sx90r and getz sound?

[Chris]

Can i get with a sx90r a getz sound.

Good Mk6 are to expensive. So i think the sx90r could be an option.

What do you think?

Which MPC does Getz use during the bosa nova time?

Thanks!

[CodyW]

I would think it would be easier to accomplish this sound with a new selmer. Either II,III,54 or 36. This horns already have that sound out of the box. You could practice alot and find the right mouthpiece with the sx90 to eventually get it though.

[mostly alto guy]

Choose any horn and set-up that plays well for you, but don't expect to sound like Stan Getz. Only Getz can do that.

Why not sound like you?

[scale_master]

There was a thread here that described how Getz produced his sound. Maybe someone remembers where this was?
As I recall, the two main factors are:
- phrasing
- hard reed, rel. open mouthpiece and take a lot of the mouthpiece in your mouth.

But to answer your question: I think it will be hard to get the Selmer-typical core with a Keilwerth. This was very apparent in Getz's later recordings. On the other hand, if you work on the above, I think you can get pretty close to where you want to be with any horn.

B.

[Stretch]

This may be of interest: http://www.du.edu/lamont/Getz.html
A key component of the Getz sound would be the reed, a blue box Vandoren 3.5 or 4. Very dark.

[danny_tb]

Choose any horn and set-up that plays well for you, but don't expect to sound like Stan Getz. Only Getz can do that.


As far as total sound (including content, and presentation of the content), you're right...

As far as the tone is concerned, you're not quite right... Sure, if a spectral analysis was done of Getz's tone and the tone of any other person that "sounds like" him, there would be differences, but it is possible to "getz" :wink: a tone that is virtually impossible for most people to pick as not being Getz.

Using the mouthpiece that I made myself, I manage to get a tone that someone has described as being "more Getz than Getz"... Sure, there's a difference, but for all intents and purposes, I my tone is "Getz". If I started a "Stan Getz Memorial Band" the comments about me not sounding like Getz wouldn't be aimed at the tone (it's close enough to say that it's a Getz tone), but they would be aimed at the content.

The way I get that tone is by using my beaten-up old Weltklang tenor (yes, I did say Weltklang - if you know how to set them up correctly, they're not quite as bad as they are made out to be - but I would still prefer a MK VI :) ). I also use my Rico Royal mpc that I have refaced to 80 thou (with a shortened beak), and opened up the chamber to be more like that of an Otto Link - bucket-loads of material removed to do this. I also use a rolled-in bottom lip embouchure. Forget about the double lip embouchure unless you really can't get the tone without it. It is my belief that SG went away from the double lip emb, and (despite various experiments with emb) always went back to the single lip-lip in emb. Personally, I find it hard to believe that (with a double lip emb) he could pop the altissimo as clearly and easily as he did so very often (another thing that many people don't realise - many people think he virtually never used altissimo - he used it very regularly). I put quite a lot of the beak of the mouthpiece into my mouth, and the facing should be made with this in mind (if that is what gives you his tone that is - but it worked for him, and it works for me). I also have some cloth, rolled into a scroll of about 1 inch in diameter, and of about 5 inches in length that I have taped inside the bell, opposite the B and Bb tone holes. This is to help to soften the lower notes just a little bit, and it also has the effect of putting the B and Bb back into tune on my sax (they're naturally sharp on my sax). I also use Rico 3.5 (orange box), but I find they're too variable. Rico Jazz is less variable, but the heart seems to be a bit too thick for the reed to vibrate properly for me, and because of that, I don't quite get the right tone when I'm using them. You may need a different reed cut to the cut that I need, but I use whatever I can find with the thinnest heart, and thickest tip. Considering the variability I've been getting with Rico's (the ones that give me the closest tone to Getz's), I've been thinking of getting reeds with a suitable tip thickness (and better reed material), and reworking the reeds myself to make my own "Rico" reeds. But this is a very big step... :(

