Opinions on True Tone Sopranos

[sessionsax]

I was wondering what is the consensus on the True Tone sopranos.

What Serial Numbers are best
What finish is best
Hows the intonation
Hows the tone
Whats a good price for one

Thanks ahead

[sessionsax]

Let me add that I have mine posted in marketplace, and its not selling as quick as I expected. I have always loved the horn, I would love some opinions on the horn. I may talk myself out of selling it.

[Dave Dolson]

Sessionsax: I have two Buescher TTs, both silver straight models. One is decidely better than the other tone-wise (brighter, more resonant). Both have wonderful scales and response. One is matte silver (with what appears to be a clear lacquer over the finish - it plays the best). The other is a shiny silver finish (unusual from what I've seen of old Bueschers). The serials are 252xxx and 232xxx.

You'll knock yourself out trying to determine best finishes and serial-number ranges. There are so many variables that anyone who tells you something about that may be blowin' smoke. If you like your TT, keep it. DAVE

[Bootman]

I have a 256K Sop that is incredible, bare brass with snap in pads but no Norton springs. The sound is exceptional. I would recommend these to anyone who is after a great Sop with exceptional intonation and altissimo.

[Roger Aldridge]

Did Buescher make any changes to their TT sopranos during 1926 to 1932? I'm curious whether the higher serial number TTs are better in general or if it's a matter of coming across individual horns that are more exceptional than others. :?:

The 238xxx TT soprano I have is a really sweet horn. Its intonation and sound are everything that I've ever wanted in a soprano.

[Roger Aldridge]

Sessionsax,

I just checked out the Marketplace notice about your soprano. $600 sounds way too low to me! Have you done some comparison shopping to see the prices for Buescher sopranos in your serial number range?

This soprano was probably made in 1922. It would be interesting to determine if there are any major differences between a 1922 TT soprano and one made in, say, 1929 or 1930. Gayle or Saxpics should be able to help us with that information.

The reason why I'm curious about differences in 1920's TT sopranos is that if you really like this soprano why sell it? From your Marketplace message it sounds like the intonation and sound are good. Is there anything about the horn that you don't like?

If your soprano just needs a little tweeking you might think about sending it to Steve Goodson. I've sent 3 of my horns to Steve. One of them was a problematic 1919 c-melody. He did a really amazing job on that horn. Night and day difference! It's possible that he could do just the right thing to your soprano. Anyway, this is just a thought.

One approach to vintage saxophones is to search for just the right horn -- a certain serial number range, finish, etc. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, another approach is to get what appears to be an essentially good horn and have someone like Steve Goodson work on it. Whenever I get a horn back from Steve it PLAYS and I've been entirely happy with it.

[Dave Dolson]

Both of my TT sops have the roller-style Ab key (and they come from the late 1920's). My TT alto (from the early '20s) has the button-style Ab key. I think that may be a difference among TT sops from various eras of the '20's, but I'm not sure. DAVE

[Gayle Fredenburgh]

Sessionsax, I saw your posting in the Marketplace about your soprano #112,xxx. Vintage Buescher sopranos made in 1922 were not available in a lacquer finish. Catalogs tell us that they were available in bare brass, silver plate, gold plate and combinations of silver and gold. Nickel plate was available but not recommended by Buescher. Buescher starting offering lacquer finishes in the early 1930s. The photo you referred to on the saxpics site is one of my sopranos but that horn has a gold plated finish. If yours looks like this and is a lacquered finish it is definitely a relacquered instrument. Of course, yours may be gold plated as well so.

Your soprano has some very important differences from the later sopranos that Dave and Roger have. The key mechanism is different - esp. that G# key. Yours has a round pearl and the later horns have the bar with roller G#. More importantly, the body tube is very different also. The later sopranos are actually a heavier horn with a great change in tonal quality. Intonation is also different. The sound is much bigger and projects more with the later horns. The later sopranos are generally preferred and valued higher because of this.

