I cannot believe how bad the new Rico Royals have become [Archive]

dstack79

08-01-2007, 01:11 AM

I have played Rico Royals for about 16 yrs or so now. They seemed to work really well on my jazz pieces when I got a good one. They have a nice quick response and volume, yet don't get too bright. They retained this warmth which I liked.

I'd been playing the older stock (in the dark blue box, from the 90's) and RSJ. When it was time to buy newer ones, I cldn't believe how much they'd changed. Apart from the obvious decline in cane quality (it's all green and pale yellow now), the actual cut seems to be different. Seems like more wood down on the lower portion of vamp maybe.

Anyways, I thought it might just be bad luck w/ the boxes. I just got 5 additional boxes and went through all of them. None of the reeds played at all. They were all dull and non-responsive. That's never happened to me in the entire time I've been playing sax.

Anyways, I read a post where Grumps mentioned a similar experience. Has anybody else? Did they change the cut? The other Rico brands don't seem to be too different.

Thanks

-Dan

rs1sensen

08-01-2007, 01:15 AM

I'm not sure if they have changed, as I stopped playing Ricos a couple years ago, but I never liked them much. I have heard that reeds which have been "aged" play better (although what research is behind this I don't know). It may be a case of you playing on properly-aged reeds.

Grumps

08-01-2007, 02:15 AM

Some trace the decline to new ownership. They were bought up by a guitar string maker, D'Addario. Kept the name, but to me, they ain't Rico's no more.

08-01-2007, 02:34 AM

I have a box that have the texture of rough sawn lumber. P.O.S.itively Royal.

Grumps

08-01-2007, 02:35 AM

But how are the guitar strings?

dstack79

08-01-2007, 03:07 AM

But how are the guitar strings?

Do guitar players have the same issues w/ strings that sax players do w/ reeds?

dshook

08-01-2007, 03:16 AM

I have noticed this decline as well. I haven't tried RJS but how do they compare to the old blue box RR reeds?

dstack79

08-01-2007, 03:20 AM

I have noticed this decline as well. I haven't tried RJS but how do they compare to the old blue box RR reeds?

I think the RJS are still alright. They might've declined too, but not to the extent of RR's. They're brighter and buzzier than RR's as well.

jacobeid

08-01-2007, 03:42 AM

Do guitar players have the same issues w/ strings that sax players do w/ reeds?

My dad recieved a package from musicians friend and was complaining how expensive his two new boxes of strings were. I think he said something around $45. I then made a comment about how at least when he got a box of strings, he knew everyone would be consistent and work well.

How many sax players does it take to change a lightbulb?
Only 1 but it took him 12 boxes of lightbulbs until he found one he liked.

08-01-2007, 07:28 AM

I think it's not just Rico Royals, but LaVoz and also all of the Vandoren jazz cuts: Java, V16 and ZZ. I'm going thru the worst period I ever remember for alto reeds. I am thinking it is a combination of poor cane and the dry California summer. Oh yeah, for a while I thought Gonzales were it but my latest box stinks. I have some RJS that are at least ok. I am planning to delve into synthetics again real soon.

I've been adjusting more than before...and tried other mouthpieces with the same results.

Has anyone in a similar situation found they need to move up or down in strength?

milandro

08-01-2007, 07:53 AM

well, I had erratic experiences with Vadoren blue box, all of a sudden the strength made no sense at all and from 2 or 2,5 I had to go to a 1,5!
Apparently nowadays one has to look out for Chinese counterfeats bearing the exact same logo and in the same box as Vandoren originals (and maybe other brands too it wouldn't surprise me at all...) as it is stated (as a warning) on the Vandoren site too!

However I spent a day selecting reeds out of a box yesterday, Alexander superial that is. I am amazed at how different reeds are in a pack.

I understand it is a natural product but something has to be done to improve consistency! At maybe 40$ a pop for a box, it ain't funny to discard 3 reeds out of 10 and among the leftover ones find that you really like two. The rest is alright.

SearjeantSax

08-01-2007, 09:41 AM

just one year ago i tried RSJ and loved them, the unfiled were quite bright but not raspy, (were my favourite) the filed were slightly darker, but a slightly thinner sound.

now the unfiled are bright beyond belief and are nasty to play, when they get wet the grain raises up more than before and i even get tiny reed splinters in my lip!
the filed just sound boring now, not interested,
i might just go with lavoz for now :(
i stil haven't tried alexandria though

milandro

08-01-2007, 09:46 AM

Alexander reeds (Superial and Superial D.C.) are very good, in general, maybe just got a bad batch, but I like them more than most reeds I've tried until now. Nevertheless I am thinking seriously of fibracell to improve consistency and cut costs. Reeds are too expensive nowadays!

