Older B&S horns?

[Subtone Sam]

I'm looking for information about older B&S saxophones.I have a chance to buy one B&S alto,silverplated,says "Made in GDR".It is not in playing condition but looks OK and it is much heavier than modern altos (thicker metal,I guess).I don't know the serial number yet.Seller is asking around $600 which includes overhaul.All information more than welcome! Thanks!

[goodsax]

There's a "vintage" silver-plate B&S alto on eBay, item #2557935537, at $400 as of 11:30 AM, PDT, today. It's s/n is 7502 and the seller says that puts the manuf. date around 1975. It also indicates that for more B&S information and photos of a matching tenor go to:
http://www.cybersax.com/4Sale/Saxophones/Tenors/Saxophones_Tenor.html .

[Subtone Sam]

Thanks,goodsax! the alto looks like same vintage than the tenor on the cybersax page.sounds like they are good horns :D

[goodsax]

They do come across as good horns, Sam, but like many others that have evolved over the years, some changing manufacturers along the way, another source advised me, "B&S is having some of the horns they sell to LA Sax (the Chicago series) assembled in Mexico." So, watch out for the later models being one of these. It seems almost axiomatic that the older the sax in these categories, the better the quality.

Consider this uncorroborated feedback. I took the source at his word and didn't, or couldn't, verify the information about the Chicago series comment.

[Subtone Sam]

thanks for the info,goodsax.this is a german-made alto,it says "made in gdr" which means western germany,its from the 70's or earlier.i'll check the sr tomorrow.thanks again,not much info of these in the net.

[goodsax]

The silver one on eBay says made in GDR as well. You should be okay with yours. Whatever you decide, I hope it turns out to your satisfaction. I know I just agonized over whether to buy a Buescher stencil alto for Gretsch and, after many forum exchanges and Q&A with the seller, I decided to go for it. It's scheduled to be delivered next Tuesday, 9/23.

Best of luck,
Rob

[Subtone Sam]

Thanks.By the way,GDR actually means the old eastern Germany (before the notorous :borg: DDR),not western Germany.

[silver-sax]

GDR - German Democratic Republic

[Harri Rautiainen]

Beautiful German built instrument of the highest quality....
The standards in the former East Germany may have been high, but how they were met varied.
You. Sam, know this anyway.
-Harri

[Rubel]

You know what B & S REALLY stands for, right?

[cmelodysax]

Go on Rubel - I'm sure you're itching to tell us what 'B & S' stands for......

[noelpaz]

I have an old B&S soprano -- I think it is a 74. Just got an alto from ebay. These are good horns. I had been looking for alto for a while and 300 is not bad for a good looking one. Would probably need an adjustment. My soprano played all the way even with a G and G# leak. Very vintage conn like sound. The one I got should be made around 73. I played a B&S tenor. Holy cow! These guys can challenge a Keilwerth anytime.

[barelytone]

Yes, my #2253 tenor sounds closer to a Keilwerth than anything else. Somewhat more resistant than my Post TH&C tenor. Anyone have mouthpiece preferences they would like to share on these OLDER B&S horns? I play a 120b RPC . . .

[barelytone]

P.S. , what is the serial # on your '74 soprano?

[noelpaz]

barelytone
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject:
P.S. , what is the serial # on your '74 soprano?
2712

[barelytone]

Bear at Cybersax.com has a B&S soprano for sale, serial #36xx

[noelpaz]

:D

I just got a 65xx B&S alto for 299. These are good horns. Mine has 3 dents on the bell and on the bow - shallow that you cannot feel it on the inside.

I took it to my tech who was too busy to work on it -- in 2 weeks she said. Also being in New Mexico and a horn coming from Oklahoma, I probably need 2 weeks for the pads to aclimate. She did find 2 - 3 leaks but the horn plays. It came with a Conn Precison plastic mouthpiece -- crap according to a lot of reviews but the horn still plays. I have not played alto for almost 16-17 years and I sold my Otto Link slant years ago. My reed was a new Blue box Vandoren 3 - so really I don't have the best setup but I was able to play the horn for almost 3 hours. The tone was sweet but had a focused power to it. I was struggling at the low C a bit but otherwise it played fairly in tune and even and of altissimo was not bad. B&S horns are resonating freaks. The vibration was felt in my teeth immediately but this is what probably contributes to it's focused power. My B&S soprano is the same but the alto was even more.

Construction was top notch. They don't use corks but some sort of rubber instead. Mine came with metal resonators and a high F# and the it has rib construction, not as fancy as a Yana 990 but more like a 901. Noremovable bow to body screw. Lower stack keys are offset but not as offset asYana or Yamaha. The bell is not also drastically angled. The metal is tough and the horn is a bit heavy but not too heavy. 2 adjusting screws for the keys that I could see.

This horn obviusly has not been played for a while, but what gets me is that it still plays without any adjustment. Also the tone is really nice. More character and depth than the Yana and Cannonball at the tech's shop that was on consignment. I also tried it with a selmer C* and a Yana 5 and the Cannonball 3 classic and it responded well to the mouthpiece changes.

Minuses - the left pinky cluster was not as smooth as modern horns or selmer 6 - 7 but maybe it is just German engineering philosophy of making it tougher. Also the Eb guard was attached too near to the tonehole rim and that could mean disaster if dropped because the blow to the guard could damaged the tone hole. The neck octave key was also operated by a coil spring. This might not be easy to replace. I hope this horn will accept aftermarket necks.

I am sold on B&S horns. This is my second one. If Ihave to buy a new horn I'll definitely get a B&S. This horn can go head to head with Keilwerth , Buffet , Yana and maybe even some Selmers. Sleeper horns -- get them as soon as you can!