One thing that many people forget about when they try to get a Getz tone is that it had a characteristicly nazal quality (something that seems to be enhanced slightly by taking more of the mouthpiece into the mouth - within reason). Certainly, he had the nice warm tone (created by having a relatively large chambered mouthpiece), but with it was a nazal quality produced by harmonics around the 2500Hz region (at least somewhere between about 1200 Hz and 3000Hz - the 2500Hz slider on my graphic EQ is what increases this part of the characteristic Getz tone). This is especially the case with virtually any note that requres the the octave key, and it applies even more from about high G upward. Of course, you also need to remember that you can have too much of a nazal tone. Personally, my tone is slightly more nazally than Getz's was - but not by much. Also, his tone concept was to take the "buzz" out of the tone. He called it "taking the reed out of the tone". Ironically, by taking the "reed out of the tone" you become more reed dependent, and you'll have to be picky with which reeds you choose, and often you'll find that you'll put a brand new reed on, only to take it off again, and put it straight into the rubbish bin. Such is life!

I wish you all the best with getting Getz's tone. I hope that what I've said about what I've done will get(z) you into the ball-park, but you'll have to also do a lot of experimentation for yourself to find what works for you.

All the best.

DB

[Bill Gaulke]

Getz sound????Get a Selmer B/A horn,,, then score a Brillhart white mouthpiece,, get a #3 1/2 reed. The mouthpiece possibly a #3 or a 4 facing. Then get a thin dish towel, not a turkish one,, and stuff it in the bell of the horn, not too far down the bell. This works,, I've used it...Then you'll come as close to getz as possible....Don't forget to practice....

[john]

Getz sound! Easy:
1) become hopelessly addicted to narcotics
2) drink heavily
3) have all your teeth removed
4) practice
5) pawn all your equipment and use whatever horn is available

or you could just go with number 4 until it works.

john

[Longislandsound]

danny_tb: Your comments re: Getz tone - very impressive.would like to communicate on this further by e-mail...I play tenor and piano.longislandsound

my email address is joan@herbspecialist.com....

[blow]

I owned a tenor that supposedly was once owned by Getz himself. Bought it while studying at Berklee. It was a selmer 54xxx (SBA? MK VI????) with high f# key, nickel plated bell, that I bought in Boston in 1975 for $450. Cool horn? Yes. I wish I still had it.

Was it played by Getz? Who knows. For what it's worth, Emelio Lyons said "it could be true". Then rolled his eyes and said, "Do you care? You've got a pretty nice tenor here."

Your actual mileage may vary. Do you think Getz actually tried to cop anyone else's sound?

That's what's so cool about the saxophone over almost any other instrument. You have your own voice, if you're willing to find it.

[blow]

Getz sound! Easy:
1) become hopelessly addicted to narcotics
2) drink heavily
3) have all your teeth removed
4) practice
5) pawn all your equipment and use whatever horn is available

or you could just go with number 4 until it works.

john :D

[Longislandsound]

To clarify my first posting, my name is Don. (longislandsound) I am using my wife's email address. Back to Dannie TB and his comments on wave lengths, sounds, etc producing Getz like tones....and "nasal quality"..I thought these were really interesting comments. Just received my woodwind catalog and there is a new alto mouthpiece made by Nate designed to produce the " Paul Desmond sound" through digitized wave testing etc. to produce wavelengths close to those of Desmond's recordings. I myself am using a Mark 6 (1964) with an early sixties rubber Link opened to 5*-6 and refaced by Mr. Ackerman in New Jersey.
I have been using 3 and 3 1/2 Van Doren regular but have switched to 2 1/2 . I'm told I sound like Getz by some but don't hear some of those qualities in my own playing that danny TB referred to. I hope this thread will be continued as the interesting specialized subject that it is. Hope to hear more from dannyTB and others.

[danny_tb]

Try playing toward hard surface (not a door - not hard enough in most cases) so that your tone getz :wink: reflected back to you. Experiment with distance away from the surface so that you get the full extent of your tone coming back to your ears. Then you'll have a better idea of what you sound like to others. I'll email you off the list if you like.

