Do I dare to buy Borgani?

[hakan]

Hi!
My situation:
I play a Yanagiswa 880 tenor which I've had for years. It works but doesnt sound like I want it to sound. I'm thinking about buying a Conn 10m. I have tried a few and I really like the sound. The ones I've tried have been in too bad condition in relation to the price, so I'm still searching. I live in Sweden and most of the Conn tenors seem to live in USA so that would mean I have to buy something I haven't been able to play. I'm also a little scared of the ergonomics although it doesn't feel completely impossible to get used to.

I've tried a few new horns of different brands (Yanagisawas, Yamahas, B&S, Selmer ref) and even if I like some of them better than others I must say they sound more or less the same to me. With the exception of the Selmer Ref horns which I really liked. (But I still prefer the Conn sound). The B&S Medusa was also quite good (but not enough), with a big sound.

My Question:
I'm reading a lot of good things about the Borgani Jubilee Tenors, but I cant try one. I would have to order it from Italy. I believe from what I read that I might like it. If I dig the Conn sound, and also like the selmers better than all other modern horns I've tried. Do you think there's any risk that I won't like the Borgani? Any drawbacks?

Thanks for any opinions!

Also: Any sounddifference between Unlaquered vintage / Pearl gold?
Any soundimprovement if leaving out the high f# ?

[JimD]

You could always try visiting Saxofoonwinkel in the Netherlands. A few days spent trying out a range of horns would be preferable, and cheaper in the long run, than buying a horn you've never tried or heard and not liking it. Saxofoonwinkel have an amazing selection of new and used horns, don't know about Borgani, and they are sort of in your neighbourhood, and if you can get a cheap flight your only problem will be in choosing. You don't mention Keilwerth among the horns you've tried and that would seem to be an obvious candidate.

I was tempted by all the Borgani discussion but in the end I went and tried about a dozen vintage horns and bought a Super20. I no longer want a Borgani although I'd still like to have a go. I'm sure they are good horns but there is a lot of trade in second hand Borganis that I find a bit disquieting, I wonder why people aren't holding onto them. There is also a lot more discussion about the finishes and different sonic qualities between them than with other horns so that's another decision to make in the audio dark. I would never buy a horn that I hadn't played.

[gary]

I played in a group in Italy this summer that had a guy who played an alto Borgoni and he had a beautiful sound. His concept of playing was softer and sweeter than mine, sort of Desmond-ish, and I don't now how much of the sound was him or the horn; I didn't play his horn. But he was real happy with it and it sure suited him well.

I do agree, however, with the advice to go to Saxofoonwinkel if you can. I tried a Yamaha yesterday and liked the ergonomics and wasn't impressed with the sound and then I blew one phrase on a Selmer series II and the sales ladies heads just instantly bobbed up and they looked at me. We were all surprised at what a huge difference the sound was. I would've taken that horn any day and my point is that, until playing it, I haven't even been considering buying a Selmer. Better to "try before you buy" if you can.

[Dr G]

I'm sure they are good horns but there is a lot of trade in second hand Borganis...

Really? Are you talking about what you have observed here at SotW or other? Are the horns that are being resold "Jubilee" models or the earlier/lesser instruments?

If you are talking about the three Jubilee tenors that have traded here, one went to me and it's staying. The seller of that horn ultimately bought another - his issue was one of getting the correct finish and corresponding core sound. The third was a similar matter - the seller was looking for a darker sound and was indeed seeking another Borgani.

To the original poster: There is the same issue as with buying any horn unseen/unplayed - if it is a bad match for you, you either live with it or sell it. I do think that they have considerably more character to their sound than many other horns on the market but there seems to be no shortage of people that prefer and buy the horns that I don't care for. I have been playing for 30 years or so - and playing Selmers most of that time. I love the Borgani silver pearl Jubilee tenor. That's just one data point and should mean nothing to you. 8)

:borg:

[Leon]

I have to add to Dr. G's note. I have seen precious few of these Jubilee Borgani's on the web selling used. I sold one, which I immediately regretted, and bought another I love. One seller wants the silver rather than Gold, though frankly, I don't hear an enormous difference. I briefly owned a Vintage Jubilee I swapped for the Pearl Gold. In this case there was a discernable difference in the alloy in terms of tone. The Vintage did have a Vintage sound, and was HUGE, but for my taste, a little on the brash side.

The main hesitation in buying one of these instruments, the only one in my opinion, is that they are difficult to sell at a good return price, because so few players have had the opportunity to play them. This is something to consider long and hard if you are buying one without the benefit of ever having played one. Also, the way they are set up is very important. I have owned them having been purched from both Roberto and Randy Jones, and both were good, but very different. Randy Jones went after the old Conn sound deliberately.

If you look up the Borgani website you will find European dealers - I believe there is one in Austria.

If I found one on ebay, I would probably sell my Mark VI and buy it and keep both Borgs, if they were of a different alloy and setup. In fact, the only reason I would not is because the VI is an investment that increases in value.

These horns sing.

Leon

[hakan]

Thank you guys for all the different inputs! I basically agree with the principle of not buying a horn I havent played. Of course the right thing would be to go to travel to the factory and play them, but at the moment thats not possible.
It was very interesting to hear you said there was quite a big sonic difference between the "vintage" and the goldmodel.
One thing (also very interesting) I dont understand is "how the horn has been set up" changes its soundcharacter? (Not speaking of different mouthpieces/reeds, but the horn itself) Of course it can be done good or bad but does it change the voice of the instrument? I guess these different setups doesnt mean adjustments but different pads / resonators etc.
I have a used SML Goldmedal horn on its way here for trial. Another horn I have no experience of, but maybe it is what I'm looking for, I'll find out.