Beaugnier-SML-Leblanc-Noblet

[Jazzbrass]

A letter from Vito Pascucci (memories):

Soon after the war I met Mr. Strasser, the remaining owner of Strasser, Marigaux and Lemaire.  They were very successful with their Marigaux oboe.  It was made in Paris in the early days; now in La Couture Boussey where we have our Leblanc/Noblet factory.
Yves Rilba recently retired.  That seems to be the goal of all Frenchmen--to retire as soon as possible--Yves is 60 years old.  He has done a wonderful job for SML.  It's interesting that they moved to La Couture in 1975 when they bought the Malerne business.  Mr. Malerne was a Noblet foreman in 1904.  He played clarinet in the La Couture Municipal Band and Mr. Georges Leblanc was the director.  Mr. Leblanc would complain that Mr. Malerne's intonation was not good and after he started his own factory it got even worse!  Because they were good friends, Mr. Malerne enjoyed upsetting Mr. Leblanc and this was one of their ways of having fun. 
The SML company was sold to Seeberg, a Chicago juke-box manufacturer.  I negotiated with the principals of that company for four months hoping to acquire it, and it did not work out.  What a small world this is.
Hopefully some year we will again resume the production of the Leblanc System saxophone and that we will be able to produce the type of sound you enjoy and found in the old SML saxophone.
 
Leblanc owned the Beaugnier Saxophone Company of Mantes.  They manufactured the complete family of saxes but their production was very, very small.  Their factory was located across the street from the Selmer factory in Mantes.  Mr. Beaugnier made wonderful instruments, but unfortunately their cost of production was so high that eventually Mr. Leblanc closed the plant.  We still have all the tooling, but labor costs would be too high.
Georges Leblanc's son, Leon, and I were partners.  He will be 99 years old in November.  He was married last year for the first time to his lady friend of 40 years.  The French newspapers made a big story out of the fact that it took him 40 years to make up his mind.  Mrs. Leblanc is a very, very intelligent lady and I am so pleased they act like 20-year-old newlyweds.  It is possible because Mr. Leblanc started his musical career playing the soprano sax. 
Leon and Mary marrying at such advanced ages for each of them is interesting, and certainly is ending bachelorhood at age 98 years young!  They are doing well and Mr. Leblanc has agreed to begin work on a new model soprano clarinet, the LL100 for his 100th year.
Kindest personal regards.
Cordially yours,
 
Vito Pascucci

[goodsax]

Very interesting. Having recently become a fan of Beaugnier saxophones because my first experience with one was very positive, quickly followed by a few others, anything I can find about this fascinating relatively unknown company is of even greater value to me.

Thank you for sharing this letter. It will go in my Leblanc/Beaugnier file.

[Swingtone]

A letter from Vito Pascucci (memories):

Soon after the war I met Mr. Strasser, the remaining owner of Strasser, Marigaux and Lemaire.  They were very successful with their Marigaux oboe.  It was made in Paris in the early days; now in La Couture Boussey where we have our Leblanc/Noblet factory.
Yves Rilba recently retired.  That seems to be the goal of all Frenchmen--to retire as soon as possible--Yves is 60 years old.  He has done a wonderful job for SML.  It's interesting that they moved to La Couture in 1975 when they bought the Malerne business.  Mr. Malerne was a Noblet foreman in 1904.  He played clarinet in the La Couture Municipal Band and Mr. Georges Leblanc was the director.  Mr. Leblanc would complain that Mr. Malerne's intonation was not good and after he started his own factory it got even worse!  Because they were good friends, Mr. Malerne enjoyed upsetting Mr. Leblanc and this was one of their ways of having fun. 
The SML company was sold to Seeberg, a Chicago juke-box manufacturer.  I negotiated with the principals of that company for four months hoping to acquire it, and it did not work out.  What a small world this is.
Hopefully some year we will again resume the production of the Leblanc System saxophone and that we will be able to produce the type of sound you enjoy and found in the old SML saxophone.
 
