Overhaul complete on the soprano!

[Stencilman]

I've got to share the excitement: I've just completed the big overhaul on my Martin Handcraft soprano stencil. This is a rare bare-brass beauty and is playing very well.

When I got the sax, it looked like hell: brown and black from tarnish and crud, rotten pads, corks all missing, slightly bent keys and a few small dents. It took a week to clean it out and polish the brass. I did all the typical stuff: fixed bent key cups, swedged loose keys, straightened bent key tubes, etc. This horn was not worn out but had seen a fair amount of action.

I used thin pads with flat metal reso's from MusicMedic (thanks Curt!). A few of the pads were a little thick mainly due to the back side of the rivet sticking out too far. It was easy to sand these down a little with 220 sandpaper. I also tried various types of cork and cork substitutes: Teflon sheets for a couple of sliding linkages, rubber bumper samples under most of the palm and side keys as well as under lower stack feet, rubber/fiber gasket material in most other places. I also used some rubber/cork gasket material under the A and E keys where you'd normally find felt.

I can see that I still need to re-straighten the rods on the low C#, B and Bb keys. Then it's time to give it a good wipe down and wax it with premium wax (I forget what brand I ended up buying, but it was expensive).

Now for the mouthpiece search. All I have now is a dinged-up Dukoff D6 and a Selmer C*. The horn is a bit out of tune with either mouthpiece, but I've read so many times that only certain large chamber mouthpieces will work with a vintage horn. Really, only A and F are significantly out of tune (both 15 cents sharp). I found that if I slightly change how high the upper octave pip opens, it greatly effects the tuning of A but not any notes above it. So maybe the out of tune notes can be adjusted without having to go with a darker sounding mouthpiece. I've always played Dukoff D8's on soprano, alto and tenor (all Selmers) but this is my first try with a true vintage horn.

So, I am very pleased with the results of the $230 total investment (horn plus pads) and about 30 hours worth of work. It was either the vintage route or an inexpensive Asian sax (Prestini, Jinyin, saxophone.com, etc.). I know wife thinks that anything old must be better quality than new. She's probably right.

The Martin Handcraft Alto stencil is on its way to my doorstep and it looks like it is in much better shape than the soprano was. Now to find that Martin tenor stencil!

[Alan G]

Congrats on the horn - and for do'n it yer self!! :D

On the MP search. While it is true that Martins like Large Chambered MP's - it is my experience, and seems to be the consensus on this forum that this IS NOT TRUE for Martin Sops.

I am using a Yani@#*$ (however ya spell it!) metal #5. This produces an outstanding sound for me.

I guess that any decent modern MP outta work.

Also - once again - I'll post what my tech did for my horn - and since yer do'n yer own work, perhaps you could try this very simple mod, and see if it works for you. If it does , let us know - that way, folks'll know I'm not nuts!

Take some brass tubing - and swedge it down so that it just fits into the neck. Trim to about 3/8 to 1/2" long. On mine - there is a slight lip on the end of this tube that catches the end of the neck - keeping it from sliding out the big end of the horn (lip is result of edge left from the tube cutter).

This mod (of course) chokes the bore of the neck. It made a slight but noticable change in the intonation of my horn. It just sounds better - and intonation is more centered.

This mod is entirely reversable - just pull out the tube.

Try it - you'll like it!

[Stencilman]

Alan,
Does the tube protrude from the neck? Just enough to keep it from falling out (or in - in this case)?

Did you have specific notes that needed help by this mod?
Thanks!

[Alan G]

Stencilman (what a perverse hobby - collecting stencils! :D ):

Nope - the "tube" is flush with the end of the horn. The "lip" I described is very slight - just enough to catch the end.

The brass tube is fairly thin - 0.025" wall? or less.. Standard tube. Tube length is between 3/8 and 1/2 - can you say 7/16ths? :?

As far as specific notes- sheesh - I don't remember! It was recommended and performed by my tech when I brought the horn in for an adjustment sometime back. It took him longer to find his swedging tool amoung the crud on his table than it did to do the actual job.

