Pierret Info -- Websiteage

[Pete]

Howdy, folks. Long time, no post.

Because I've tied up some of the loose ends on a couple other projects I've worked on, I decided to work on adding more stuff to my website and because I've recently gotten a whole bunch of e-mail on them, I decided to address Pierret.

So, if you've got pics, send 'em my way: saxpics@gmail.com.

I also wanted to mention that Pierret's model list is SERIOUSLY difficult to comprehend. I've found the following model names ...

* Modele 5 thru 7
* Vibrator
* Virtuor
* Concerto with Virtuor (yes, that's the full name)
* Super Artiste
--> Robert Martin (sort of a SA stencil)
* Oxford
--> Runyon (Oxford stencil)
--> Olds Parisian (Oxford/SA stencil)
* Artiste Competition

Plus, there are a few with NO name, that I have to classify somehow: low B models, early models similar to the Modele 5, but not quite. Oh. It also looks like several models were available at the same time -- not to mention that it may be that Pierret used a different serial number list for every model.

[Farina_man]

Hi, it will be great if you can start unravelling the great Pierret mystery! the workings of the Pierret company are as baffling as the workings of Tony Blair's mind (assuming there is such a thing!).

In rough datal order, I own the following Pierrets which I shall, if you like, take some photos of, and then get my children, who understand technology rather better than I, to email to you:-
C-melody (stencil) - engraved "D.Davis, Sydney"
Alto - Virtuor Concerto
- Vibrator
Tenor - Vibrator
Alto - Modele 5
- Modele 5s
- Modele 6
Tenor - Modele 6
Alto - Modele 7
- Modele 7s
- (stencil of 7s) Hessy's Kingsway
- Artiste Competition
Tenor - Super Artiste
- Artiste
It may take a little while because some of these are in storage because of the size if my sax collection.

As to serial numbers, see my previous posts. I'm inclined to agree with you that the company used a new (or separate) series for each model. Sometimes there appears to be no serial number at all!

Fabulous horns, but a bit of a mystery. Good luck sorting it out!

[Pete]

Fabulous! Just what I could use. If you can't see my e-mail address, it's saxpics@gmail.com. I'm definitely interested in the 5s and 7s. I believe they're "Standard" models and I want to compare feature sets.

FWIW, folks, I have been able to find a grand total of two Pierret sopranos -- both straight -- and I think all of the pics of Pierret baritones I have are Olds stencils.

I have been able to find some patent numbers for Pierret, so I may be able to give some partial dating information.

[Pete]

Well, here ya go: www.saxpics.com/pierret

Quite a few pics, with links to more. A bit heavy on the conjecture, but that can't be helped, much. Some ideas on how to creatively tell how old your horn is.

I think you'll find some of the stuff interesting, at least.

[abadcliche]

It may take a little while because some of these are in storage because of the size if my sax collection.



One day, I hope to have that problem.

[Saxland]

Wow!!!!! What a lot of sluth work pieceing together a reasonable picture. Do you know if all Parisian Ambassador's were Pierrets? I played a friends tenor and it sounded alot like my Buffet Dynaction but with more resistance. The neck bore was smaller than the Buffet, and I know the pads were leaking on the Parisian. I thought it was a good sounding horn with good intermediate keywork. They go for cheap on ebay.

[abadcliche]

I'm getting deeper into the Pierret page now, and all I can say is wow.

I really like the conjecture section especially.


Now I want a Pierret! Pete, its good you live across the country, or my wife might come knocking on your door one of these days. I have had many conversations go like this:

Me: I got another sax in the mail today!
Wife: To fix up and sell?
Me: Uh, maybe to sell. I sort of just wanted it. But it was cheap!
Wife: What is it?
Me: A Pierret.
Wife: A what? That is a new one...
Me: Yeah, its not worth much, but I was reading all about them on saxpics and this one seems like a really neat one because the finish wasn't common, especially with this particular model, and- (etc., etc., etc.)

[Pete]

saxland, as far as I can tell, all Olds Parisians were Pierrets. Quoting myself: "Additionally, the Olds Parisian Ambassador MAY have had some Beaugnier models thrown in there: there are some with odd serial numbers, in the form of 01-23456 or 123,456, and I haven't seen pictures of these."

I should have added to that that I've seen a number of places that people say that Parisian Ambassadors are Beaugniers -- I know I've repeated that comment, myself. However, looking at the Pierrets and then the Parisian Ambassadors, they look too close to NOT say that they're the same. However, as said, I haven't seen horns with the funky serial numbers.

I THINK the Parisian was halted at about s/n 38xxx, FWIW. Also, FWIW, Olds stenciled their American horns from at least two different companies: Martin and Buescher.

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abadcliche, the comment I made on that page about how you should look for an "Artiste Competition" is probably the best advice I can give, especially as some of the Olds horns really do look nice, but I haven't seen that many comments saying that they're decent horns.

Marital advice, tho, well ... tell the wife you're getting it for her. That'll do it.

Now, if the value of these horns goes up, it's not my fault. I didn't post the review that the Artiste Competition sounds nicer than a Mark VI :D.

Looking at them, I think that the Super 8, Oxford (and Runyon stencil), the Super Artiste with the elaborately engraved keyguards and the Artiste Competition may be the cream of the crop -- just based on features and whatnot. Earlier? The sound may be good, but you might lack a front altissimo F. You might also run into the problem you had with that Dolnet: high pitch -- I don't see any indication on the horns that mentions it one way or another.

EDIT: Speaking of finishes, looks like the most common finish is silver plate. Later horns are either lacquer or lacquer with nickel keywork. Full nickel plate and/or gold plate is probably the extreme rarity. I can also say that I've seen a couple pics on the web -- thumbnails, really -- of Olds horns in black lacquer.

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I can speculate a bit further, too.

Couesnon had several lines of horns going at the same time, in the late 1890's and up until around 1935 -- I chronicle these on http://www.saxpics.com/couesnon/ noting the following "models" ...

Modele Monopole ("elaborately" engraved)
Opera (Series HN)
Armee (Series BN) or FourMsseursDeL'Armee
Armee (Series GNM)
National (Series BO)
Universel (Series CGO)
and Modele SO (or Series SO)
(... and some models may be unmarked)

You may wish to note how many models are above ....

These were ALL available at the same time and had variations from just engraving to missing keywork (with even low B models). I've seen a Couesnon catalog from the early 1900's that had some of these models advertised -- and with different prices for each.

It's easy to have a whole bunch of models when you're making each horn by hand (and Pierret had some sort of patented device to help them make horns -- patented about 1927).

This theory would adequately explain why the horns up to the Vibrator/Virtuor look practically identical and I think it's possible that the only real difference between the Vibrator/Virtuor and earlier models is the neck. Someone's gonna have to whip out some calipers to check.

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Finally, the nicest thing in this research was when I found that 1913 catalog of French music shops. That's going to be of some significant usage later.