Danny

[CashSax]

I borrowed a reed from Stan one time back in the '70's in SF. He played La Voz Med-Soft :wink:

[Balladeer]

This thread is interesting. As an older player (early 50's), I developed my tonal concepts before the introduction of extremely bright sounds like those of Tom Scott. To my thinking, to get as bright as Tom Scott requires a certain type of mouthpiece. Whereas one can produce a sound like Stan Getz with a variety of typical jazz mouthpieces. The main factors being one's concept and attitude. Like Desmond, Getz played with a cool attitude. He often played in the upper half of the horn's natural range. Perhaps his sound was more intense, less abstract, and more scalar than Coltrane's. Getz's version of melodies does not deviate abstractly from the true melody, and he really didn't get into whole tone scales and augmented chords.

I believe players can emulate his cool style by playing with a casual embouchure that is not too tight, by playing in the range C2 and up, by using scale patterns, and by playing easily recognizable melodies. Rythmically, Getz played many on-the-beat patterns - which is more suitable for latin music than black jazz and swing would be. This is very similar to Desmond's approach with the Dave Brubeck Quartet and gives the music a mental characteristic versus an emotional characteristic.

For example, though "Girl From Ipanema" has a melancholy sound, it seems to come from someone who is not head over heels in love and not wearing their heart on their sleeve. Rather that melancholy seems to come from a mental observation and personal distance - or coolness and independence. It's all attitude!

[Mike Ruhl]

Do you think Getz actually tried to cop anyone else's sound?Probably, when he first started out.
That's what's so cool about the saxophone over almost any other instrument. You have your own voice, if you're willing to find it.Don't know if I agree with the "over almost any other instrument" part, but it's true that we have to work out our sound concept for ourselves. The thing is, we all start out trying to mimic someone.

Getz didn't play Selmers for his whole career. There are pictures of him playing Conns very early on. And over the years he played a variety of mouthpieces, from Brilharts to Bergs to Links to Selmers to Meyers.

So, to answer the original question: of course you can get a "Getz sound" with an SX90R - those horns were based on the old Conn horns. But, as most everyone is alluding to, getting a "Getz sound" isn't so simple as simply using the same horn and mouthpiece that Getz used. It's more about how you play than what you play.

[SaxyAcoustician]

Getz would've sounded like Getz on a Keilwerth. And he would've sounded very much like himself regardless of the mouthpiece he played on. I hope this drives the point home. Get a good horn, practice a ton and make sure you LISTEN enough to acquire a tonal concept in your head.

[Longislandsound]

For me, the goal isn't so much to sound exactly like Getz as much as to find the secret of why he sounded so different from the others in the same school. ...Zoot Sims, Allen Eager, Al Cohen, Bill Perkins, ....of course Getz went much further from Prez and was more of a linear roller coaster player. But the sound was different. And the older I have gotten, the more I can hear the difference.One can say that Getz could play on a lot of instruments and sound like himself...however, it is noteworthy to see his steadfast usage of the Mark 6 and the link hard rubber....The mouthpieces I've seen mentioned elsewhere that he also used, were not that far afield. Attitude and concept is the base but in Getz's history you can see the difference even between his first use of the Mark 6 and the old balanced action sound. If someone came to me and said, " you don't really sound like Getz". , this would be cool because in whatever I have done to follow that sound, I have ended up with a really good sound.

The hardest part in either playing well or playing well in the style of another,
is getting the content together, the licks, the phrases, because you just don't have a physical sound..you have a mind, working it's way through the guidelines and structure of the music. Jazz is very linear. I mean the Jazz that I listen to. It starts and moves forward riding a beat through time.

I have really enjoyed finding this thread because previously I thought I was the only one seeking the Holy Grail in a feverish passion somewhat akin to psychosis. I have more to add. in the meantime, as I also am a piano player, I hope to meet and hear all of you sometime. This is one instance where today's internet really has been bringing people together with similar interests who otherwise would remain more isolated.

[Mike Ruhl]

You're absolutely not the only one. What's that Coltrane quote? "We'd all sound like that, if we could" or something to that effect...

I know exactly what you're trying for - I've done the same thing over the past couple of years. And I play what is probably the worst tenor for getting that sound: a King Super 20. What works best for me are the older styled medium-to-large round-chambered mouthpieces with rollover baffles. There's a bunch to choose from.

