Louder Mouthpiece

[fred12]

I've recently begun doubling with a small "big band" and find my clarinet just doesn't cut through even when I blow as hard as I dare. I'm using a Vandoren 5rvLyre piece. My instructor's B45 doesn't seem much better. I know that Vandoren has a 5jb, but the one I've heard really didn't have a good tone. Also, I wonder whether a low intermediate player can handle such a big opening. So... does anyone have a suggestion for something affordable that will really project but isn't so "wild" that a non-professional can control it?

[RS]

Maybe a Ralph Morgan J5 or J6. Ralph's pieces have good projection and response. And even his more open pieces blow pretty easily. Same with Charles Bay's pieces but they're a little pricey.

[super20dan]

runyon jazz custom is awesume

[MM]

Is there a custom jazz for clarinet, or just a custom?

Morgans are nice. I like the B45 that came with a clarinet I bought, though I have a Beechler that is louder.

[Carl H.]

Get a Lakey and have the facing cleaned up. Great bang for the buck.

[Dave Dolson]

I use a Vandoren 66 - don't see them listed in any of the catalogs. But not too long ago, SOTW poster VITO found a 66 and a 55 (after trying my 66) and loves both of them. I use a Fibracell reed on mine which really gives this set-up some punch.

The B45 works for me, too (with a Fibracell) but lacks the authority of the VD 66. The 5JB gives me a pretty big sound but lacks the projection and focus of my 66. The 5JB is more spread for me - very warm, though.

AND, recently I picked up a new Rovner 5 mouthpiece that is as close to the 66 as I've ever come.

I have a few Lakeys, too. They are loud but they are also sharp in pitch. I got them directly from Claude years ago and he told me he pitched them at A443. I believe him. DAVE

[Sigmund451]

I will probably start an arguement but its my general opinon that a larger facing does NOT create a significant difference in volume...especially for non-advanced players. Volume is in the horn, the mpc, and the air stream. There may be subtle differences in tip opeinings but its no answer to your problem. Never play with an opening that is too big for you. Change mouthpiece design and work on airstream for increased volume and projection. If the tip is to big you will just play bad...not loud!

P.S. Lakeys make my ears bleed!

[dirty]

I will probably start an arguement but its my general opinon that a larger facing does NOT create a significant difference in volume...especially for non-advanced players. Volume is in the horn, the mpc, and the air stream. There may be subtle differences in tip opeinings but its no answer to your problem. Never play with an opening that is too big for you. Change mouthpiece design and work on airstream for increased volume and projection. If the tip is to big you will just play bad...not loud!

P.S. Lakeys make my ears bleed!
Never heard a Lakey, but I agree with all of the rest. Unless you're looking for a big, spread, Johnny Dodds kind of tone, a wide tip opening is probably not going to do it for you. I use my classical setup (Borbeck custom 13, Vandoren V12 #4 reed) for everything. I pretty much never play trad jazz or klezmer (except in my room), so I don't really need a setup that can do that. If I want to play classical or pretend to be Benny Goodman or Don Byron, my setup allows me that range (plus a bunch), with plenty of volume, as long as I use a strong, fast, well-focused airstream.

[BobbyC]

Rico Royal Graftonite B5.

I use this on my Pan American metal clarinet and it has a pretty good punch.

As always, you should try before you buy.

[Pete Thomas]

The best, sweetest, loudest clarinet mouthpiece I've had is a Berg Larsen.

[Carl H.]

I'll add that it is for for big band use that I use a cleaned up Lakey with a Click barrel. When the brass go up in pitch you can adjust to play comfortably at wherever the pitch settles in. It is not suitable for legit ensemble playing, but it sure is a relief to play in front of a big band without having to pop a blood vessel to be heard. The color can be altered by the player as well with (cue echo chamber) "practicing long tones".

It doesn't have to make your ears bleed, but in front of trumpets, wouldn't you like the option?

[Dweekie]

Loudest mouthpiece I've used is a Larry Combs LC3. The craziest mouthpiece I've owned was the Rico Metallite 7. It was a high baffle, big opening, small chamber mouthpiece similar to the brightest metal sax mouthpieces out there. It wasn't as loud as that LC3 though....... My current mouthpiece of choice is the Morgan Benny Goodman. Smaller tip size than even the LC3 classical mouthpiece. You can't say Benny Goodman didn't project. Tip sizes seem to matter less for projection on clarinet.

