Bruno New York Perfection

[milandro]

Alright, :) I've just won a Baritone which I believe is a CONN stencil, I don't know if I am going to keep it (I've never played baritones until now) so I am interested also in knowing your evaluation on how much it is worth it.

it says:
PATD DEC8 1914
B
P18XX
L
perfection
made USA
Bruno
NY




Any takes on this, I've had a look at saxpics but found only a small picture of an Conn New Wonder which looks a bit like this

[Hornlip]

Looks like a Conn to me. And the serial number layout is similar to that on the older Conns, as well.

[Swingin' Cat]

Email the guys at www.usahorn.com about it. They had a Bruno baritone listed for sale on their website for a while. I emailed them about it, and as I recall, they knew a good bit of the history of the Bruno make.

[milandro]

cheers! thank you guys!

[bruce bailey]

C. Bruno & Son was a wholesale music company for many years. They had a catalog that local music stores put their name on and showed items to customers that could be ordered. This way a small town store could have access to stuff like harp strings, banjo cases, stands and other items they would not stock on a regular basis. I dealt with them in the early 70s and they are probably long gone.
I didn't look at the photo of the Bari but the P in the serial number would make it a Conn but styled like a Pan-American with no rolled tone holes.
It should be a good player.

[Connical]

It's a Conn stencil, of course. It has the Mercedes Benz keyguard at the bow. Like Bruce
said, a Pan American. Looks to be in good shape. Nice score !

[Dave dix]

I always thought bruno was a conn stencil name , you learn something new everyday
Dave

[milandro]

I'm going to pick it up tomorrow, it is going to be my first experience with a baritone, I am a little unsure about playing baritone, but I definitely want to give it a try and if at first you don't succeed......sell the beast on :D
Thanks I've heard before that it was a Conn sold via the Bruno company (someone somewhere said that they still existed until not so long ago) but I am not sure of its vintage and what type of conn would be exactly, so, a Pan American you say, nice to know! Thanks!

[milandro]

Ok I have the baritone. It is ok, but is not in great shape. It needs some attention and I would have to decide whether to give my full attention to it (about 500 dollars worth it at my technician) or not....perhaps I like to consider re-selling it....any Idea of what this would be worth on the market?

[Dave dix]

Bite the bullet and get it repaired as bari's dont often come along cheap
Dave

[milandro]

Bite the bullet and get it repaired as bari's dont often come along cheap
Dave

I' going to sell this, it has been posted between the horns for sale

[milandro]

I've been updating a picture here, any more info an this horn?

[baritone]

i used to have a C-melody of this branded sax

[milandro]

any idea of the serial numbers? I can't figure it out! By the way my horn is up for sale on the dutch secondhand site " Marktplaats.nl " and I have advertised it on the For sale section here.
Baritone, I see you still have your Adolphe sax haven't you sold it yet?

[milandro]

apparently it looks like a Conn New Wonder which dates even earlier that what I thought......

[SearjeantSax]

thought you might like to know, the Conn new wonder series 2 patent was passed in 1914 aswell

[milandro]

Thanks (of Bedankt....if you still remember how to speak Dutch! :) ), this horn is getting more interesting by the day, actually I did manage to play it and it has a very big sound (but I am not really used to produce the Baritone sound yet ) I thought of selling this horn but I am getting a little doubtful, after all this is a real classic horn but I am not much of a collector, more a wannabe player and was thinking of a more mdern bariton with a reach at least to F and hopefully from low A so this would go towards that.....possibly

[monicloss]

I actually recently purchased what I believe is a Buescher True-Tone stencil sax through ebay... The engraving reads "Perfection- Made in USA Bruno NY"

I've read this thread regarding the Bruno NY models, and most commonly they were Conn stencil saxes-as you seem to have- but this particular model doesn't have the Mercedes key guard, which I was led to believe ALL Conn stencils had no matter what.

In any case heres the link to the auction with some sweet pics- Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/vintage-silver-tenor-saxophone-Perfection-Conn-Buescher_W0QQitemZ190127117921QQihZ009QQcategoryZ1 6234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I couldn't resist, she looks absolutely gorgeous so I am hoping it's a decent stencil- Conn or Buescher... Whaddya think???

Thanks!! :D

[milandro]

looks nice but I am sorry to be in no position to help you with a positive identification of your horn, congratulations!

[stitch]

I couldn't resist, she looks absolutely gorgeous so I am hoping it's a decent stencil- Conn or Buescher... Whaddya think???

Thanks!! :D

Buescher - you can tell by the bow and neck braces.

[Sax Hut]

Monicloss, as stitch said: Buescher. More precisely, a stencil of an early model in the True-Tone "The Buescher" series. Good catch for $385 in playing condition.

[milandro]

anybody has any more info on this horns or indeed Pan american baritones of this vintage? I have hear dof them being choosy when it comes to mouthpieces, is it so?

[milandro]

Following a closer inspection and further research, my baritone seems to be more closely related to a Wonder improved or a New Wonder than I previously thought, does anybody know how to tell them apart? I found that it is very choosy about the mouthpiece with intonation issues probably related to it. I am currently looking for a Rascher or a similar Big Barrel mouthpiece which, apparently, will have what it takes to deal with my horn peculiarities. It is definetly a low pitch horn, but I've read of several people having to solder an extra piece of tubing onto the neck to solve the intonation problem. Any experience?