SearjeantSax

08-01-2007, 09:48 AM

id kinda like to try cutting and shaving my own ;)

Grumps

08-01-2007, 03:34 PM

Do guitar players have the same issues w/ strings that sax players do w/ reeds?
Oh, I was just wondering what quality guitar strings D'Addario makes. Seeing what they've done with Rico reeds...

I made the switch to Alexander Superials, which I find to be similar to the old Royals. Never tried the DC's, but I'm a bit turned off by reeds promoted for jazz playing. Not like they were needed for the golden age of jazz in the first place. No, just give me a quality reed, and I'll take the jazz sound from there.

tjontheroad

08-01-2007, 03:51 PM

But how are the guitar strings?

D'Addarios are very good guitar strings. They last long and have nice sound. I use them on all my guitars and on my bass guitar. Rico reeds don't come close to the quality of D'Addario strings.

SearjeantSax

08-01-2007, 04:28 PM

milandro

08-01-2007, 05:07 PM

Never tried the DC's, but I'm a bit turned off by reeds promoted for jazz playing. Not like they were needed for the golden age of jazz in the first place. No, just give me a quality reed, and I'll take the jazz sound from there.

D.C. are softer in tone and a little bit thicker than regular Superials, I use them on tenor. Velvety. Gve it a try. It is not a marketing stunt (they cost the same) so they are really different ;)

SearjeantSax

08-01-2007, 05:37 PM

do you use the same tenor reeds on your C mel milandro,
anyway, how you gettin on with that C mel you got?

milandro

08-01-2007, 05:40 PM

do you use the same tenor reeds on your C mel milandro,
anyway, how you gettin on with that C mel you got?

That was ancient history! I was planning to exchange my Dolnet with a Conn straight neck C Mel aseveral months ago but got a better offer for it and I sold it instead of exchanging it, so. No C Mel! Never say Never though!;)

Grumps

08-01-2007, 06:51 PM

D.C. are softer in tone and a little bit thicker than regular Superials, I use them on tenor. Velvety. Gve it a try. It is not a marketing stunt (they cost the same) so they are really different ;)
Well, maybe I should have added that I recently bought four tins of tenor Superials and would hate to discover something better... But seriously, I was reading the Alexander comparison chart on their site, and it stated that the DC's had a softer tip than the Royals and that's not what I'm looking for in a reed (I use reeds to death, and to me, a softer tip might mean it would chip, split or crack easier).

CountSpatula

08-01-2007, 07:07 PM

DCs played pretty similar to the Superials except I could push superials harder and they didn't give out on Altissimo...for me...:)

milandro

08-01-2007, 08:06 PM

yeah, I had read that too when I bought the D.C. for the first time but actually....I think that they are mellower than superials.....they last relatively long, but you need to rotate and cure them with the massage method they suggest (I soak them for 20 minutes or therabouts, seal the vamp with pressing it with something hard like plastic and massage the tip with my nails and the tip of my finger)

roberthelpus

08-01-2007, 11:42 PM

If they're green they aren't fully cured or aged yet. Put them away for a while and check them later. That's what Mr. Teal says. Makes sense seeing that you say that you are playing reeds from the 90's.

That's not an excuse for the manufacturer though.

tjontheroad

08-02-2007, 01:23 AM

If they're green they aren't fully cured or aged yet.

I had a banana like that once :D

LampLight

08-02-2007, 01:38 AM

I switched to RSJ filed a few months ago from Vandoren (another good reed IMO). I don't know what RJS used to be like, but they're fine reeds now.

dstack79

08-02-2007, 02:09 AM

I've tried both Superials and D.C's. For me, the D.C. was closest to a good Rico Royal. Superials were more like Java's to me, which I do not like. They're both good brands and are relatively more consistent. Their price isn't justified though, IMO.

Anyways, regarding the original topic. I'm convinced that not just the cane changed on RR's, but the cut has too. They just don't vibrate like the older ones. The rare one that DOES play acceptably plays totally differently than before. They seem really dark and covered, which I don't like in a reed.

When i visit Cleveland in a couple of months, I'm hoping that my local music store still has some older stock RR's. I'm gonna start hoarding as much as possible...MU HAH H AH AHH AHAHA :laughing:

Connical

08-02-2007, 02:17 AM

:icescrea: :toothy7: Everybody here is crazy !