[Enviroguy]

There's a Larry Combs LC3 mouthpiece for sale on eBay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Larry-Combs-LC3-Clarinet-Mouthpiece-With-Ligature-Cap_W0QQitemZ220145938646QQihZ012QQcategoryZ47097Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Who'd a though it? ;)

Oh.. And let's not forget about the loudest cheap clarient ever made, the fabled Pruefer Silver Throat.

Here's one on Craig's list for $125.

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/msg/408642749.html

Put these together and you might give the audience hearing damage. :shock:

[sambeaux]

Try a Vandoren B45(dot). Like the regular B45 it will give you more punch than the 5RV, but I think the dot mpc has a really nice round sound due to a larger chamber. The 5JB is pretty extreme and very open - only if you're looking to knock out some walls!

Definitely try everything you can get your hands on, but I like the Vandorens because they're affordable, consistent, and easy to find (a big plus when you need a replacement!)

[super20dan]

enviorguy-have you played a prueffer silver throat or just heard of them? i have 2 and indeed they are the loudest most powerfull clarinet i have ever played cheap or expencive. my weapon of choice for soloing over a big band. add a rico metalite mpc and plasticover reed / bonade lig and its a force to be recommend with! its also a very good clarinet to boot!

[MojoBari]

I started on a Pruefer plastic clarinet and gigged on it many times before getting a nice LeBlanc.

[Balkan_KingZeph]

runyon jazz custom is awesume

Hey Dan,

what is this runyon jazz custom you talk of?

The runyon website only lists the Jazz for clarinet.

http://www.runyonproducts.com/clarinet.html

cheers,
Gorjan

[super20dan]

its the same thing. its a teriffic jazz clarinet mpc. mojo-the silverthroat is made or hard rubber with a coin silver liner in the bore. the bore size is also huge and only the boozy&h 1010 has a larger bore. this is one powerful clarinet

[llamalime]

I use a JodyJazz mpc on my clarinet, and I find that it gives a very strong sound. The JodyJazz has something called a spoiler (which is like an extra little reed inside the mpc and can be removed) that can give you a lot of volume. I usually don't use the spoiler because it can make it difficult to play softly.

http://www.jodyjazz.com/clarinet.html

[super20dan]

same as runyon jazz custom

[JimMetcalf]

THE John Pierce Jazz from WWBW produces a very "big sound" and is very reed friendly. It has a long facing curve so "bending" notes is easy. They are app $60.00 I play a Bari* Soft reed on mine. This is the best Jazz clarinet piece I have played. (started playing clarinet in 1954)

[Roger Aldridge]

I tried quite a few jazz clarinet mouthpieces over the years but I was never happy with my quality of sound. Then, on a hunch I started moving toward classical style mouthpieces. I was on the right track sound-wise but I struggled with having enough power in a big band. Finally, I started working with Walter Grabner's Kaspar style mouthpieces -- in particular the K14. Walter's Kaspar was like a revelation to me as it pulled together everything I had been looking for in a clarinet mouthpiece: a dark resonant sound and superb projection & response. After getting a second vintage Couesnon clarinet earlier this year I called Walter and asked him to make a K14 for me that has an exceptionally big sound and amount of "ring". The K14 he sent me is truly MY mouthpiece. I cannot rave about it enough. Now, I do not struggle to be heard in a big band and I have the warm, dark, ringing sound that I've always wanted.

Guess what? The tip opening is only 1.07 MM!

Roger

[Balkan_KingZeph]

same as runyon jazz custom

what tip opening (#) do u use?

[super20dan]

no5. have spoiler but dont need it

[Balkan_KingZeph]

no5. have spoiler but dont need it

excellent. thanks.

now for one more question, what size/brand reeds do u generally use with this m/piece?

[super20dan]

i use rico plasticover for extra volume and edge but i play these on every thing.

[stevesklar]

for cutting, such as in a bigband, I tend to use my trusty 1980 Obrien crystal mpc. It's a 1.13mm opening (.044 inch). Players in the past have told me that that mpc works perfectly for clarinet. Though, when i'm playing I don't hear the difference .. but it apparently projects really well.

[HOUSTON NONET]

I will probably start an arguement but its my general opinon that a larger facing does NOT create a significant difference in volume...especially for non-advanced players. Volume is in the horn, the mpc, and the air stream. There may be subtle differences in tip opeinings but its no answer to your problem. Never play with an opening that is too big for you. Change mouthpiece design and work on airstream for increased volume and projection. If the tip is to big you will just play bad...not loud!