Leblanc owned the Beaugnier Saxophone Company of Mantes.  They manufactured the complete family of saxes but their production was very, very small.  Their factory was located across the street from the Selmer factory in Mantes.  Mr. Beaugnier made wonderful instruments, but unfortunately their cost of production was so high that eventually Mr. Leblanc closed the plant.  We still have all the tooling, but labor costs would be too high.
Georges Leblanc's son, Leon, and I were partners.  He will be 99 years old in November.  He was married last year for the first time to his lady friend of 40 years.  The French newspapers made a big story out of the fact that it took him 40 years to make up his mind.  Mrs. Leblanc is a very, very intelligent lady and I am so pleased they act like 20-year-old newlyweds.  It is possible because Mr. Leblanc started his musical career playing the soprano sax. 
Leon and Mary marrying at such advanced ages for each of them is interesting, and certainly is ending bachelorhood at age 98 years young!  They are doing well and Mr. Leblanc has agreed to begin work on a new model soprano clarinet, the LL100 for his 100th year.
Kindest personal regards.
Cordially yours,
 
Vito Pascucci

Great first person info! Much appreciated! I know this is highly subjective, but if you had to pick one French saxophone manufacturer other than Selmer that you feel produced the best product back in the day (let's say the 1950's and 60's), which one would it be? By best I mean which product would you give the highest marks to using the criteria by which most players judge a sax (overall quality of sound, response, keywork, action, ergonomics, etc.) Since there seems to be a consensus that the Selmer Mark VI represented the highest evolution of the French saxophone from a quality standpoint, which of the smaller companies that you mentioned made a product that you feel was almost as good, or even on par with, the Selmer Mark VI?

[honkytone]

Since there seems to be a consensus that the Selmer Mark VI represented the highest evolution of the French saxophone from a quality standpoint, which of the smaller companies that you mentioned made a product that you feel was almost as good, or even on par with, the Selmer Mark VI?

Having owned a handful of vintage Selmers, SMLs, Beaugniers, and one Noblet, without question I would hands-down pick SML as the closest to--and maybe even on a par with--Selmer in overall quality. SMLs and Selmers are different instruments, with different characteristics, but you get the same hefty feeling holding them in your hands. The Selmer keywork is the modern paradigm, but I think SML took the non-balanced action keywork to its pinnacle...to the point where I don't really prefer one over the other. In fact, sometimes the SML keywork feels simpler and quicker to me.

[bfoster64]

Hey folks, right on par with Selmer and SML in build quality and engineering is Buffet.

I've played all three tenors, as well as a nice early Noblet tenor from the best era for Noblets. The Noblet sounded really good but the intonation was not great and the action was less refined than these other brands. The SML is a unique design that has its plusses and minuses. It didn't seem to like my high baffled mpc, for instance, whereas my Buffet SDA is very mouthpiece friendly. In my experience the Buffet sounds almost as good as the Selmer Mark VI and has better intonation.

After playing lots of French tenors, I'm very satisfied with my Buffet.

I have not played a Beugnier or Pierret, but I have heard good things about them. I played a Dolnet tenor and I own a Dolnet bari. Dolnets sound more like America-made horns than French horns, so they almost belong in another category.

[Swingtone]

Hey folks, right on par with Selmer and SML in build quality and engineering is Buffet.

I've played all three tenors, as well as a nice early Noblet tenor from the best era for Noblets. The Noblet sounded really good but the intonation was not great and the action was less refined than these other brands. The SML is a unique design that has its plusses and minuses. It didn't seem to like my high baffled mpc, for instance, whereas my Buffet SDA is very mouthpiece friendly. In my experience the Buffet sounds almost as good as the Selmer Mark VI and has better intonation.

After playing lots of French tenors, I'm very satisfied with my Buffet.

I have not played a Beugnier or Pierret, but I have heard good things about them. I played a Dolnet tenor and I own a Dolnet bari. Dolnets sound more like America-made horns than French horns, so they almost belong in another category.

Thanks, bfoster

Actually I was just playing dumb a la Lt. Columbo. I just thought this nice French gentleman might be able to offer some real insight on this subject, from the standpoint of someone who knew the makers and saw the production facilities first-hand, and didn't just play the horns like the rest of us.