[barelytone]

Yes, I agree about the real quality of these horns. My serial #2253 Tenor came off of ebay and has one dime sized dent at the bottom of the bow. Pads are all near perfect, adjustment is very playable. Looks like it was hardly played at all. price was $399. I too wonder what after market necks it would accept 'off the rack' - it seems to have a larger bore than a Selmer, but I don't know . . .

[djackson_manchester]

Are B&S the same East German company that used to make Sonora and Weltklang saxes in the 70's ? I think they also made a variety of other badge engineered stuff as well - Berg Larsen , Selmer Pennsylvania sopranos and Trafford . If people are starting to think these things are good , god help us ! They were always considered to be the worst things this side of china . My Trafford tenor has well dodgy intonation ( flat as a pancake in the palm keys ) even if it is built like a T34 tank .
We won't even go into how bad their mouthpieces were .....

[xuanvu]

I don't know how the old B&S were made, but the new line, the Medusa, is one of the best saxophones made today... They also make the Guardala saxes.

[noelpaz]

Are B&S the same East German company that used to make Sonora and Weltklang saxes in the 70's ? I think they also made a variety of other badge engineered stuff as well - Berg Larsen , Selmer Pennsylvania sopranos and Trafford . If people are starting to think these things are good , god help us ! They were always considered to be the worst things this side of china . My Trafford tenor has well dodgy intonation ( flat as a pancake in the palm keys ) even if it is built like a T34 tank .
We won't even go into how bad their mouthpieces were .....

I think that was Amati -- you are talking about. Both my B&S are from the 70's are they are all good. intonation, volume and feel - especially the alto is btter than my Buffet and B (even these are tenors). I have not compared it with a French alto but it beats a Professional American made Selmer and a Yamaha AS-62. The only minus is the feel of the left pinky - cluster ---- but it is more closer to a Conn o early keilwerth.

[djackson_manchester]

Here's a bit of cutting and pasting from my web searches (largely alt.music.saxophone) ...
Weltklang was the student line of B&S.
They are a very basic horn, of very basic construction, and not terribly well put together at that. Perhaps the most critical problem is that the tone-holes are seldom level, so the instrument begins life with some pretty major defects. The quality of soldering is poor and fittings are prone to part company with the body. Having said that, it is possible to work on them to turn them into a reasonable cheap horn - providing you buy them at the right price, i.e dirt cheap!
You may also see Weltklang saxes badged as B&M Champion, Berg Larsen
Lafleur and Sonora.
Their professional line was B&S, that is the only brand that has survived
the GDR.
.....The German maker Weltklang/ Meister would put the name of your choice on their sax if you bought just 1000 ....
...Sonora was a brand of B&S (VEB Blechblas- und Signal-Instrumenten-Fabrik) as was Weltklang.....
.....The Trafford tenor is a rebadged B&M Champion - made in East Germany. Build quality on these things is terrible, with warped tone holes
being a common problem - and the pads are what you'd call 'catering
quality'....
My own investigations suggest that the Trafford saxes were imported by Barratts of Oxford Rd. Manchester , England (a now defunct musical instrument shop) sometime in the early 70's and were Weltklangs that they had engraved with the Trafford brand name (Trafford being a part of Manchester famous for Manchester United football team)
Most sax dealers in the UK don't have much good to say about East German saxes , although obviously these days the B&S factory has been completely modernised and their new instruments are a different breed altogether . The old B&S professional range seem to be regarded favourably , it's the budget priced Weltklang, Sonora , B&M etc. that should be treated with caution - they're certainly playable if set up properly and it has to be said that old GDR brass is tougher than some far eastern instruments I've encountered .

[barelytone]

Yes, B&S are the horns being discussed in this thread, the ones you refer to as the "professional line". All of the other horns you speak of, are not the horns this thread is regarding. Suggest you look at Cybersax.com to help differentiate.

[barelytone]

Actually, maybe folks who have these older B&S horns should just, you know, stop talking about them. For like 10 years . . . :)

[Mark R]

I own a B&S Codera tenor in gold lacqeur and a B&S Codera alto in clear lacquer with silverplated keys both circa 2000. I love these horns. Great full clear sound, smooth fast fluid keyworks and entire range has great sound from top and the lushest low end on any modern horn I have ever played in addition to being the finest design IMO.
Being so happy with the performance of these 2 horns I decided to get an older silverplate B&S...I think the serial # was 45xx and built in the 70's.

It is not near as good of a horn as the newer modern B&S horns. Built very heavy but I found it to be quite crude and the linkage between all the keywork...especially the long bell key rods to be sloppy, very noisy keys and not really that bad but in my opinion the B&S of today has come a long way and made some improvements since the older models. Of course I base my opinion on my one and only experience with the horn. The older one also has the bell brace with the blue B&S logo on it.

[frasermanx]

For sale .. an Oxford B&S Tenor serial #Made in Germany 92346

Take a look at pix .. not sure if worth $600 .. I haven't tried to play it yet

http://ecommons.net/~frax/sax/b-s/
Frz

[goodsax]

It looks good in the photos, frasermanx. What is the connection between B&S and Boosey & Hawkes?

[frasermanx]

Opps .. yeah I guess I thought they were the same?!?! BTW I saw new B&S with 3 necks for about $1500... any good??

thanks
Frz

[goodsax]

Opps .. yeah I guess I thought they were the same?!?! BTW I saw new B&S with 3 necks for about $1500... any good??


Sam Ash has been selling the last of their B&S Medusa sax inventory of the gold-brass models (gold body, silver neck and bell) for $1999 alto and $2199 tenor, but I understand they are running out of stock. If you found a new Medusa with three necks for $1500, alto or tenor, that's a heck of a deal, if not a steal.