Yani 9930 Tone

[bradshawm]

What is the core tone like on the Yani Silversonics (9930). Does the solid silver make them brighter or ? Thanks!

[Dave Dolson]

I recently played a silver Yana soprano alongside a similar lacquered brass model. I liked the lacquered brass horn better (an S991) - stronger and bigger tone. I suspect the differences may have been in the way the horns naturally differ and not because of the material from which they were made. DAVE

[Dr G]

In comparing two baris - 9930 and 992 - we favored the bronze horn. The silver horn was louder and harsh in comparison.

[Tryptykon]

I've wondered this myself .

After 1st getting an [late]880 tenor, then soon after, a 902 I wondered if the 9930
would be the next level of excellence ..

I think the tube since it has the majority of the tone holes might be the most
important section where materials would influence tone.

Of course, many believe that materials don't matter - Dave Dolson repeatedly
posts to this affect.

I wonder how close Yani's manufacturing tolerances are ?

Within a batch of 901s [coming from the factory], would some be markedly different ?

If it is true that Brass sounds no different than Bronze or Silver, than would
it be possible to find plain brass 901 that sounds exactly like a 9937 ?

[Dave Dolson]

My position on material is a bit different than my position on finishes, even though my posted experience above didn't show the expected result (silver brighter than brass or bronze).

I DO believe that a horn's material MAY make SOME difference when comparing horns made of solid-silver to brass and bronze. But, I believe the differences are slight, difficult to reconcile, and not of as much of a difference as the differences caused by the horn itself, the player, the reed, and even the room in which the horn is being played.

I know, that may be difficult to comprehend. Suffice to say I hear differences when I play my bronze sopranos compared to my brass sopranos. And no, I can't really attribute the differences to the materials. But there may be something to those comparisons, as opposed to finishes which I strongly believe don't matter.

Even if there are differences among the various materials, the quality of the differences are difficult to evaluate, especially if one thinks in terms of good, mediocre, and poor. I can spend my whole afternoon switching among my six sopranos (brass and bronze) and while there are differences, coming to any conclusion about which one is better is well-nigh impossible. They are just different, that's all. For sure, comparing two horns (solid-silver to brass, etc.) will not prove anything other than offer an anecdotal evaluation of those two horns. One would have to compare hundreds of horns to reach any valid conclusion.

I realize we all want definitive answers to these questions (like bradshawm posted) but answers like the one I posted above are weak, based only on an extremely limited experience. Of course, most answers here on SOTW must be taken with a grain or two.

My advice on sopranos would be 1) gather your financial resources; 2) select the best playing horn you can find regardless of the material from which it is made; 3) enjoy the horn and don't worry whether the solid-silver model may be better. If you have the bucks for a solid-silver Yanagisawa, then good for you. Spend the money and enjoy it. But it could be that the better player is the plain-jane lacquered brass soprano sitting alongside the silver one. DAVE

[Saxplayer1]

Amen Dave. Well stated.

[saxydad2]

I have both T992 & T9930 ; I must say that , played with identical setup , they are different animals . T9930 is much much brighter . BTW , my S9030 is very sweet that I don't even want to compare it with any others :D . However , my recent main horn is a $300 Kenosha Vito Tenor :?

[Tryptykon]

[double post]

[Tryptykon]

I have both T992 & T9930 ; I must say that , played with identical setup , they are different animals . T9930 is much much brighter .

I'm figuring the 9930 would be brighter - I'd really like to try one, sometime .:)

[HIDESAKU]

Hello everyone

I think you should try if you have a chance, and judge yourself.The sound depends on the person,the neck, the mouthpiece,the reed,the ligature,and player.
Generally,silver material sounds sharp and bright,however it needs a power to blow.bronze material is little dark and soft.
Anyway try them first.

[tume]

Hi!
I don`t undestand why yani bronze and silver models are so much expensive compare to the brass ones. There isn`t so much differences with material expenses.!

[shmuelyosef]

Hi!
I don`t undestand why yani bronze and silver models are so much expensive compare to the brass ones. There isn`t so much differences with material expenses.!
The cost of silver is an issue. There is probably 2.5-3 lbs of silver in a 9930 tenor. 2.5 lbs at $13/oz. is $520. The brass is effectively free. Also, alloying silver for structural applications is much trickier than brass (it's really not a great material to make instruments out of, particularly with drawn toneholes) so the raw material for a saxophone is probably quite expensive. When the original silversonics were made, silver was $0.80 per ounce. Actually, if inflation is accounted for, silver is a bargain today.

With the bronze it is almost certainly the manufacturing cost. Bronze is much less ductile than brass, so there are probably additional annealing steps and more tooling...as a result of the extra cost, they sell fewer of them, so the tooling is spread over fewer instruments.

