Old, Loud, Jazzy Clarinets -- What Makes & Models?

[Hornlip]

Say I was interested in clarinet as played by Woody Herman, Artie Shaw & other big-band (& hot jazz) era clarinetists. What did they play?

I've heard there were a couple of Conn models especially popular in the big bands -- 40B or something like that. Anybody know?

[RS]

Maybe a Selmer Centered Tone.

[John Scorgie]

Hornlip --

The top model of old Conn clarinet for big band players such as Artie Shaw (and for some classical clarinetists as well) was the 444. The similar but lower priced model was the 424. The serial #s on these horns will begin with 444.. or 424... Both were made out of wood. (Many of the old Conns were ebonite).

A nice 444 will probably run $500. Some dealers are asking $1000 or more. A nice 424 will be $200 -- $400. Understand that most old vintage Conns on the market are mistreated, badly repaired, butchered and generally just worn out. (About 1/3 of my old Conns are nice horns, the other 2/3 are parts horns)

If you want to experience what a big bore clarinet plays like but don't want to spend a lot of money, just pick up an older Bundy Resonite in
good shape, preferably one which has been professionally adjusted. Use a fairly open mpce such as a Vandoren B45 or equivalent with a medium soft or medium reed.

If you then find that you like the big bore clarinets, you can shop around for a nice old Conn or Selmer at your leisure.

[Dave Dolson]

I have an old hard-rubber Conn Albert clarinet (and others, too), but it doesn't have the punch of my newer Buffet RC Prestige. I've played a bunch of top-o'-the-line Boehm clarinets and none had the punch of my Buffet.

I suspect that the powerful sound of the older jazzers (Goodman, Shaw, and even earlier than that with Bechet and Dodds and Noone) comes from the players and not the particular instrument they played. DAVE

[paulwl]

I've yet to see an actual Conn endorsement by Shaw except for the Connstellation 280N. It came out in 1953 and he quit playing entirely in '54. (Cause and effect??? :? )

The Conn 4xxN series are great playing clarinets - but to my ear, they're not quite as refined in tone as their Selmer contemporaries. Lots of volume and bite, highly expressive, but a little something lacking on the ppp end of the spectrum. Like drinking a ballsy California Cab - all tastebuds but little "nose" - instead of a smoky and highly complex Bordeaux. [/i]

[Hornlip]

Thanks for the replies, folks.

So would a contemporary Selmer have been the aforementioned "Centered-Tone"?

[knighttrain]

The Leblanc Noblet & Pete Fountain models have larger diameter bores if you can't locate vintage Conns in good shape.

[retread]

John Butler, a Houston-area clarinet tech, had a Conn 424 and a Selmer Balanced Tone (or maybe Centered Tone) for sale last time I looked. As I recall both were in the $550-$600 range. John does excellent work--I bought a LeBlanc from him a few months ago and am very pleased. His prices are more reasonable than most, and you can rely on his descriptions. His horns are in excellent condition and very well set up. You can get to his web site from the sponsor area of woodwind.org.

PS--he also had a good-looking Pan American tenor that looks like a 10M in the same price range.

[katysax]

The Centered Tone Models were made in the 50s. They do have a slightly brighter sound than the current generation of clarinets. I have one and it doesn't seem to offer any more "cut" through instruments than the new clarinets do. I think the larger bore tends to contribute to the instrument being a bit freer blowing.

I have several clarinets and I prefer to play instruments with the optional Ab/Eb key on the left hand because I play a lot of bass clarinet and it's hard enough to remember the different fingerings. My Centered Tone is beautiful - looks like a new instrument. All the pads are new (recent professional overhaul). If you are looking for one I might sell mine send me an email - slkatz@ix.netcom.com

[paulwl]

Hornlip: So would a contemporary Selmer have been the aforementioned "Centered-Tone"?