[rambert]

Milandro,

I have a Buescher Big B baritone that has simular problems you are experiencing with your Conn. I found a STM Link to JUST play more or less in tune by having it on the very end of the neck.

The trick does seem to be to find a mpc with big enough inner dimensions. I posted a reply in another thread a while ago: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=60984

I'm still not where I want to get with it, but was lucky enough to find a Lamberson SB that is one of the only mpc's that has a big enough volume to keep it in tune.

I'm in Belgium and since you're in Holland, perhaps I can let you have a try on the Lamberson to find out if this solves your problem. PM me if you're interested.

[milandro]

Rambert, thank you very much indeed for your kind offer. It is ever so nice of you to offer me to try the Lamberson. I am currently trying to acquire a couple of old fashioned pieces but if I can't find anything, I will certainly try to come to see you (I live in North-Holland which is not very close to Belgium) , at some stage, to see if your solution has some possibility for me. I am also looking into the possibility to make the neck just a little longer with an extention (some suggested one inch should be doing the trick). It is amazing though that this problem doesn't have more people discussing it. There must be thousands of this generation Baritones out there with intonation issues and one would think that many more players would have noticed it and taken some steps to address this problem.

[rambert]

It took me a while to find sufficient information on this problem, but most of it is to be found on this forum (see the link in my earlier post).
You can always try extending the neck as it's something that can be undone, so no harm done if it wouldn't work out.

BTW: sorry for snatching that Bundy mpc (yep, that bastard was me) :D , but you can give that one a try too. At least you'll know for sure if it would solve your problem

And don't give up on that Conn yet. If it's anything like my Big B, it will have a fatter bottom than any modern low A bari once you've fixed your tuning issues:)

[milandro]

Geen Probleem ! No problem! You win some, you loose some ( you won!:evil: :D ;) ). I definetly want to try anything else before of going the extention way. I believe that if someone ever made this horn to work it has to, without tampering with it.

I am currently bidding on a couple of big barrel mpcs, we shall see!;)
Thanks!

P.S. Just as well it is not a naked lady.......a naked lady with a fat bottom just wouldn't do!

[Carl H.]

You could have an extension put on your mouthpiece. I've sees a few pieces with this done to them.

[bruce bailey]

For now, try pulling out at the neck to body and see if it helps.

[rambert]

Geen Probleem ! No problem! You win some, you loose some ( you won!:evil: :D ;) ). I definetly want to try anything else before of going the extention way. I believe that if someone ever made this horn to work it has to, without tampering with it.
My opinion too. Only a pity that it limits the choice of mpc's!



I am currently bidding on a couple of big barrel mpcs, we shall see!;)

I suggest you do not tell me which auctions those are :D
Good luck!

[milandro]

For now, try pulling out at the neck to body and see if it helps.

It doesn't work on this type of horns because of the octave mechanism being on the body and not on the neck.

Carl, I am intrigued by the mouthpiece extention option, I've read about it but how would one do that (unless we are talking metal ......)

[Carl H.]

It doesn't work on this type of horns because of the octave mechanism being on the body and not on the neck.

Carl, I am intrigued by the mouthpiece extention option, I've read about it but how would one do that (unless we are talking metal ......)

I'm sure Mojo or EZ could help you out.

[bruce bailey]

I was not referring to the ocatve vent changing the playing. I was thinking that having the mouthpiece shoved onto the neck may help and the tuning would be done at the neck to body. The Octave vent really is not a tone hole as it is a vent.

[milandro]

it has been suggested several times that in order to " lengthen " the neck one could simply pull it out a little (therefore increasing the tubing lenght of the neck). This is impossible in this model because the octave hole(vent) would not be closed anymore (since the mechnism is on the body and not on the neck, the positioning would separate the vent/hole from the pad that opens/closes it), in this particular model even turning the neck might produce the same effect.

[bruce bailey]

I thought you meant the octave key was on the body. I guess it is on the neck then.

[milandro]

no, the octave vent (hole) is on the neck, the key to operate it, is on the body......an image is worth a thousand words....

[Carl H.]

That's a real bummer. I hope the neck position is good.

[milandro]

it's rather good,actually, I have to say, I don't mind the saxophone's neck being coming straight at you, in front of you. In general, all the necks of my saxophones are pretty much kept straight. Angling the mouthpiece a little, as you know, gives you the possibility to hold the saxophone at your side. The only postural improvement might be to lower the metal loop for the neck strap just a little (possibly with a rimovable implement) to lift the horn just a little

[TommyD69]

All the Conn stencils have "un-rolled" tone holes. Also REAL early Conns did not have RTH either. The lack on "pearl" key touches tells me that this is and old Conn, like 19 teens vintage.

I have also read that there are some pieces out there that have a extra long shank (as a golfer I HATE that word) which will eliminate your sharp problem.

Still a really cool looking horn, even if the octave key is totally "goofy"... But, It's a bari... where the heck would MoTown be without bari sax's... Some day I will have one to complete my collection......

[milandro]

yes this is a real early Conn, probably made when, even the proper Conn, had no rolled tone holes either. I think, in actual fact, that this is a " Wonder improved" , I am not sure but apart from the pearls I believe that the difference might be in the position of the C vent (the one operated by the right palm key) which is not what I think is in later models.

I really need to get hold of one of those mouthpieces......