You asked about what finish is best, what serial numbers are best, etc., in your initial posting. Its really a matter of comparing one horn to another to find which one is the best player. Roger's 238xxx silver Buescher is one of the best sopranos I've ever played. I have one now in gold plate that is just as good but it is was produced a couple of years earlier. If you are interested in more specific info about sopranos, write me at VintageSax@aol.com.

[Grumps]

I've got a very heavy bodied, five digit (1919), curved, gold plated, but crusty, old TT soprano. Intonation had always been workable with a vintage Bundy mouthpiece, but since I've switched to a Selmer Super Session (I), it's been spot on. I gigged with the Super Session on this horn for the very first time at a nice club with my dixieland band last week. I had a long time, sax playing friend of mine in the audience who'd heard me on that horn for over twenty years, and had even borrowed it for a time some years ago. His comment to me that night, without me having told him I changed my setup or asking what he thought of the horn, was that it really projected and had a great sound to it. I also have a straight, black lacquered Mark VI soprano ('72) that I used to think was my 'real' soprano, with the TT being my 'gimmick' soprano. I know no longer feel that way. My TT is my #1 soprano.

[sessionsax]

Roger,

The reason that I am selling the TT is that I have been getting a lot of session work lately where I am being asked to "sound like kenny G".

The soprano plays wonderfull with a Bari mouthpiece, but when I broke out the Dukoff, the intonation got a little to loose to do recording with.

Its a frustrating situation. I have a YSS 62 on the way to try to get the contemporary sound that I am consistenly asked for.

I guess that I posted this to try to talk myself out of getting rid of the TT. It is very sweet with the bari mouthpiece and its not terribly out of tune with the dukoff -- just enough to make me go into judge it mode instead of play it mode. I do better when I don't have to be so in thought about the pitch when I am recording.

Nashville is a tough chty to stay busy in, and every little bit of psycological advantage I can keep helps. And there isn't much room for several takes.

[sessionsax]

All,

Thank you so much for the breadth of knowledge that was shared on this topic. I greatly appreciate it.

[sessionsax]

Gayle,

Thanks for the info. Based on your input, I am going to consider the TT a relacquer -- albeit a good one. I will add this info to the post. The color is definately honey and not the dark gold. It has the lacquer color of my Series II tenor. On closer inspection of the pics on the site, the TT pictured has a darker colored lacquer. I had initially consider it to be a dark picture.

How do you think this affects the price, and is 600 a fair price. Do you consider it worth more or less. I want anyone that purchase it to get a fair deal.

[Jack W.]

One more TT soprano owner here, I have a 217k series straight soprano in silverplate that I got from Gayle about 2 years ago. I have tried (and even owned) other sopranos since then, and none does everything I want it to like this one, in terms of playability, intonation, and sound. I finally had my tech make the two alterations I'd been craving, that is risers on the sleek low LH palm keys, and an ingenious front F mechanism that he cobbled together from parts from the junk bin. Like Bootman's later example (mine was made in 1926), mine has snap-in pads but not Norton springs. I use a Lawton 6*B for everything, whether legit or pit orchestra or church music. The only odd thing is that I can't seem to find a HR mpc that I like with this horn. Someday I may try to chase down an old HR Buescher mpc of the type that might have come with the horn.

[Roger Aldridge]

Jack,

Have you tried a Morgan on your soprano?

Last year Ralph made a soprano mouthpiece for me that's absolutely fantastic. He calls it a 6C. Essentially, he opened up one of his large chamber classical soprano pieces to .065. He might have done other things to it that I'm not aware of. This piece plays like a dream on my Buescher soprano. It feels like a perfect match. I've encouraged Ralph to make this piece part of his regular line. But, anyone can get one as a special order.

[Gayle Fredenburgh]

Sessionsax, I think $600 is a fair price for your Buescher soprano. It may be tough to find someone on SOTW who wants such an early horn in lacquer though. I've seen horns such as yours sell in that price range on Ebay.