The 4xxNs were made from the early 1930s into the late 40s. So their Selmer contemporaries would have been the Balanced-Tone and (appropriately enough) N series. (B-Ts are what I mostly play, with a 446N for CONNtrast.)

[Bootman]

I'm with Dave Dolson here, the Buffet RC has the biggest, strongest sound of any clarinet I have played. It competes very nicely with loud trumpet players. It is twice as loud as the 30's selmer I have here.

I have a Conn alto clarinet of the wooden make that is a fantastic clarinet too, I would love to get hold of one of these older Conn clarinets too.

[silversax]

Is the Buffet RC the same model as the Buffet Prestige RC?

[Dave Dolson]

Silversax: I don't know. I bought mine new at Howarth's in London in 1985. Things may have changed since I bought mine (as does most everything). DAVE

[Bootman]

My RC was bought from a classical player who had it made for them from a hand selected piece of wood in the Factory in Paris. All I know is that I played it and knew instantly that this was the clarinet for me. My RC is also from around 1985 and has been meticulously cared for.

As for the Prestige being the same as the older RC, the answer is I think so but I'm not 100% certain. I can't distinguish any obvious physical differences.

[Dave Dolson]

I had a similar experience with my RC Prestige as did Bootman. I first went to the Selmer headquarters office in Paris and met a man with the last name Selmer (forgive me about the first name - it was a long time ago and besides he didn't speak much English and I spoke no French). Anyway, we understood each other enough for me to test a whole bunch of clarinets. None jumped out at me.

Then, I was in London on the same vacation trip and went tn Howarth's. There I played a bunch of clarinets (B&H. Selmer, Buffet, LeBlanc, and others). This particular RC Pretsige was head and shoulders above all the rest. A real keeper, if you will. DAVE

[paulwl]

Another thing to look into for jazz is a good older metal clarinet. There are a lot of worthless old candlesticks out there, but there were also some fine pro models made until 1940 or so. Conn (1pc or 5pc), King, Bettoney and of course Selmer Paris all made good ones. Not much of a user base in jazz other than Lester Young and Bob Ackerman.

I myself on occasion play a Conn 524N (fantastic horn, great intonation & feel, its only flaw an irredeemably wheezy throat G) - and an "Armored" Conn (brass cladding over rubber, looks like a double-wall or wood horn). The "ring" and penetrating tone of these clarinets is incredible - the Armored in particular can cut thru just about anything.

[Bob M]

Paul - Thanks for bringing up metal clarinets here. I spent the weekend listening to The Complete Lester Young on Verve and there are several cuts of him playing clarinet. There is a picture in the booklet of Pres playing a metal clarinet.

Does anyone have suggestions for what to look for in buying one of these and setting it up?

[Hornlip]

Wow, I'm glad I started this post -- lots of great info here. 8)

I'm not immediately in the clarinet market, but I'll be looking to pick up one sooner than later. I figured I would look for an old one, in line with my vintage instrument loving-ways -- but I know zilch about old clarinets. Much harder to find info on than old saxes, & I like to thoroughly investigate before I buy. If they're anything like old saxes, the more you know about 'em, the better a deal you can find!!

[Fred]

There's a couple of other clarinets that haven't been mentioned yet that probably should be. The Selmer Series 9 (not 9*) is well regarded as a big bore clarinet, and the Leblanc LL is really a sleeper in that regard. In metal clarinets, the Silver King has a huge sound.

As with many instruments, a play test is always preferable to just a reputation. Many of the older Selmer series - without a fancy name like "Centered Tone" are great instruments. One thing to keep in mind though - intonation on these older instruments is usually not up to par with today's clarinets (today's good ones). Not necessarily terrible, just not as good as it could be. So if you find a modern Buffet or Leblanc that sounds the way you want it to, it may make your life easier.

[Roger Aldridge]

The question regarding the clarinets that were used by guys like Goodman, Shaw, etc brings a related question to my mind.