Unfortunately the reason Getz sounded so different from everyone else from that era died with Stan.

[Mike Ruhl]

Don't know how accurate this list is, but check this out:

http://www.du.edu/lamont/Getz.html

[Longislandsound]

Meruhl: Have already downloaded the e-address you posted. The guy seems to know a lot. I wanted to question him a bit but he did not answer my e-mail. However, it all seems plausible what the guy has posted. I know what you mean about the super 20 tenor. It was my first tenor and I hated it. but for other purposes like straight bebop, it might have been great. Dex played one at one time. To depart from the Getz thread only momentarily, I consider Frank Foster to be the most underrated tenor soloist.

[Mike Ruhl]

Frank Foster is great, a true professional. Foster is from Cincinnati, same as me. I first became aware of him through his work with Count Basie (I spent my teenage years in the Kansas City area), then the Thad Jones-Mel Lewis Big Band.

I love my Super 20, wouldn't trade it for any other tenor. But it's so free-blowing and resonant, that it's tough to "stuff it up" enough to get that great Getz bonna-nova sound. I sometimes cheat by putting a rolled-up hand towel in the bell. Whatever it takes! :wink:

Oh yeah, believe it or not, a Rico Royal Graftonite mpc stuffs things up pretty well, too.

[Mike Ruhl]

Check out Frank Foster's lateset, on the fantastic Mapleshade label:

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/reviews/09532.html

[blow]

>>Don't know if I agree with the "over almost any other instrument" part<<

I was referring mainly to rhythm and electronic instruments. However, saxophone to me is the most individually expressive instrument I'm aware of.

>> , but it's true that we have to work out our sound concept for ourselves. The thing is, we all start out trying to mimic someone.<<

I think we're making the same point from different points of view. My point was that although I believe I may have had one of Getz' actual tenors, once I blew it with my own lungs, mouth cavity and teeth, I sounded nothing at all like him.

>>But, as most everyone is alluding to, getting a "Getz sound" isn't so simple as simply using the same horn and mouthpiece that Getz used. It's more about how you play than what you play.<<

Agree.

[Mike Ruhl]

I think we're making the same point from different points of view.I think you're right.

[DirkW]

Do you think Getz actually tried to cop anyone else's sound?Probably, when he first started out.

Getz was heavily influenced by Lester Young early in his career, and got the "Young" sound down before developing his own voice. He moved back toward the Lester Young sound in the Bosa Nova years. Also, in the late 40's, you couldn't play tenor in a major big band unless you could sound like Ben Webster.

[Balladeer]

For the "smooth jazz" version of Getz, listen to John Klemmer. IMHO, Klemmer has a better sound in the low register than Getz. Of course, Klemmer's stuff is electronically processed, while Getz' was not.

[m3pilot]

Doc Tenney plays on a black nickel SX90R tenor using (surprise!) one of his current production hard rubber Links. I think his sound tends to be quite Getz-like although I actually like Doc's sound a little better. It seems to me to be more full and projecting. Having never heard Getz live however, I can't say that with all assuredness.

Now when I picked up Doc's horn the other night and played it, I sounded neither like him nor Getz. I sounded like me with a different eq.

So yes, it's possible to get a Getz-like sound on an SX90R but who's playing it is of course the most important thing. Great horn, by the way. I'm kind of tempted to get one myself.

[Tears June]

Doc Tenney plays on a black nickel SX90R tenor using (surprise!) one of his current production hard rubber Links. I think his sound tends to be quite Getz-like although I actually like Doc's sound a little better. It seems to me to be more full and projecting. Having never heard Getz live however, I can't say that with all assuredness.

Now when I picked up Doc's horn the other night and played it, I sounded neither like him nor Getz. I sounded like me with a different eq.

So yes, it's possible to get a Getz-like sound on an SX90R but who's playing it is of course the most important thing. Great horn, by the way. I'm kind of tempted to get one myself.

m3pilot,

You said "Doc Tenney plays on a black nickel SX90R tenor using (surprise!) one of his current production hard rubber Links."