Rico's are great ! With out a doubt, they make the Best popsicle sticks !

dstack79

08-02-2007, 02:19 AM

I made the switch to Alexander Superials, which I find to be similar to the old Royals. Never tried the DC's, but I'm a bit turned off by reeds promoted for jazz playing. Not like they were needed for the golden age of jazz in the first place. No, just give me a quality reed, and I'll take the jazz sound from there.

I don't think that D.C's are really promoted for jazz playing, at least any more so than Superials are. I think i heard that James Houlik and some other legit cats dig D.C.'s.

roberthelpus

08-02-2007, 02:57 AM

I had a banana like that once :D

And I've got a bunch of tomatos out in the garden that look the same. Ah patience :sleepy2:

kaplac

08-03-2007, 09:36 PM

D'Addarios are very good guitar strings. They last long and have nice sound. I use them on all my guitars and on my bass guitar. Rico reeds don't come close to the quality of D'Addario strings.

Agreed they make decent guitar strings, I personally vouch for DR guitar strings though.

I've never played rico royals before, nor any other brand besides stuff within the Vandoren brand.

About a month ago, I received a VERY bad box of Vandoren Jazz 3 1/2s. They just didn't play the way I was used to. Compared to a bad reed from an old box that had good played reeds. I like that bad reed better then any of these new reeds.

I've very well considering checking out other boxes, I just dont' want to get soemthing and hate it and have to live with it until the reeds wear out. I'm pretty poor right now being a student. So buying boxes and boxes of reeds isn't really high on my priority list. But I need to find a new reed company.

milandro

08-03-2007, 09:47 PM

matty

08-03-2007, 10:03 PM

I've been playing on RJS reeds and Vandoren ZZs lately. It's gotten to the point where I gave up on everything and am back to where I started (25 years ago) Rico orange box, baby!! I've played on about 10 of 'em so far (got the box of 25) and I'm learning that they are no worse than any of the top name reeds, plus they are a heck of alot cheaper. I've tried the synthetics - haven't found one that I could tolerate yet.

dstack79

08-04-2007, 12:19 AM

If one wants to economize on reeds ( I know I do) perhaps it is worth considering one of the several plastic reeds (Fibracell, Bari or Legere to mention the best known brands...), if yo can live with them (I used to play Fibracell) they might be the answer to your questions

I just got a fibracell that plays really well. They are LOUD.

I definitely would dig it if I were playing a lot of rock or w/ amped instruments in general. They're great for what they are, but i dont think the sound holds up at lower dynamic levels as well as a good cane reed. That warmth just isn't there for me.

phannah

08-06-2007, 07:02 PM

I kinda wondered if you can cure reeds by SLOWLY baking them out?

dstack79

08-07-2007, 12:17 AM

I kinda wondered if you can cure reeds by SLOWLY baking them out?

????

Nefertiti

08-07-2007, 12:23 AM

I played Rico Royals all through the 90's. They were the best reeds when I found a good one. I can't use them anymore. They just don't play like they use to. I've had good luck with Vandoren Java reeds though. Most of those play great for me right out of the box.

phannah

08-07-2007, 02:26 PM

dstack79

08-07-2007, 08:51 PM

I have found the Vandoren Javas to be pretty consistent. But I was trying to say that, you know how if you let reeds sit around for 2-6 months they kind of cure or age or whatever. Alot of times reeds seem to be "green". I was wondering if you could actually help the process along by placing them in a somewhat controlled environment. I know this might sound anal, but I'm really tired for spending all my $ on reeds that probably shouldn't have been put in the box in the first place...just a thought!

Doesnt sound anal to me at all. Nobody can beat me when it comes to reed OCD :confused:

I think storing new boxes of reeds for a few years might help, i dont know what conditions though. Probably best to keep them in a cool, dry and stable environment.

Yazzman

08-12-2007, 08:59 PM

How many sax players does it take to change a lightbulb?
Only 1 but it took him 12 boxes of lightbulbs until he found one he liked.

