Any experience with late model Super 20's

[Agent27]

I'm going tomorrow to try out a late model King Super 20 alto. I don't have the serial # but the seller says it was made in 1976 which would put it past the date that when the "official" serial numbers ended. It has the normal (not underslung). I've heard that these horns were made from parts left over after UMI took over. I have no idea as to the quality of these horns. Does anybody here have any experience with these? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[T.S.]

Contrary to what has been thrown about, UMI did not buy King until 1980. Horns built between 1975 and that time were built in Eastlake. The UMI site has, under the King site, put up an updated serial # list that goes into the 1980's.

I have a tenor manufactured in 1976 (576xxx) Brass necked originally with an underslung octave key,(since replaced with a Gloger Silver neck), and this tenor can easily hold it's own with any of about 15 Supers I've tried from earlier more "preferred" serial #'s. Although this vintage is not as pretty (engraved key cups had been eliminated a few years before, and Pearls on the palm keys had long since disappeared), but still has nickel rods and sounds rich and huge.
I've never tried one of the over the top octave keyed horns, and don't know if the neck curve was the same. and between about 76 and at least 1978, there was a real mishmash mix of over and under necks being sold with horns.
Altos seem to be a little more iffy intonationwise on palm keys, but good ones are quite fine.

[T.S.]

I just tried a 618xxx numbered Silversonic that according to the King Chart at UMI this serial # was built in about 1977. It had an over the top keyed silver neck that is for all practical purposes a SML neck (The neck brace is identical, the curve, and the yoke is identical except for the slight upward bend just before the vent pad). The horn was a little loose action wise, but had a fine core to it. The neck however, though it responds well, has a different curve and doesn't sound quite as full as my underslung version. With a repad and spring adjustments, it would be a fine playing horn.

[Saxdaddy]

Look up "Mike W" a member of this forum, and ask him about Eastlake super 20's, I did a rebuild for him, and he seems like it alot now. I found it to be a pretty good player, with a very nice and unique tonal character.

[AltoRedux]

I've got a 521xxx Alto I bought in the spring of '75, put away in '78 and started to play again last Christmas. It has the underslung octave, silver neck and bell. It has a big, big sound compared to the selmer VI i tried in '75 (thats what I went into the store to buy).

I was recently playing my teachers selmer and I still like the sound of the King better. However, it had gone horribly out of adjustment, with the top octave much sharper than the bottom, and a hugely stuffy D2. After tweaking it (the whole lower stack were too far open) and changing a couple of pads, Its much closer, but it still has a tendency to play sharp in the upper octave, and the D is still on the stuffy side. It's not me, because I can get the selmer to play in tune from top to bottom.

So I guess my horn bears out story that intonation can be a problem on the late kings. Me, I just love the sound, have resigned myself to being off ten cents here and there, and I just try to spend more time playing long tones with the tuner.

[Mike W]

My S20 Eastlake tenor (underslung neck) is dead on in intonation, for me anyway. I think that good intonation has more to do with a good initial adjustment and time on a horn than anything else. My first tenor (1957 Conn 16M) was tried by my first band director and I was told that the horn's intonation sucked. The next year, the new band director frequently complemented me on excellent intonation.

The S20 Eastlake I have is a fine playing horn. I have tried the following tenors since I have been playing it.

Selmer Ref 54 (nice horn, nice feel, but tame sounding to me)
Selmer T100 (real Boot's Randolph tone with a Dukoff D)
Yamaha 62
Yamaha 52
Keilworth pro model (don't remember model number--very nice horn)
B & S (pro model, also a very nice horn, liked it better than the Keilworth?)
Cannonball Mad Meg (interesting sound)
Cannonball silver
Various made in Taiwan tenors
Buescher 400

None even tempted me to give up the S20. The only contender so far is my 1943 Buescher aristrocrat tenor. I am saving to get SaxDaddy to overhaul it and I strongly suspect then it will be at least the equal of the S20.

I am sure there are better horns that the S20 eastlakes, but properly setup (meaning by an expert tech), they are great players, and a heck of a lot less expensive than the Selmer Mark VIs. Yeah, I want one of those too.


[/u]

[milandro]

Let me revive this thread (before you start a new thread....... use the search button right? ;) )

I've just bought a late 626XXX Super 20 alto , it was in almost perfect state and it had been kept for years in its original case. The SN puts it into +/- 1978 range (difficult to say) according to this chart
http://www.kingwinds.com/content/serialno.php

I just tried it for a while and it sounds fine to me (I hope to find out that it sounds great but I need a little longer with the new horn), the proper King sound that I know from my super 20 tenor (and a 613 alto that I had at some stage). It is a late production but it doesn't look at all like it was made anywhere else than( in other words It is not, in my opinion made by Yanagisawa or Yamaha) the U.S.A. (by the way it says so, not Eastlake or Cleveland though). As far as I can tell the toneholes are made the same way as on my other super 20, the lacquer is the same colour, and the level of finish is pretty much the same (aside from the lack of B and Bb engravings and overslung neck as opposed to underslung ).

Click on the pictures several times to fully expand



[/URL]
[URL=http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=king20altorightsidelarg.jpg] (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=king20altoleftsidelarge.jpg)

[Stan]

Hi Milandro, I will soon join the Super 20 club! :D

Stan

[warp x]

I left the Super 20 club one year ago, but before I had a Cleveland Super 20 with a silver neck. Before that I played an all brass Eastlake Super 20. That was a fine, fine instrument soundwise, just the intonation wasn't as good as the Cleveland one, and also some notes tended to be stuffy. So I let it go.

[averageschmoe]

I just overhauled an Eastlake that was just awesome. Intonation was excellent, felt fantastic.