[sessionsax]

Gayle,

Thanks for the info. I hope I get lucky and find an SOTW member that is intrested. It may be silly, but I have an attachment to the horn, and I would hate for a student on Ebay to find it and not take care of it. This soprano has a long history, and she is still in good shape. I do hope that someone here will take her and take care of her the way she deserves.

Its weird how saxophonists consider their instruments almost as children.

[Jack W.]

Have you tried a Morgan on your soprano?

Last year Ralph made a soprano mouthpiece for me that's absolutely fantastic. He calls it a 6C. Essentially, he opened up one of his large chamber classical soprano pieces to .065.

I appreciate the suggestion, Roger, as I have never tried a Morgan saxophone mpc (only one of his clarinet mpcs, which was very nice but I found a Ridenour that I like even better). I will have to keep an eye out for one of these, or maybe something slightly less open.

[paulwl]

Gayle Fredenburgh: It may be tough to find someone on SOTW who wants such an early horn in lacquer though.
Seeing that lacquer, on a horn of that vintage, means a refinish job has been done.

Original, raw brass is another thing entirely.

[paulwl]

sessionsax: Nashville is a tough city to stay busy in, and every little bit of psycological advantage I can keep helps.

Have you learned to twang? :D

[sessionsax]

paulwl

I double on guitar and being from Nashville, I do have a tele. Occassionally, I will get the urge to do some chicken pickin, but it is occassionally.

Just so you will know, this town has a great R&B and CCM scene. And, a lot of the jazz players are moving here. There is a lot more going on here besides country. :)

[Bootman]

I found it hard to find anything inthe Jazz field when I was there 2 years ago. Interesting city though.

[sessionsax]

Yeah, Nashville is a mainstream music town. The are several good jazz clubs here that keep the bands working. There are a couple of labels here that promote jazz -- hillsborojazz is one of them.

There is also a new jazz school here that is bringing more jazz awareness

www.nashvillejazz.org

We do have some world class jazz players

Pat Coil
Beegee Adair
Dennis Solee
Lori Mechem
Jeff Coffin
Jeff Kirk

The list goes on. I don't consider myself a jazz artist though, I just don't connect with the music -- although I do study it and incorporate a lot of its elements. I am just an R&B guy. I have done some jazz gigs and can make it through the changes on most tunes -- but I know that my approach is not authentic -- but the average listener doesnt have a clue.

[aanz]

Just chiming in as another Buescher straight sop owner. I have a nickle plate, sn 219xxx, with the round pearl G#. It's a sweet playing (and sounding) horn but I like my Martin (Wurlitzer) better.

Gayle, do you know why Buescher didn't recommend nickle finishes, it certainly doesn't compromise the sound to my ears.

Roger Aldridge, I lost your email address. I sent Ralph a 1C to rework into a Aldridge Special 6C. I spoke to him today and after our initial understanding, there is now some confusion as to what he did to your sop piece. Did yours start out as a 6J and end up as a 6C (as Ralph remembers it)? He says going from 1 to 6 is too drastic and will compromise the playability of the mpc. He's making it a 4C (.55) and we'll see how that works. I'll keep you posted.

[Roger Aldridge]

My email address is nancyandrog@earthlink.net

I thought that Ralph told me that he started with one of his classical soprano mouthpieces. The one that he used for me was a piece that he found in his workshop that was cracked. He wasn't going to sell it to anyone. But, at the time he was having trouble getting his hard rubber soprano blanks from Europe and I was desperate to get a Morgan soprano mouthpiece. So, we agreed to try this mouthpiece. Ralph patched the crack and opened it to .065. I don't recall Ralph telling me it's original tip opening. But, I'm fairly sure that he said that it was a classical piece.

In my mind, the important thing is to have the same chamber size and type of baffle as a Morgan classical piece. If Ralph can do this from starting with one of his jazz pieces I'm not sure if it matters that much. Anyway, this is Ralph's call.

I know for certain that Ralph called this special order mouthpiece a 6C.

Hope this helps.