If I get a chance before the end of the millenium(!), I'll pull it out and check with a tuner and report back.

Don't hold yer breath.

BTW - I am a total idiot. That said - I'll point out the obvious. This mod won't correct an improperly regulated horn. May I humbly suggest that you get the thing as close as possible w/intonation - key heights and all that. THEN drop in the little tube mod - and smile.

Just try it! - "It won't hurt a bit - I promise!" (multiple quote from parents trying to get me to eat someth'n and Doctors/Nurses about to stick me with someth'n)

[rrex54]

Interesting observation about the sleeve -- it sounds a bit like the sleeve that is used on Buescher TTS and early Aristocrats. It seems that the lows can gurgle with smaller chamber pieces on many of them -- which may be why the tech recommended the sleeve.

I have an American Artist stencil -- apparently once silver-plated, now buffed and lacquered (but with strong engraving). The horn came to me with rivet pads in excellent condition and is an exceedingly sweet sop. What's interesting is that the mpc that came in the (apparently) original case is a stubby one that I also expect to be original. However, the mpc (on this and other sops) produces not just a stuffy D, but one I would call horribly muted. I have been playing a large chamber Conn Eagle piece on the horn with good results. While I'm not sure that (as I believe Paul C. contends) the large mpcs all play flat, one must be in top form to keep the upper stack notes from drifting a bit flat.

As USA Horn has noted, nothing beats a Martin sop at full song!

[Stencilman]

Stencilman (what a perverse hobby - collecting stencils! :)
Hey, nothing perverse about shelling out less than $500 for matching soprano and alto Martin's! :) Yeah, sure, they are "just" stencils, but they play just like the real Martin's back when they were new. Maybe they play better! So...

Stencilman, that's me!

[Doc Frazier]

Stencilman, email me about a martin stencil tenor
Yours in CHRIST, Doc
docfraz@juno.com

[MusicMedic]

I also tried various types of cork and cork substitutes: Teflon sheets for a couple of sliding linkages, rubber bumper samples under most of the palm and side keys as well as under lower stack feet, rubber/fiber gasket material in most other places. I also used some rubber/cork gasket material under the A and E keys where you'd normally find felt.


Very cool! If any of that harder material clicks or ticks you can laminate some Ultra-Suede or even pad leather to it. :D

[Stencilman]

Take some brass tubing - and swedge it down so that it just fits into the neck. Trim to about 3/8 to 1/2" long.
I tried this and the tuning of high A on up went terribly flat. I might give it another go with a very short piece of tubing (1/4" or less).

What's weird is that the horn is playing almost perfectly in tune now. I am using a different Dukoff D8 mouthpiece.

Also, I did wax the horn since I couldn't take how fast the bare brass tarnished. It's been about a week since I ploshed and waxed it and it looks absolutely stunning. It's got that "new car" smell too. :-) That must be the real reason it is playing in tune. You know how an old car always seems to run better after its been washed and waxed :-)

Actually, I think it is the combination of a comfortable mouthpiece and several hours of practice that has brought it in tune.

[aanz]

Hey Stencilman, Congrats on the stencil. I have a Martin/Wurlitzer sop that is absolutely great and plays pretty well with a number of current mouthpieces. I'm waiting for a custom Morgan now that I hope will be the "one". The Martin stencils are the only horns I know of that are no different than their normal production horns, it seems even the serial numbers match up.

[Stencilman]

The Martin stencils are the only horns I know of that are no different than their normal production horns, it seems even the serial numbers match up.
Yep, my stencil is identical to a gold-plated Martin from 1926 that I was lucky enough to see - even the engraving is similar (except for the name, of course).

I've always been confused about the Martin serial number charts and why there are two sets of numbers. My soprano's serial # is 176xxx which doesn't seem to jive with the charts unless you drop the first digit. In that case 76xxx puts it manufactured in 1926 or 1927 which makes sense.

Anyone else noticed that the Martin Handcraft soprano is almost identical to the Buescher TT in its key layout? I wouldn't be surprised if you could exchange parts between them. Don't know if this is true of anything else besides the soprano.