A large percentage of a clarinet's performance characteristics comes from the mouthpiece. Thus, I'm curious about the types of clarinet mouthpieces that were used by the top jazz players during the 30's and early 40's and whether they are different in some respects from the pieces that are commonly used today.

It's my understanding that Goodman used a Gustave Langenus mouthpiece. Does anyone know what Shaw used?

I'm not meaning to get off-topic. I see this as going hand-in-hand with the question concerning the types of clarinets.

Thanks!

[super20dan]

i am fortunate enough to own a paris selmer metal and it is indeed a loud & projecting clarinet. there is however a very loud clarinet that is still pretty common on ebay thats the loudest clarinet i ever played. its called the pruefer silvertroat. its made of hard rubber and has a coin silver liner in the bore. its bore size is also larger than the leblanc pete fountain .only the bousey& hawlks imperial has a larger bore. this is one hot rod clarinet! i own 2 .paid 35$ for one ,40$ for the second.also they have leather pads

[Frank D]

super20dan, seeing as you are a King afficionado, do you/have you ever played a Silver King metal clarinet? I picked up one for cheap off of eBay awhile back, and wish my clarinet chops were in better shape to do it justice. Seems to be a real wailin' (in a good sense) horn.

Also, is your metal Selmer segmented like a wood clarinet, or just your basic body and barrel like most metals? I saw a 4 segment metal Selmer on eBay once, and it sold for a fortune!

Don't know why I'm so fascinated with metal clarinets, always thought they were junk in high school.

[Dave Dolson]

Frank D: I have a Silver King, in the original case and with two necks (440 and 443). I had it overhauled years ago, but it plays kinda stuffy for my tastes. I much prefer my Buffets. Still, the Silver King is a nice piece of work, alright. It is NOT the regular metal clarinet we've all seen before. DAVE

[super20dan]

no frank i havnt yet had the honnor of playing a silver king. some day i will add one to my collection . my selmer metal sadly isnt the one that breaks apart in 4 peices but does come apart at the middle and has articulated g#. it sounds just like a wood clarinet and is head & shoulders better than my metal nodlet. it gets a lot of use as weather is always extreme here in fla. my wood clarinets hate a.c

[MojoBari]

I got here late. My LeBlanc Series II (circa 1940's) has a large bore too.

[Frank D]

Dave - I kind of felt the Silver King was stuffy, too, but didn't feel qualified to make that judgement since I play so little (no) clarinet these days.

super20dan - what part of FL do you live in? I just found out I'm moving to Boca in June. I'd sure like to get the lowdown on the S. FL music scene.

[super20dan]

i am in north fla. so i cant help w/south fla music scene

[Dave Dolson]

Frank D: I spent last weekend playing in Phoenix (Arizona Calssic Jazz Society All Star Band and other gigs - Razzleberry's was one). I don't play that much clarinet either, but of the ones I own and the ones I've tested, the Silver King is stuffy. I kinda thought it might have been the overhaul job I received (it later turned out that others had complained about the tech who did mine - YEARS ago). Other than it's stuffiness, the horn is solid as a rock - not like most other metal clarinets I've seen (cheap student-level tin). DAVE

[Tim Price]

Guys- try PENZUL-MUELLER.TheBrillante model will frost ya.

They are old, LOUD and jazzy.I had one and sold it to my English bro. Tony Coe. I wish I would bump into some others like that.
Look for them :idea:

[Pete N]

Re: Pruefer Silver Throat
I recently picked up one of these but can't get it to play in tune. It's so sharp that I need to pull the barrel out a long, long way and the intonation is impossible as a result. Could this be a mouthpiece/bore compatibility problem? What do any other silver throat users use as a mouthpiece?

