenors go for significantly more in most cases, as judged by dealer sites for same make/model/vintage.
HOWEVER.....I have found an MM alto for sale on Bob Ackerman's Progressive Winds site: $1800. Which is the highest price of all his listed Martin altos.
I will assume from his years in the biz that this would establish that a premium is indeed paid.
But it's still an ALTO.......there seem to be some of these floating around, but none for tenor.
Now, on his list, tenors seem to go for about $5-$700+ more than altos of same make/model. Which would make an MM tenor about $23-$2500, putting it where saxgourmet has it.
I realize from having sold horns on this site that many people want a bargain and are only interested in paying a limited price.
These buyers should be happy with the standard everyday commonplace Martins. If it looks like it has measles....as with the one mentioned by Jerry K with admitted 75% lac.......that should be fine for them. (But at least cull any low-price ebay listings for Tenors with great lacquer, not the cheaper altos with finish issues. Let's be fair.)
I am looking to determine a "market value" for a rare, limited-production TENOR that looks really nice as well, when sold to an informed, motivated, solvent purchaser.
Rather than to someone who is somewhat disinterested, or evaluating principally on pricepoint issues.
I agree that Rummelhoff is way off .......but it was the only listing I could find.
The Progressive Winds listing is more what I'd expect.
Thanks to BigDaddy, I will have some fun seeing what happens with that listing. Tho just an alto, and poorly presented saleswise.
Also thanks to Jerry K re ebay suggestions....I think that's pretty close to what I'm leaning towards, sans the way-high BIN. $3k might be possible for a museum piece being hyped in a dealer showroom, but not even remotely in the real world for these horns. As I believe y'all would agree.
If anyone has seen an MM tenor for sale on a dealer site, pls let us know.
Thanks.

[Jerry K.]

And lastly, to keep on topic........YOU FOLKS KEEP BRINGING UP ALTOS AND MINE IS A TENOR.

Hey, quit calling us FOLKS!

Regarding the $3000 BIN price, you brought up that number. I personally think it's insanely high, even for a tenor. By the way, the lowly alto that you mentioned has measles was just overhauled. That adds some value if done well. As far as rep goes the MusicMan has no more rep than any other The Martin tenor or alto. If anything the later ones, post 1960 are not as good.

Good luck finding the right buyer. You've got what is probably a very nice horn but don't get crazy man. Unless your horn was just completely overhauled by an excellent tech, I think you should be really happy to get $1500-$2000 for it.

[Hornlip]

Regarding the $3000 BIN price, you brought up that number. I personally think it's insanely high, even for a tenor.

I agree. The only Martin horn I've ever seen listed for a price like that was an early "The Martin" tenor with perfect original silver plate.

[mpcbliss]

Yes, indeed.
And I stated clearly in my last post that I fully agreed with both of you that $3k is ridiculous.
I did NOT bring up $3k as a BIN, btw......I put it out there as the only price I could find on one for sale, and asked for comment, admitting my own ignorance in the matter.
I must say, regarding rep, that one might go to the saxpics site and you will read of its rep. From both the body of the site text as well as Gary Hartle's statements re his own horn.
Whether one agrees or not doesn't change the fact that it is out there.
And I further agree that I'm gonna be content with something in the range that Jerry K specified, now that I've done this minor checking.
As for the "f*lks"-word, which I shan't repeat.....uhhhh, I didn't realize I'd done it more than once.
Another appellation will be used henceforth.
Now we get to see how that ebay MM goes in a few days.
I'm guessing around $950, due to previously stated opinions, with a max/min range of $750-1250.
Agree/disagree???
(and of course further posts re the initial question of selling prices for MM tenors in nice orig cond would be most welcome)

[yaucante]

I'm surprised noone asked to see pics of your horn. Would this be asking too much? 8)

Thks.

[mpcbliss]

Yaucante-
For now, I've just got a few hastily-taken pix of the basics. If that's enough for you, just email me: mpcbliss@yahoo.com
If you'd care to include the derivation/etymology of your username, I'd be curious re that, tho if you'd prefer to keep that private, that's fine.
thnx

[1saxman]

I have a Music Man tenor from '62, #214099. It's a particularly good tenor for my kind of playing (R&B, rock, blues, commercial jazz, etc. - you know, the stuff you get paid for playing). I use it as an ocasional back-up to my Mk VI, and always enjoy the different slant the Martin throws on my playing - quite a different beast. I didn't know it was a Music Man until after it arrived. The seller didn't know, so he didn't say anything about it. Naturally, it got the expected overhaul. I had Selmer-style tone boosters put in and the action opened up. The sax is just a honker, and the altissimo is easier than the Selmer. All Martin tenors were getting the octave rocker stop adjustment by then. It was one of the features of the Magna, and it made such good sense I guess they decided to put it on all of them. The reason is, without it you can easily break the octave spring by catching the octave rocker on something and flipping it back. That is the only difference in this horn from the earlier years. So, to answer the original question, I'd say a Music Man tenor in 95 - 100% original condition with excellent original case (grey plastic with bright red interior) may go for $1800, about $300 more than an earlier model in the exact same condition. BTW, Martin managed to get the endorsement for supplying the instruments for the 'Music Man' movie, so all their top horns got this designation for about a year. Martin was under 'RMC' at this time, and the end times were soon to start. Within a couple of years they were bought by LeBlanc, who moved the production to Kenosha, WI. The horns made there were just like the earlier ones. The very last 'The Martin' saxes were made there, and the only difference was the engraving and lack of adjustable thumbrest. Here is a pic of mine, which I am sure everyone is tired of looking at since I've put it on several times. Notice the RMC shield (Roundtable of Musical Craftsmen). On the front bell band is 'Official Music Man Model'. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/16185/Martinten4.JPG[/img]

[mpcbliss]

Well, many months after my orig post, and after over half a year of looking, ebay finally had a tenor Official Music Man in VG condition.
It sold hours ago for $2046 to a dealer.
That was with several noted dings present, several dents removed, non-orig case with a lot of ugly grafitti on the exterior, and 85% lac, w/ the usual lac wear by the rh thumb that so many Martins seem to have.
Since this mostly, and at long last, answers my question in a heartening way, I'd like to thank those individuals who were interested enough to contribute their answers along the way here.
Thanks.

[newking70]

hey mpcbliss, dont know if your still looking for a music man tenor, but tim at sax alley has a relaqured one for sale :)
http://saxalley.com/saxophones.html

[BigDaddyJ]

I played that Music Man tenor at Saxalley. That horn rips! It plays a little brighter than my Martin, but it was actually more freeblowing. Great price even with the relaquer considering how it played.

Joel

[newking70]

Hey B.D.J., Did you by chance play the Martin Magna when you were at Sax Alley?

[BigDaddyJ]

newking70,

I tried out the Music Man out a few months ago. The Magna wasn't there unfortunatly. I plan on going out there soon to try some more horns. Tim's got this Skytone (Dorfler & Jorka) there that plays huge!! He just regulated it so I've been itching to try it again.

later

Joel