I actually owned a Buffet SDA tenor for a time before deciding I didn't like the ergos, and I currently own a King Marigaux tenor (same horn as the SML Gold Medal). I actually prefer most everything about the SML over the Buffet, and that's why I still have it. The LH cluster on the Buffet was way to high for my larger-than-average hands (either that or the LH thumbrest was too low--perhaps that's more accurate). But at any rate, I had to stick my left wrist out toward the ceiling at an uncomfortable angle in order to hit low C#. Also, this awkward position did not afford me much leverage to hit that particular note, since the mechanism of the spatula was fairly tight, even moreso than a 30's Series I Aristocrat I used to own, which was amazingly fluid in this dept.--must have been the Norton's ;).

Anyway, the SML is better in every respect IMHO, especially from the standpoint of tone--how rich! It can take a lot more than the Buffet, which seemed to want to sulk if you tried pushing it too hard. This is with a Morgan Jazz L mouthpiece, mind you. The middle D also did not speak easily on the SDA, but it's clear as a bell on the SML. If anything, I think the action on the SDA may have been slightly faster than the SML, but I wasn't able to do an A/B.

The SML just has a lot of power to spare, which puts it more on par with the Mark VI, based on my limited experience with those (have test played some pretty choice models at a major vintage dealer--one of which, a gold-plated 5-digit, was almost 1/4 of my annual salary!)

[bfoster64]

The Morgan Jazz L is probably an excellent match for the SML, and I'd expect the intonation to be very good with that setup. As I said, the Buffet performs extremely well with high baffled pieces, and the intonation remains near-perfect. It's better than almost any horn I've played, even with my DV. I find the Buffet SDA ergos extremely comfortable, and my hands are medium sized. The spatula keys on my tenor are well set up, almost as easy-playing as the keys on my modern-day B&S tenor. I used to wish the SDA would take more air, and I've seen the "sulk" comment on Stephen Howard's website. But by a stroke of luck I ended up trying a Barone neck on the Buffet and any misgivings I had about the horn immediately went away. With the Barone neck, the dynamic range is truly impressive and there seems to be no limit to the projection and presence of the sound. There are a few horns I would like to add to my collection, and SML is one of them. In the meantime, I will sing the praises of the Buffet SDA because I think they are underappreciated and a great alternative to a $4K Selmer or $2-3K SML for someone wanting the French sound.

[Swingtone]

The Morgan Jazz L is probably an excellent match for the SML, and I'd expect the intonation to be very good with that setup. As I said, the Buffet performs extremely well with high baffled pieces, and the intonation remains near-perfect. It's better than almost any horn I've played, even with my DV. I find the Buffet SDA ergos extremely comfortable, and my hands are medium sized. The spatula keys on my tenor are well set up, almost as easy-playing as the keys on my modern-day B&S tenor. I used to wish the SDA would take more air, and I've seen the "sulk" comment on Stephen Howard's website. But by a stroke of luck I ended up trying a Barone neck on the Buffet and any misgivings I had about the horn immediately went away. With the Barone neck, the dynamic range is truly impressive and there seems to be no limit to the projection and presence of the sound. There are a few horns I would like to add to my collection, and SML is one of them. In the meantime, I will sing the praises of the Buffet SDA because I think they are underappreciated and a great alternative to a $4K Selmer or $2-3K SML for someone wanting the French sound.

You're right about the Morgan--it's spot-on up and down the horn. I mean, the meter on the Korg doesn't hardly quiver at the 0 mark. That's how great the intonation is on these SML's (and like you said, the Morgan ain't too shabby either). Not bad for a hand-made horn made in 1967. As far as the setup on my SDA, I think it should have been optimal since I purchased it from Kritavi, and it was set up by no less than Les Arbuckle, who said it was one of the best SDA's he had ever played (actually talked to him on the phone in Boston). Maybe I just didn't have the right mouthpiece for it. At the time, I was using a stock Link Tone Edge 7, which I used to like until I tried the Morgan. Man does that Link sound stuffy now in comparison.