[super20dan]

most likely the barrell that came with your silver throat is to short. they are suppossed to use a 66m barrell. this clarinet needs a long barell to work right. i have no tunning issues w/ mine. use any mpc you like on these horns . i use a brillhart tonalin for big band , a larry combs3 for german band and a rico royal metalite for extreme playing. this is one bad *** clarinet :twisted:

[Pete N]

It is a long barrel, stamped "Pruefer", so I'm assuming it's the original. Both my Selmer C85 and LC1 play very sharp. The barrel appears to be 68mm. I've played clarinet for 20 years so I don't think it's me either. My tech suggested that from the tone hole placement it might have been deliberately made to play sharp for students with no embouchure, but this seemed a bit unlikely to me as the rest of the clarinet seems to be of good quality. Any other suggestions very welcome, as I like the instrument otherwise. Did the design change at all over time? Mine is serial number 45884.

Thanks.

[Fred]

Pete, do the pad heights look too high? That could make it go way sharp.

[Pete N]

Pad heights look pretty standard too, unfortunately, in comparison with the other clarinet I have here.

[Hornlip]

Well, on a eBay-induced whim I just sprung for a "Gladiator" silver clarinet by H.N White -- makers, of course, of "King" instruments.

Don't know how it will compare, but Hopefully it'll bear up to the superior reputation claimed by Dave Dolson for the full-fledged "King" metal clarinets. In any case, I got it el cheapo so I won't be set back too badly if things turn out sour!!

[Hornlip]

Well, on a eBay-induced whim I just sprung for a "Gladiator" silver clarinet by H.N White -- makers, of course, of "King" instruments.

Cleaned it up and sold it. It needed a bunch of work -- if I'm going to grab a metal one, I'll look for one that works. I did make $24 off the whole transaction, though!! I've noticed, in general, that their have been a lot of the higher-quality metal clarinets up on eBay, by Selmer, Conn, etc.

Meanwhile, eBay whims keep coming. I sprung for a 424N that looked like it was in good shape, and it is. No cracks, little wear, plays pretty well, though I'm sure it needs a tune-up. Of course, my clarinet embouchure is so pathetic, I'm not getting close to really working the thing out -- but I like what I'm hearing.

[Eddie McLean]

Three years ago Roger Aldridge asked the question "what MPC Goodman & Shaw used". Like the rest of us they changed, but I have heard Benny used a HS** on his Selmer BT & Artie used a Selmer S on his Conn 444N. The 'S' is also known as the doublers facing, close and short 45/669 though I have not heard of him playing sax.
I play big bore instruments, B&H regent, Emperor & 926 Imperial, all .593" bore also have used a pre war Selmer Sterling metal for marching bands, sounded like wood but it liked an open .60/0M Larsen before it would speak. Great action but stumpy keys. A Buffet SM6 from 1939 with a .600"+ bore. Nice sound and keywork but poor intonation. My latest find is The Czechoslovak Amati/Corton a cheap east European horn with a very large bore.1960's-70's Good wood & leaning towards the pro design & construction.Ser.No.008552. A great jazz horn, dirt cheap on ebay, though later versions are of smaller bore and cheaper construction with no tenon rings.

[paulwl]

Three years ago Roger Aldridge asked the question "what MPC Goodman & Shaw used". Like the rest of us they changed, but I have heard Benny used a HS** on his Selmer BT & Artie used a Selmer S on his Conn 444N. The 'S' is also known as the doublers facing, close and short 45/669 though I have not heard of him playing sax.Both Goodman and Shaw were very competent lead altoists until starting their own bands.

[Bootman]

I just tried a series of Festivals, these are incredible clarinets and well worth checking out.

[Eddie McLean]

Paulwl,
Thanks for the info. I wonder if Goodman & Shaw made any recordings on saxophone

[paulwl]

Hundreds I'm sure – but almost all anonymous dance orchestra stuff. The verifiable BG alto solos might number a few dozen 8-bar passages, plus one semi-famous chorus on a 1928 side called Blue (http://redhotjazz.com/songs/goodman/blue.ram). (That's BG playing bari in the melody chorus, too.)

As far as Shaw – no one knows, and he frankly didn't care.