P.S. Lakeys make my ears bleed!

DITTO8-)

[HOUSTON NONET]

Roger Aldridge]I tried quite a few jazz clarinet mouthpieces over the years but I was never happy with my quality of sound. Then, on a hunch I started moving toward classical style mouthpieces. I was on the right track sound-wise but I struggled with having enough power in a big band. Finally, I started working with Walter Grabner's Kaspar style mouthpieces -- in particular the K14. Walter's Kaspar was like a revelation to me as it pulled together everything I had been looking for in a clarinet mouthpiece: a dark resonant sound and superb projection & response. After getting a second vintage Couesnon clarinet earlier this year I called Walter and asked him to make a K14 for me that has an exceptionally big sound and amount of "ring". The K14 he sent me is truly MY mouthpiece. I cannot rave about it enough. Now, I do not struggle to be heard in a big band and I have the warm, dark, ringing sound that I've always wanted.

Guess what? The tip opening is only 1.07 MM!
ditto-- the grabner k14 is best cl mpc i have ever played-- it is worth every cent--try one at no cost --that's a deal


try it

[super20dan]

i played an obrien for 25 years till the fear of breaking it as you cant replace one any more -yes a great jazz mpc

[RS]

For crystal pieces the Pomaricos are worth a look.

[HOUSTON NONET]

For crystal pieces the Pomaricos are worth a look.
what model-- i want to try one:?

[stevesklar]

I also use a vintage HR Woodwind K9 mpc. tip of 1.20mm / .047inch which gives me a much more complex tone and much more spread tone too (compared to my other mpcs). it can definitely be louder from the players perspective but i'm not sure it cuts as well as my OBrien does.

Yes, the OBriens (& Selmer Clarions) cannot be replaced if broken, and there were various OBrien family clan making them and their quality varies .. but there's always eBay if you know the visual cues

i'd try a Pomarico too - also try the Selmer Paris crystal

[RS]

Pomarico makes both jazz and classical models. I have a Pomarico jazz model that gets a big full sound but my HR Morgan has more cut so I usually play the Morgan. I'm a bari sax player that doubles on clarinet so when I pick up the clarinet for 16 or 32 bars I want something that feels a little like a sax piece. My open Morgan jazz model has this. If I were a full time clarinetist I would take a look at some of the legit pieces like the Grabner.

[littlemanbighorn]

Walter's Kaspar was like a revelation to me as it pulled together everything I had been looking for in a clarinet mouthpiece: a dark resonant sound and superb projection & response.


The nicest mouthpiece I've ever played was an original Kaspar 14. Since i didn't (and still don't) have $600 to spend on a mouthpiece I plan on ordering some K14's from Grabner once I get my student loan.

[clarnut]

Guess what? The tip opening is only 1.07 MM!

Roger

It is not necessary to have a big opening to play loud. Often the bigger tip openings just give the impression of a larger tone. A closer to medium tip can often give plenty of volume and more focus in the tone. The added focus can actually give more presence and projection.

[jazzbari]

ive heard of this barrel that makes the clarinet a lot louder but it looks like it would make the tone quality worse,
just a heads up :)

[Dave Dolson]

Jazzbari: . . . and . . .? Inquiring minds need to know. DAVE

[Carl H.]

I think it is called powerbarrel or some thing like that. Weiner carries it.

[retread]

Developed by Omar Henderson of Doctor's Products and Forte Clarinet fame. Everything of his that I've tried works as advertised, so I suspect the power barrel does indeed increase loudness.

[martinm5862]

Developed by Omar Henderson of Doctor's Products and Forte Clarinet fame. Everything of his that I've tried works as advertised, so I suspect the power barrel does indeed increase loudness.

I can get enough volume to play lead clarinet over 4 saxophones with a Vandoren 5RV Lyre mouthpiece and Rico Grand Concert Evolution #3 or 3 1/2 reeds. This is also a fine classical setup for me.
Martin

[Carl H.]

The saxes aren't the problem.

When the lead trumpet asks you to take the high note at the end, then you have the right piece. (Happened at an outdoor symphony gig to me!)(HS* lavoz MH(my civilized piece, the Lakey is in a different class))

[Roger Aldridge]

I tried Dr. Henderson's Power Barrel several years ago. It's important to understand his description of how the barrel works. If memory serves, he says something like "perceived volume". That is, the barrel doesn't increase actual volume. Rather, it makes adjustments to the clarinet's harmonic series and that appears to make the clarinet louder. Again, it's perception.