LOL

Sigmund451

08-13-2007, 07:13 AM

A guitar string maker making reeds, go figure. Lets see...."We are experts at wraping and making precision wire products. Lets go cut little pieces of cane for wind players... it cant be too different" 8-)

08-15-2007, 11:13 PM

I was half afraid it was me and not the reeds. But I just came across a 6 yr old opened box of Vandoren blue 2.5's. They play great on my Mojo-Meyer. In general I never cared for the trad. V's on a jazz mpc, but they seem to be better than any other cane reed I've purchased lately included the other Vandoren cuts, Rico/LaVoz/Hemke and Gonzales. Of course it may be because these are older reeds.

qwerty

08-16-2007, 03:52 AM

I think the cane is different on the newer Rico Royal reeds. The individual strands within the reed to me anyway seem either larger or more porous. Try this: Put the butt end into your mouth and try to suck air through the reed. On the newer Rico Royals I feel much more air actually going through the reed. Try the same thing on a really good Vandoren..It will be far more resistant and you will draw less air when you suck. I've always thought that reeds with small tight individual strands have the best chance of playing well. Reeds with the large stands seem more prone to warping on the table.

Steve

LeftySaxDude

08-17-2007, 06:08 AM

dstack79

08-19-2007, 05:24 AM

I just got some Bay metal pieces on trial, and I found the rico royal 3 reeds to work just fine on them. Java and ZZ 3 reeds work well too, but they seem to need more break in time, or it just seems that way because the royals have a more flexible cane. I am not sure if these are new rico royals. I bought two from the music store and they have the sticker on the reed. When did rico start putting ink on the table of the reed for the royals?

The ones w/ the stickers are fairly old. I think they stopped doing that about 10 yrs ago. For a brief time, they got rid of the sticker and instead stamped the table w/ a dark ink and packed them in individual cardboard sleeves. The box was same as before, a dark royal blue (har!). IMHO, these were the best ones. I'd get about 3-5 in a box that were just amazing. The best reeds I've ever played till this day.

Within the last 4-5 yrs or so though (right around the time Rico started using the plastic reed holders??) they got rid of the ink stamp on the table and have the logo physically embedded/carved on the table. I think I read somewhere that it's a laser engraving or something like that. The box is also different...more of a sky or baby blue. These ones are awful.

dstack79

08-19-2007, 05:33 AM

Anybody else notice a price drop on Rico Royals?

Prowinds and WWBW are now selling a box of 10 RR tenor reeds at just under $16. Before it was more like $18. Interestingly enough, RSJ, LaVoZ, Hemke all seem to remain at the same price point. In fact, in the latest WWBW catalog the regular old orange box Ricos are about $1 more expensive than the Royals! :shock: :yikes!:

Maybe this isn't a coincidence. Maybe Rico decided that it was best to turn the Rico Royals into their most "economical/budget line". They stopped allocating decent cane towards that line and dropped the price?

I'll be interested to see if other retailers show a similar relative pricing pattern for the Rico line.

martinm5862

08-19-2007, 05:49 AM

[QUOTE=dstack79]I have played Rico Royals for about 16 yrs or so now. They seemed to work really well on my jazz pieces when I got a good one. They have a nice quick response and volume, yet don't get too bright. They retained this warmth which I liked.]

I had the same problem. Try Rico Select Jazz. Good csne and very consistent. They come in filed or unfiled. The filed will probqbly be most like the Rico Royals

LeftySaxDude

08-19-2007, 08:10 PM

You know, with rico's quality on the royals, it makes me want to get a couple hundred reeds or so of RJS that is high quality now, so when they eventually go south in quality, I will have a large supply. Buy the good quality stuff now while it is still good quality.

phannah

08-22-2007, 03:01 PM

I've had some success w/ the Rigotti Gold Reeds (I use them on tenor) They usually need a break in period, but the quality of the cane seems to be pretty good. I've been going thought a BUNCH of different reed and they are all so inconsistent. I found a RJS 2H that is killin' on my RPC .125, I wish I could clone it! I have really tryed to make a serious effort to work on reeds. I've been soaking, and scraping, and sanding, and playing, and I still can't seem to figure out a good method that is consistent. Very frustrating... very expensive

Grumps

08-22-2007, 03:28 PM

I found a RJS 2H that is killin' on my RPC .125, I wish I could clone it!
Seeing that you're also in Maryland... and an RPC fan... just wondering if that's a high baffle RPC. I play one myself, though it measures about .134". My favorite all time mouthpiece.

phannah

08-22-2007, 03:50 PM

No, I think it is a roll over baffle. .125 is pretty open for me but I've been really trying to work with it. There is a recording on myspace (Eighty-Eighty-one) w/ that piece. I think it sound good, but I'm spent by the end of the gig. I've been trying to figure out the right reed to play on it. So far the Rigotti, Javas, or the RJS seem to work well. I can't imagine playing a .134, but I guess w/ a baffle is seem alot easier.