Did you ever think about trying to find an early KM like mine? With a 20,xxx serial, mine was one of the first ones made for King, according to the serial charts. I acquired it from the estate of a deceased pro, who, according to a former student, used it as his main tenor even though he also owned an early Mark VI. This horn was less than the 2-3K you often see the Gold Medal's going for, and the rumor that they're somehow not as good as the Gold Medal is pure poppycock. I've already told you about the sound and intonation, and it also has all but two of the 22 legendary special SML features. They seem to pop up on ebay and Sarge's site from time to time. But I admit, Sarge usually asks a pretty penny for them, and why not, when he can hardly keep them in stock. If I were you I'd go the ebay route since I think it would be a fair bet to say that SML may have never built a bad horn.

[Jazzbrass]

From
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?p=453542#post453542 :


Good I will try to be clear, today here are what I think:

1 In 1906 L. working Pierret ex of Mons, Millereau (repurchased in 1931 by Selmer) and Besson create its company which will be repurchased by Selmer in 1950 but guard the patents with its name. It will continue to make manufacture under its name in Mantes La Jolie (close to Paris) by various neighbors and friends (Selmer, Beaugnier…) and inter alia various stencil key sets “stencils” like the fact so well Couesnon.

2 Selmer which has its factory with Mantes is at the time a mark less famous than Pierret and no doubt, in my spirit, that Selmer arranges its 22 then studies its MK6 in the shade of Pierret which it also manufactures under the benevolent eye of L. Pierret which monitors also its stencil key sets manufactured by Beaugnier in the factory of at side. This until 1970 dates to which the MK6 confirmed its position on the market. In 1930 Selmer repurchased part of Sax, its stencil key sets, its material, the street Myrha or it installed seat and shop. It leaves with A.E. Sax the mark “Lyrist” which will be manufactured in Mantes by Selmer or Beaugnier until 1950 when A.E.Sax gives up its rights. (one curiously observes an identical garland on Beaugnier and Lyrist)

3 In 1927 Beaugnier joins Siour successor of Vault melts his company located 118 data bases Voltaire in Paris then with Mantes the City. For lack of a rigorous management in spite of a higher quality Beaugnier ceases its activity in 1967.
The factory is repurchased by Leblanc with the personnel and his production under its mark and its stencil key sets until 1973 will continue. Meanwhile Leblanc with open with Vito Pascucci a factory with Kenoska. Beaugnier is then associated Dolnet which takes it again personnel Lelanc and the French factory until 1986. Beaugnier will thus make sax under the marks Vito, Leblanc, Noblet, Martin and even some Yanagisawa without to count famous “the stencil key sets”
After its repurchase by Steinway in 2004, the loop is buckled Leblanc Inc. includes/understands maintaining the marks: Armstrong, Artley, Bach, Benge, Conn, King, Holton, Martin, Selmer the USA, Selmer Paris, Leblanc, Vito, Yanagisawa, PRIMA Sankyo, Scherl and Roth, Lewis, Glassel, Musser and Ludwig it is it that one calls the concentration capital intensive “World Company”

4 As opposed to what I had written SML did not succumb to the charms of Leblanc. Strasser Marigaux and Lemaire were founded in 1934 by three associated: Charles Strasser, a businessman who was born in Switzerland; Marigaux, a manufacturer of instrument which came from Dresser-Cramp, where his/her father was “a Master craftsman” and Lemaire. After the death of Lemaire, the company became “Strasser-Marigaux” Marigaux died in beginning of the Seventies, leaving Strasser single owner of the company. Strasser then sold with SML (They continue to employ these initial) with a company Strasser-Marigaux SA.
SML started to make saxophones when the company was founded two years before Selmer. They presented a saxophone of revolutionary action. SML ceased the production of the saxes in 1982; when, the company made 400 saxes per year. It also sold stencil key sets to King, under the name “King Marigaux. ” A spokesman of company said that SML had stopped to make saxophones because “Us let us not can do better than Selmer “

But all that is only calculations that you will be able to demolish with blow massive arguments….

[Hans Pluijms]

Hallo, joining this forum for the first time i would like to have more information about my ´new`baryton sax. it is a beaugnier
, artistique with the number 101
Who can give me some information?

[Jazzbrass]

Hallo, joining this forum for the first time i would like to have more information about my ´new`baryton sax. it is a beaugnier
, artistique with the number 101
Who can give me some information?

It can be possible if you send a complete illustrated report to me with mjean2@mac.com