How do you know this and how you know it's sounds like Getz? Any sound clip or futher information we can find from the internet?


:cry:

[m3pilot]

Tears,

I know because I live near Doc and have sat in with him on a couple of occasions. Most recently last Friday night. It was very cool because we tried each others horns and pieces. He sounded fundementally the same on his setup as he did on my SBA/NY Link Tonemaster setup. Clearly his setup fits his concept better than mine but it just goes to show you that the player is the most important part of the equation.

I don't know of any recordings of his sound.

[tindaro]

There is only one GETZ...Do your own thing with your horn.

I beleive that Stan Getz was one of the greatest Tenor Sax player around.

His tone and sound can not be duplicated.

[Morry]

There are any number of great sounds. Getz was a master. No horn is going to make you sound like him. A poster on the first page of this thread said that the Selmers would be better because "they have this sound coming out of the box". If that were true, Selmer couldn't keep them on the shelves.

Ernie Watts gets a great sound on an SX90R. Is it Getz's sound? No. It's his own. Forget about duplicating someones sound and look for your own. In the end, you might like it better.

[Hurling Frootmig]

Which Getz sound?

His tone changed through the years. He started out having the Lester thing going and ended up somewhere else.

[Chris]

You can hear 100 prof. tenor sax players, and you know which is Stan Getz.
Also Coltrane, Rollins, Webster, Brecker has unique sound.

I like DVDs
Vintage Getz
Last concert in Munich

are there other DVDs.

[CashSax]

Nino Tempo fooled me for a few notes one time ..I thought it WAS Stan.. :shock:

[CodyW]

Some Zoot Sims recordings sound very similar to early Stan Getz.

[Adam Niewood]

I think his (Doc Tenney) sound tends to be quite Getz-like although I actually like Doc's sound a little better. It seems to me to be more full and projecting. Having never heard Getz live however, I can't say that with all assuredness.

Wow... better than Stan Getz ??? Where are all of Doc's recordings???

[mangojango]

I've got recordings of Doc playing, and he does indeed have a very Getz-like tone. Obviously whether or not I (or someone else) like Doc's tone better than Getz's is pretty subjective. I'm not seeing the parallel between having good tone and making recordings. Hopefully you'll be kind enough to enlighten me.

[Ronish]

Well I`ve bought one Samuel, they are called Plateau clarinets and I willingly give up the "bending and gliss" for the assurance that every time I put my fingers down, even off centre, I can still get an acceptable note with no sqeak.:)

[ClickRec]

Nino Tempo fooled me for a few notes one time ..I thought it WAS Stan.. :shock:

ME TOO! I was just thinking about Nino's recording of Darn That Dream.
I know I got it around here somewhere. Gimmee a day or two...I'll post it.

[Bebopalot]

Getz blew a #5 reed at times and had to really get some air through the horn. All those sweet sounds came at the expense of working hard to get them. I worship that Getz sound and as far as tone is concerned, I think I come pretty close with my Keilwerth. I would say that it is more about the chops, mouthpiece and reed than it is about the saxophone.

[ClickRec]

Nino Tempo fooled me for a few notes one time ..I thought it WAS Stan.. :shock:

ME TOO! I was just thinking about Nino's recording of Darn That Dream.
I know I got it around here somewhere. Gimmee a day or two...I'll post it.

FOUND IT! I got this as a promo when I worked for a radio station in the early 90's. I've never seen the album...maybe it was never released? It's on Atlantic. I've never heard it anywhere but on this promo.

http://download.yousendit.com/2C2FB73934F0BB9A

WELL WORTH the download. So pretty it's almost crippling.

[Mark]

FOUND IT! I got this as a promo when I worked for a radio station in the early 90's. I've never seen the album...maybe it was never released? It's on Atlantic. I've never heard it anywhere but on this promo.

http://download.yousendit.com/2C2FB73934F0BB9A

WELL WORTH the download. So pretty it's almost crippling.


Wow, that's really nice! Very Getz-ish in both tonal quality and execution. Thanks for this!

This reminds me that I need to get a copy of Focus, the album that Getz considered to be his best (I've got one track and it's brilliant!).

Mark