The alto was already somewhat "typed" as a section lead voice in commercial music. After a while it was mostly Black players who kept it alive as a jazz horn.

[Eddie McLean]

Paulwl,
A gem of a solo from a nineteen year old BG on Blue. Obviously a future star. Thanks for that.

[Dave Dolson]

I think the whole name of "Blue" is BLUE (AND BROKEN HEARTED), a great melody . . . the band I play with does it. A nice modern (age, not style) recording was by the HOT ANTIC JAZZ BAND of Nimes, France.

Thanks for that link, Paul. DAVE

[dblrbar]

Paulwl,
Thanks for the info. I wonder if Goodman & Shaw made any recordings on saxophone
Somewhere, in our domestic mess, I have a recording (78 rpm) that my Dad made years ago of BG playing tenor on "Georgia on My Mind" It's one of those shelac on aluminun things on which Dad wrote the following: "Krupa at the Meadowbrook...Gooodman on tenor". I remember listening to it 35 years ago and thinking...not bad. I'll have to dig it out

[paulwl]

I know I heard that on vinyl years ago. He sounded like just what he had been, a mid '30s era sax player, somewhat out of practice.

BG played 4th tenor on the Blue Columbia record Take My Word (1934). This was the first session by the full time band, but they only had a 3 piece reed section, and Benny Carter's original tune had such intricate sax writing that it didn't make sense to leave out the 4th part.

BG also played tenor on a "swapping instruments" gag with the band on some CBS show or another circa 1937. Raymond Scott's 5tet was a CBS feature at that time, so they played Powerhouse as the 5tet would have done. BG and Art Rollini actually traded horns, Art playing clarinet. Not bad! This was out in the vinyl era as well.

[Gary622]

On the topic of current or near-current horns that might be optimized for jazz - I know nothing about it (I'm not even sure it exists) but didn't Buffet or Leblanc make an Eddie Daniels signature model?

(suddenly occurs to Gary that he can Google it)

http://www.gleblanc.com/bell/winter2003/storys/insearch.cfm

[paulwl]

What a revealing article about Eddie (thank God for dysfunctional families), the state of present day clarineting (manic classical perfectionism), and music marketing (a word description of the all new key layout, but no pictures, because people might rip them off.)

[Gary622]

Yes, it was interesting, wadn't it? I didn't read in detail about clarinet perfectionism, but I've lived it. The ICA Clarinetfest is about 2.5 hours from my front door this year, I've never been, and as a (community) orchestra clarinetist and sometime teacher I suppose I ought to go. >sigh<

[stevesklar]

anyone ever come across a Buescher True Tone clarinet?

I know the Buescher 400s were Selmer USA Signet stencils.

This TT clarinet the bore measured at .595". The keywork looked like the old Selmer Paris M/N series keywork - gonna have to borrow a customers' M series clarinets to double check but it has all the same similarities.

it's in the middle of an overhaul right now but i'm really curious how it sounds.

[Roger Aldridge]

It seems to me that an underlying premise of this thread is that we need to play louder and louder in order to keep up with the other guys in the band. This bothers me....especially with the clarinet.

I'm a big fan of a DARK, fat clarinet sound. While I strive to have enough volume & projection to have my clarinet heard in a big band; for me, my sound comes first. I've tried a number of more open jazz clarinet mouthpieces and didn't like their tonal qualities. I've also gone in the other direction and tried more hard-core classical mouthpieces. After all, think of the projection a clarinetist needs in an orchestra. After all of my trials, I found myself being most comfortable with a Morgan RM28 (1.28 mm). And, in trying various clarinets I feel most at home with a vintage Couesnon Monopole (.580 bore) that crossed my path last year. I really love it's sweet dark sound.

Having said all of that, there are times when it seems to me that it would be good to have more clarinet volume in my big band. BUT, I really like the dark sound of my set up. Therefore, it seems to me that there are three options to this situation: 1.) Use a different clarinet set up or 2.) Mike the clarinet or 3.) The band adjusts its dynamics for clarinet charts.

