Pre-Chu / Chu differences?

[morgan]

Other than the nailfile G# is there ANY difference between the pre-Chu New Wonders and the Chu New Wonders? I seem to remember Gayle telling me something about a different palm key shape, but I have here a 139k (which is a very late pre-chu) and a Chu tenor - - palm keys look identical. Perhaps my 139 is a transitional pre?

[Lee]

morgan, there is 23 posts in the archive, under the Conn message area, topic: Pre Chu Vs Chu Nov 23rd 4:04 PM

I hope this gets you on the way.

lee

[morgan]

Hmmm.

Some suggestion about bell key repositioning - - not true on mine.

Some general acknowledgment that every now and then between 44k and 200k they'd tweak something.

Clear enough.

[Hornlip]

I've got a 110xxx ('23-'24) alto handy. The "paddle" on the palm E-flat is small and rounded, unlike the more modern palm E-flat on my late 20's 234xxx Chu. Further, the palm D key has a post soldered onto the body underneath to stop the key from opening up too much, whereas on the Chu palm D there's a cork-buffered ledge at the bottom of the key to stop it. The palm keys on the Chu seem to rise up a little farther off the horn than the Pre-Chu, especially the palm D.

The Pre-Chu octave thumb key is a pearl-shaped button, whereas on the Chu it's the upside-down "devil's head"-shaped button. Aside from being cross-hatched, the G# on the Chu is also flatter, wider and longer than the Pre-Chu G#.

Those are the most obvious differences I see.

[morgan]

Mine are tenors - 139k and 168k
The octave thumb key is the upside-down "devil's head" on both my Pre-chu and chu.
The "paddle" on the palm E-flat is small and rounded on both.
The palm D key has a post soldered onto the body underneath on both.
Palm key spatulas rise to same height, and the D is noticeably low on both.

Inference:
every now and then between 44k and 240k they'd tweak something, but there was not a significant evolutionary leap at the moment they moved from "pre-nailfile" to "nailfile".

[bel]

Is there any difference in a neck? Are those of a micro tuner with nothing serect ?

[swapsax]

The small "spoon" Eb palm changes
DURING the actual Chu run around
175K. At that point, a longer modern palm key is substituted.
The very early preChu's(gezundheit!) have a wider
spacing in the right hand and are
suitable only for those who can play catcher sans mit. Not
sure where this changes to a normal
spacing--80K maybe(?) Around
205K, a curved high E touch is added and that's about it for keywork changes through the end of
the run around 262K. All this
refers to tenor because who cares
about Chu altos? (r-r-r)

[swapsax]

...maybe that curved E comes in around 220K--that seems to ring
more of a bell...

[Hornlip]

Sez my Chu Alto to Swapsax: Blattt!! :P

[swapsax]

I heard that--a low Bb?

[Hornlip]

Low A, with the bell under my knee & a frog in the throat!

[CONN-hunter]

Hi!! and what would you say people about the "sound-difference" between a Pre-CHU and a CHU Modell???
I own a Pre-CHU, 64K !!! are both good in Sound or have you a favorite??

[Sax Hut]

Seems the thread here focused on palm keys. What about differences in necks, bore, metal gauge, general ergonomics, tuning, and -- as Conn hunter asked -- SOUND?

[swapsax]

See my post above for ALL keywork
differences--that covers ergonomics.
Who knows(?) on the metallurgy but
no apparent differences. Necks and
bore seem similar but I've never measured. The sound on
the pre's is as good if not even
better. Biggest playing Conns I've
had were pre's not actual Chu's.

[werkinsnake]

I agree with swapsax. The pre's are as good, OR BETTER than the chu's. Actually, I prefer the keywork of the pre's. I recently had my alto's keywork adjusted (new corks, and springs). The keywork is so tight now that it feels like a very well adjusted soprano. Playing throught the Omni-book has never been easier. 8)

[werkinsnake]

I agree with swapsax. The pre's are as good, OR BETTER than the chu's. Actually, I prefer the keywork of the pre's. I recently had my alto's keywork adjusted (new corks, and springs). The keywork is so tight now that it feels like a very well adjusted soprano. Playing throught the Omni-book has never been easier. 8)

[mutha potamus]

One thing I've noticed between the chus & pre-chus I've owned or played is that the keywork metal of the pre-chus tend to be a tad bit weaker, allowing the horn to fall out of regulation easier.

[Sax Hut]

I'd venture the relocation of the body octave vent (on tenors) about 5 cm lower than its position on (roughly) pre-80xxx New Wonders and Wonders (and maybe even Inventions) is about the only acoustically noteworthy change in the evolution to the Chu.

Some side-key and chromatic F# tonehole resizing and relocation is also evident, but the mainstack toneholes and neck/body/bow/bell dimensions seem so close that one might conclude a 1915 Invention tenor should sound very similar if not identical to a Chu through most of its range (2nd register D to G# should be intonationally different, though, right?). Other things being equal, and discounting all the ergonomic, cosmetic, brass gauge, and rolled/unrolled tonehole variations....

[luispa]

I have three Conn altos, 1 Chu and 2 pre-chu. The most importtant difference I see is the G pad, the pre-chus use two pads for the G and the Chu use only one (like all modern saxophones). I don't know how this can influence the sound.

[Sax Hut]

I haven't had any contact with Conn altos, so this was news to me. I took a look at a pic and now see what you mean, luispa. Have you noticed any significant difference in sound or response compared to the Chu?

[bruce bailey]

2 G pads??? All of the ones I have had are normal.

[luispa]

Maybe they changed this on the later pre-chus. Those are the saxophones I have:

Serial #88XXX
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3768083005&ssPage Name=STRK:MEWN:IT
The pictures are not so good.

Serial #59XXX
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3769358281&ssPage Name=STRK:MEWN:IT
Better pictures. You may see that clearly.

A later Pre-Chu:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3781320440

I don't know exactly when they changed this. Surely between #88XXX and #134XXX

About the sound, the silverplated pre-chu (#88XXX) has a darker sound than my other Chu (original nickelplated, #176XXX), it seems to be close to the Buescher True Tone in sound terms. The only significant difference is that the Chu has metal resonators and the silverplated Pre-Chu has plastic resonators.

I could try to record some scales if this help you.

Regards,

Luis Pablo

[bruce bailey]

Now I know which double G you mean. I think that since there was no micro tuner, it was the model made before 1920. How does this horn play compared to the single G model?

[luispa]

This saxophone is one of the three I have and has "double G" and microtuner.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3768083005&ssPage Name=STRK:MEWN:IT