LeftySaxDude

08-22-2007, 04:16 PM

What I have been doing is soaking a new reed for about five minutes, play on it for five minutes, and if it is ready for performance, I mark it with a pencil at the bottom and stick it back in the water for a few more minutes, then I store it in a selmer reed case. If it is a little strong but sill has the livelyness that I want, I will play that one for about five minutes a day until it is broken in and is ready for performance. If the reed is just really stuffy and sounds dull and unfocused, I throw it away or if i think it has potential, i put it it the reed drawer. I have many reeds in the drawer, and after months I come back to them. Eventually, after soaking and drying for months will bring the reeds around.

The trick to reed warpage is to keep the reed wet. Only playing on it for a few minutes at a time while breaking it in minimizes the warpage. and I soak the reed before storing it to help with this. after they are broken in and are stable they will last a while. and not warp so much.

coolsax2k7

08-22-2007, 05:23 PM

I am using a RR 3 right now on one of my mouthpieces. I know it's a crap reed, but it's the only one I can find with the right balance of qualities I am looking for. It plays easier, like a thinner reed does but it is not bright or buzzy, so I am finding it works well on mouthpiece that has a large tip. I would like to try some alto Superial D.C's, though.

Thomas

09-02-2007, 07:12 PM

I used RR for many years then switched to Superial 3.5. The last couple of boxes of the Superials were unsatisfactory, needed some extra work to make them play/sound the way I like them. While in Roberto's recently I bought a box of his branded reeds, made by Rigotti, and I like them. They remind me very much of the old brown box and RRs but possibly warmer and they're holding up well. I'd suggest you try a box. A good jazz reed. The 3H is akin to a Superial 3.5 in strength.

solflare100

10-23-2007, 05:26 AM

D'Addarios are very good guitar strings. They last long and have nice sound. I use them on all my guitars and on my bass guitar. Rico reeds don't come close to the quality of D'Addario strings.

Quoted for truth. I use D'Addarios on my Larrivee Acoustic and Godin Electric.

Also, a few years back when I ran outa Hemkes, I would've bought a few Rico Royals and soak them through, then pressed on the hemp of the reed and smoothed them down with force to the front tip, in order to seal the holes on the hemp. Worked decently for some, not so decently for others. My music teacher back then used to swear by it.

Martinman

10-23-2007, 05:28 AM

There is this dude here at Indiana who sounds insanely good (very Trane-esque) who plays good old Rico Royals on tenor.

dstack79

10-23-2007, 06:43 AM

There is this dude here at Indiana who sounds insanely good (very Trane-esque) who plays good old Rico Royals on tenor.

When you say "good old RR's" do you mean he plays older stock in particular?

Anyhow, I visited Cleveland a few weeks ago. Sure enough the local music store had a bunch of older stock boxes. I cleaned them out before I came home.8-)

They haven't worked as well for me as I remembered, though. Maybe I've been away from RR's too long or my new mpc doesn't like them as much as my Berg did. Ever since I switched mpc's a year and half ago, I haven't been able to settle on one reed brand.

-Dan

Martinman

10-23-2007, 03:31 PM

When you say "good old RR's" do you mean he plays older stock in particular?

Anyhow, I visited Cleveland a few weeks ago. Sure enough the local music store had a bunch of older stock boxes. I cleaned them out before I came home.8-)

They haven't worked as well for me as I remembered, though. Maybe I've been away from RR's too long or my new mpc doesn't like them as much as my Berg did. Ever since I switched mpc's a year and half ago, I haven't been able to settle on one reed brand.

-Dan

Nope, he uses new ones.

RandyJ

10-23-2007, 03:48 PM

I've have no major problems with Rico Royals (tenor 3 1/2 and alto 3) with the amount of playing I do, I go through a box of each every 5 or 6 weeks or so.

Canadiain

10-23-2007, 04:07 PM

For $14 for 10 altos Im quite happy to toss a couple away and use the remainder if I have too. I have no problem with Rico Royals, they work just fine for me, are cheap, better cut then the regular orange box, and as Im going to balance any reed I buy so it works well, I dont see anything to be gained paying more in the first place for something Im still going to sand.

And most importantly they sound good on my setup.

Perhaps Im not moaning about them becuase I havent used them for years and noticed a recent change, but for me they are fine.