First impressions of a B&S soprano

[noelpaz]

I just got a B&S straight soprano from e-bay. It is two tone nickle/silver keys and brass body. The pinky cluster and the C/Eb keys are stainless steel. I can't find info on this horn and the serial is 5712. It has no engraving and does not have a front F - just like the vintage sopranos of the past. The lacquer is in excellent condition so I don't really know what era it could be.

It has an amazing tone. Except for the palm keys I really like the layout. I need mondo risers on the keys so I could do altissimo and alt fingerings

I had in my long term possesion a Yanagisawa soprano and this sounds much better. I also have the first Winston sops when Emilio Lyons was setting them up - not the horn specifically but I think he was giving advice to their design, that my Winston does not even have a serial (1989). The winston was just set-up and regulated but this B&S with leaks showing from the leak light plays easier than the Winston. I mean the middle stack and half of the upper stack had leaks and it plays all the way to the low Bb , pianissimo and subtone- and I am not pressing hard either. My tech was impressed and she still has to work on it. She said it is just like the old Conns and Martins. The intonation on the upper range is a bit off, but my tech said it is because of a minor damage to one of the post and it would be better once set up. I can't wait but this probably won't happen in 2 to 3 weeks.

Again the sound is really impressive. It is more full, not bright or scooped like some soprano's. And for a design that is not Selmer based it is a quite horn. No clacky keys

Any info and experience on this horns will be much appreciated. Also help on alternate finerings for sopranos with no front f.

Thanks

[KJ]

I know that the company that owns and manufactures the B&S saxophones is one of the oldest instrument companies in the world. (4 generations owned by the same family) I met the current owner at summer NAMM and can say that they are dedicated to building high quality instruments. I also played a few of their saxes at SNAMM, and although they aren't my cup of tea (German design vs. French design), they are quite exceptional in their construction.

[noelpaz]

No wonder cybersax wants 1400 for similar horn!!. After adjusting, repairing a dent and a replacement of a couple of pads, I have a monster soprano in my possesion. I am sold to the quality of B&S saxes and Bear at Cybersax said that the older ones are the way to go. Mines serial 5712.

The design varies a bit from the Mark VI or early Yani design, in the position of the tone holes, the octave mecahnism and the general movement of C, B Bb keys and key cups, but actually this seems to make more sense acoustically. They definitley came up with their own enginneering and di nto just make a Selmer copy. The tone is huge, somebody thought I was playing alto. The fact that it played all the way down even with leaks before I took it in is an indication of the quality of this horn. What I do not like is the palm keys, but I think it's just getting use to it. No front F, but not really a problem for me. Subtone and low Bb is no problem. The horn is so resonant that I can actually feel the vibration not just in my skull but even in my neck vai the neckstrap if I use one. There are subtle ergonomic touches like the thumbrest is angled and scalloped so you right hand is in natural position and less/no pain in the thumb. The top notes are open and not squeeky. Although I know it is not really useful Altissimo A (A3)is easily reachable. I need some alternate Altissimo G# fingering that would work well,

The original cork was synthetic and works pretty well and the key noises are not any louder than any pro sax - maybe even quiter. Not as fluid as a new Yani or Yamaha. (as far as I can remember)

Mouthpieces will play flat unless you go all the way in. Measures a tad longer than a vintage Yani. I have a 7* Metal Link and an BAri .68 HR. I drilled out the chamber in the link to be larger (I know I should have sent it to a refacer - but it actually accounts fro a lush and projecting sound to the link and made it altoish and IN TUNE!)

Th octave key - looks clunky at first but actually is designed well so you can have faster and fluid octave jumps. The left hand thumb rest is tall as well - twice the height of other sopranos) Also the side keys are also engineered well though it looks awkward. The F side key is not inline but this actually prevents accidental opening if you are finering the side C. Clever. So makes high E to F - tradiitonal fingering easy, becasue the F key has an sharp angle that allows it to open by rolling your right hand and the knuckle opening the high F. It also looks like the the key cup attachments to the rods are too angular and larger and not delicate like french designs. Most of them have an almost triangular cross section and they might have opted for strength rather than aesthetics. Tech said they are very sturdy and needed more work to bend. She daid rods were stainless

Key touches -- only 7 acrylic key touches. Not beautiful - not pearls, but again inteligently designed. Your fingers won't slip. BTW this horn is two-tone. Brass body and silver-chrome keys

Overall this horn will not compete in a beauty contest - But is really a tone monster. Did I mention - metal resos on these. I never had a horn with metal resonators. My tech said it sounds like a vintage Conn or Buescher but defintiely more in tune and can project. BTW for a 70's horn the lacquer is still there maybe 99%. It is darkening but no pitting or flaking.

Check out a similar sop at cybersax http://cybersax.com/4Sale/Saxophones/Sopranos/Saxophones_Soprano.html

If you're looking for a sop that would hang with the keilwerths and yamaha's, selmers and yani - check out B&S. Good price - exc horn

[Dr G]

Hey Noel,

That sounds like a great discovery. Is Janet ("Second Wind" in Albuquerque) doing your work? I need to see how her schedule is looking these days. I live up north from you but the trip down is worth it - and it helps justify having a backup horn of each flavor so I can leave a horn in her shop for a month at a time! :D

As far as getting comfortable with low palm keys. I found that one big difference between playing vintage and modern (high palm keys) horns is whether you have your elbows close to your body or sticking out. You may find that adjusting your elbow position will help change your wrist position enough that the palm keys fall into a comfortable place.

Enjoy the horn!

[noelpaz]

DR G,

Yes Janet's the tech - she does good work and is very busy. But seems to be the only competent one in the state. She did mention 2 other guys but I think one is not doing it anymore and the other one is older and does very little. I don't use any of the music stores' techs. I had one bad experience and I wait for Janet

Are you in Taos or Santa Fe. Recently hooked up with Al Fayet in Santa Fe and I am going to the high mayem Fest. I live in Corrales just north of Albuquerque. I had been bringing the sop to work and it is still warm enough at noon to blow some tunes or I play in my van.


Nice to hear from someone in the Land of Enchantment here in this forum

[noelpaz]

But seems to be the only competent one in the state.

I meant Albuquerque Area - not the state - in my own experience

[Dr G]

Ditto the bad experiences with other techs in the area. I finally got rid of a Super 20 alto because of a BAD overhaul. Janet has done some really nice work for me too - including some dent removal on a neck that came out really well.

I'm in Santa Fe. I play with the Santa Fe Great Big Jazz Band and Con Brio (the Classical Saxophone Quartet of Santa Fe). I used to sub with SaxWorks (a jazz quasrtet out of Albuquerque) but am limiting my obligations due to a new family addition (infant, not another saxophone). In fact, if your reading is up to it, they could use another tenor - either as substitute or perhaps permanent. Let me know.

Do you participate in the Rio Grande Jazz Society? If so, you probably know Jim Irving and Gene (Bones) Hutchison.

Cheers,

George

[Uwe Steinmetz]

Hi,

I agree, wonderful instruments, I like the sound much better than the sound of the new B&S. I ahave a similar Soprano in two tone finish for sale for 900 US$, good condition, was lots of fun to play. It has to go because I need to raise some money for a tenor.

Take care,

Uwe.

www.uwesteinmetz.com / Email: us@uwesteinmetz.com
:D

[rapabq]

Noelpaz

Congratulations on such a great find! I've never played a B&S horn, but Dave Kessler tells me that they are wonderful instruments. I live in Albuquerque and just joined the forum last March after I purchaced a new Antigua sop and started playing again after many years.

rapabq