Brass is also more expensive, as the price of copper has gone through the roof and this dominates the cost of brass (up 30% in the last 3 years, due to the China infrastructure buildout), although it is still a small fraction of the cost of silver (copper is currently about $1/pound). While the materials costs are not dominant, they are a significant fraction of the total. Remember, too, that you're also paying for depreciation of the manufacturing plant, administrative overhead, manufacturing overhead, selling costs, shipping, inventory carrying costs for the retailer, and some profit for the manufacturer and retailer (there is no longer a substantial wholesale middle-person in musical instruments other than commodity cheapos). I would hazard a guess that the basic manufacturing cost (materials and labor) of a high-end big brand saxophone is under $1000. Most of the other costs scale directly with that, so the materials cost difference will end up scaling by 2-3X. It does cost more to sell, inventory, and distribute more expensive specialty instruments (lower volume, inventory turnover is much less). Duties and tariffs also scale with value.

I rest my case...having a past that included trying to make profit from manufacturing and distribution of small-volume specialty products, I'm a little sensitive to people casually implying they are being ripped off without a full understanding of the picture.

...GUESS I NEEDED TO GET THAT OUT OF MY SYSTEM...

[thehighend]

Nice explanation, shmuelyosef. The Silversonic Yanagisawa's are expensive, but there are reasons for that, and it's great that you took the time to lay that all out.

[matty]

Yes, the 9930s are darn expensive...but man is mine worth every penny. Like everyone says, "to each his own," but I wouldn't change horns for anything. I have a great Selmer Balanced Action that has sat in the closet since I bought my T9930. The only drawback to the silver is that it's a softer metal and my neck is proof. Anyone know where to get a traditional (non "underslung" octave key) replacement neck for it?

[bbbouklas]

hi, my yani neck was a custon order from the factory with my sax.. it is 95 solid silver, overslung and has a bar to add strength (like conn10m).. next week I will be selling it so if you are interested you can give me on offer now (pm me)..I just got a plain underslung neck and I like it better!

[madmosse]

It all matters. Materials, shape (bore size [thats for you dave:)], curve, bell flare...), mouthpiece, reed, ligature, embouchure, breath support. Change the mouthpiece and it may make a huge difference. Change the lig, it may make a small difference. Its the sum of all the little things that can make a difference. But it's YOUR preference which matters. Got a setup you like? Find a horn that works well with it. Or, find a horn that you like, then start messing around with it. Play around with different mouthpieces. Try a bronze instead of a brass neck. Try a harder reed; try a softer reed. Try a leather lig instead of metal. Try a plastic dukoff instead of a silverite (worked for me). Try different resonators...its endless. It all matters. Find what gets you closer to the "sound inside your head" and hold on to it until something better comes along that gets you closer. The only way to find what works for you is to try it out yourself. no amount of talking about the sound characteristics of a vintage vs. modern horn is going to convince me which is better. I read a ton about Selmer SBA's and five-digit Mark VI's. I haven't ever read a bad word about them. After trying out vintage and modern horns I decided that Yani was going to get me closest to the sound I'm looking for. That's when I learned that I need to play it to find out.

That being said, the thing that matters most is the player. Your physical attributes have more control of the sound made on your horn than the horn does. Some of it you can't control, like the volume of your internal resonators (lungs, sinus cavities...). Some things you can control, like embouchure, throat shape, tongue placement, etc. Those things are often overlooked, but have a huge impact on the sound you create.

I also happen to believe (and this is my personal opinion), that the closer the sax component is to your mouth, the bigger the impact it has on the sound being created. Thats a general statement and not without its flaws. But mouthpiece has more to do with the sound I create than the horns I've played. Granted, some mouthpieces work better with certain horns, but I've always felt that the mouthpiece has the strongest impact on the sound I create, besides what I, as a physical being, bring to the table.

Back to the topic at hand. I think that material brings different things to the table depending on the type of horn (alto, tenor...). I play an alto 900uB, and tenor 991. Instead of playing on entire horns of different material, I messed with the necks. My justification is (in my opinion) in the neck is where much of the sound is being developed. Material changes, therefore, are going have the greatest impact in the neck. Besides, its cheaper :) Anyways, I like the silver on my alto, and I like bronze on my tenor, both over the stock brass neck. I think that the silver produces, not a brigher tone, but one that is more rich in higher harmonics. For me this difference mostly exists in the upper register. Instead of being realtively thin, and bright, my alto sounds bright but solid and focussed. The rest of the horn sounds virtually the same on either neck (subtle differences at best). The bronze seems to let relatively lower harmonics resonate more freely. The affect is felt in the entire range on my tenor, most noticeably in the bottom register and palm keys. I get a richer, but not thicker tone. The difference is felt greatest in louder dynamics.

I think since altos have a higher harmonic set that the silver will have a bigger impact on sound, than bronze and vice versa on tenor. I might infer, though I have no playing basis for this, that bronze on bari would be impactful (didn't say better or worse), and silver on soprano. That doesn't mean that another person won't prefer a bronze alto or a silver tenor or brass everywhere. Whatever works for YOU! Take what you will from my written descriptions, but there is nothing like play testing. It's all about personal preference and experience.

Shove that into your pipe and smoke it; tell me if you like the flavor :) Just my 2 cents.

Ryan