When I first tried the Power Barrel several years ago one of my sax buddies gave me feedback that my sound was too bright. After I spent more time with the barrel I came to agree with him and returned to my wood barrel.

The key thing about this discussion is there is a difference between volume and projection. I've found that a mouthpiece made from exceptionally high quality hard rubber (like Morgan and Zinner) and faced by an expert mouthpiece designer -- so there is a good match between the reed profile and the mouthpiece facing curve -- can have a greater level of projection than many mass produced mouthpieces I tried in the past.

I'm not meaning to repeat myself, but I am very impressed with the amount of projection (as well as the beautiful quality of sound) I get with Walter Grabner's clarinet mouthpieces. The K14 I use has a rather small tip opening by jazz standards however I get a big sound with it and it projects like gang busters. I have no problem projecting my sound in a large ensemble. There's something magical about Walter's mouthpiece facings. Whatever he does, his facings allow the reed to work at an optimal level with the mouthpiece.

A couple of other suggestions to increase projection:

1.) Try a thick cut reed with more "wood" in the heart. This gives one a stronger tonal core. I've found that I get more projection with a thick cut reed. Suggestions = Gonzales FOF, Alexander Classique, Vandoren V12, Legere Quebec (synthetic). Rico Evolution and Grand Concert thick blank reeds also have a thicker cut but I haven't tried them. Some of the thick cut reeds describe themselves as being based on the old Morre reed. Another option is to try the Vandoren Black Master reed.

2.) Check to see if you're taking enough of the mouthpiece into your mouthpiece. If not, you're choking your sound. Turn the mouthpiece sideways and see the spot where the reed separates from the facing curve. That's the "power spot" to place your lower lip. Just taking in more mouthpiece can often help to give one a bigger sound and more projection with their existing set up. This is a trick I learned from Ralph Morgan. I found that it made a huge difference in my playing.

Good luck!

Roger

[JimMetcalf]

try the John Pierce-available from WWBW for app $60. It projects extremly well and is easy playing!

[ZephyrSax]

try the John Pierce-available from WWBW for app $60. It projects extremly well and is easy playing!

The tip opening on this one is huge. I find that it's really hard to keep it from being flat, with such a large opening...powerful piece, though.

[fred12]

Thanks to you all, the posts have been helpful in trying to get a fix on what makes for better volume. I have obtained a mpc from Bootman in Australia, he's worked it over with aboriginal magic, or perhaps crocodile fat, don't know his secret but it really does the job. A little more volume at the lower end of the scale but it can break windows with the higher notes. And I thought the price was very fair. Guess the rest is up to the player now to develop an appropriate embouchure and style to make the best use of the hardware.

[super20dan]

fred-is this a larry coombs from bootman?

[MM]

I too had flatness problems with the John Pierce. To my surprise, I recently found a good B45 that works well for me, after playing a Morgan and a Grabner . The Grabner is a top-notch mpc and very playable, no question, but the B45 has more punch for jazz. I don't care for clarinet mpcs with more baffle and even the Clark Fobes Jazz model sounded thin to me. It only takes a little to alter the sound of a clarinet.

It depends on context too. When I play mostly clarinet with more exposed parts, a closer mpc and harder reed is best for sound. But on a mostly sax gig with a few quick changes to clarinet, I find a more open mpc/softer reed setup feels more comfortable and less of a shock.

[stevesklar]

Thanks to you all, the posts have been helpful in trying to get a fix on what makes for better volume. I have obtained a mpc from Bootman in Australia, he's worked it over with aboriginal magic, or perhaps crocodile fat, don't know his secret but it really does the job. A little more volume at the lower end of the scale but it can break windows with the higher notes. And I thought the price was very fair. Guess the rest is up to the player now to develop an appropriate embouchure and style to make the best use of the hardware.

Bootman does an excellent job - top notch.
I have one of his Selmer C85-120s .. same performance as you state extremely flexible while being full sounding.

[Bootman]

I have been doing a lot of clarinet mpc experimenting here with Frank Celata from the SSO, we are getting closer to mpc Nirvana. I am trying all sorts of ideas, to get more volume whilst not losing tone quality or flexibility.