It seems to me that if options 2 or 3 are used then the notion of needing an ever-louder clarinet takes on less importance.

Along these lines, I remember an article by Gerry Mulligan that was in Downbeat many years ago. He talked about hearing two contrasting examples of big band dynamics. One was the Claude Thornhill band and the other was Stan Kenton. He described the Kenton band as blowing so hard that the band's sound dropped part-way in the hall and all he could hear in the balcony was the sound of air going through the trumpets. On the other hand, he described the Thornhill band as starting softly and swelling into this absolutely gorgeous sound.

The signature sound of the Thornhill band was its clarinets and 2 french horns. With the clarinet being so important to the Claude Thornhill band (with Gil Evans as chief arranger), it was necessary for the band to be careful with its dynamic levels and for the brass not to overblow the woodwinds. It's my feeling that this is a lesson that contemporary big bands need to remember -- louder is not necessarily better.

[bari-gadje]

In the Spring edition of Clarinet & Saxophone clarinetist Nigel Hinson tells us that he is now the owner of Artie Shaw's Gramercy 5 Buffet clarinet. The instrument came with a bespoke barrel by C Grano and Artie's mouthpiece which is an American Pedler. The serial number quoted is 42407 (c. 1949-1950 ) Artie also gave another Bb Buffet Gramercy 5 clarinet and a Selmer A clarinet to the Smithsonian Institute. Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that Artie had the chromatic Eb/Bb key removed and the hole filled. Hope this helps.

[paulwl]

Gerry Mulligan [...] described the Kenton band as blowing so hard that the band's sound dropped part-way in the hall and all he could hear in the balcony was the sound of air going through the trumpets.If true, this is one of the weirdest aural phenomena I ever read about. How could a sound be so loud it's inaudible?

Of course, Gerry told Saxophone Journal that Conn brass was so soft you could leave fingerprints in it by squeezing the bell. Maybe he was into putting on interviewers? 8-)

[stitch]

there is however a very loud clarinet that is still pretty common on ebay thats the loudest clarinet i ever played. its called the pruefer silvertroat. its made of hard rubber and has a coin silver liner in the bore. its bore size is also larger than the leblanc pete fountain .only the bousey& hawlks imperial has a larger bore. this is one hot rod clarinet! i own 2 .paid 35$ for one ,40$ for the second.also they have leather pads

Rather a late addition to an old thread, but with regard to the Pruefer Silver Throat, I have an Olds Ambassador that is a definite Silver Throat stencil - identical in every way and totally different from Olds DuraTone I also have.

[tictactux]

Rather a late addition to an old thread, but with regard to the Pruefer Silver Throat, I have an Olds Ambassador that is a definite Silver Throat stencil - identical in every way and totally different from Olds DuraTone I also have.
Funny you should mention that - I have a Martin La Monte with a metal-lined upper joint. (it's awating an overhaul but might be my future outdoor band instrument when I'm done with it).

[stitch]

I have a Martin La Monte with a metal-lined upper joint.

Cool. Do you think it's a Silver Throat stencil, or made by somebody else? Is it Martin Elkhart, Martin Freres, or some other Martin perhaps? AFAIK La Monte wasn't a US Martin name, but it seems to appear quite often on instruments of indeterminate origin. I think this may be the first example where it's actually a model name from a known manufacturer.

[super20dan]

i know some one who worked at the pruefer factor back in the 60,s and they did make stencils for a lot of other companys. i havnt heard of any other manufacter putting the metal liner inside their clarinets. my source told me the metal liner was for durability but it does increase the projection

[bari_sax_diva]

Funny you should mention that - I have a Martin La Monte with a metal-lined upper joint. (it's awating an overhaul but might be my future outdoor band instrument when I'm done with it).

You know, I just ran across a metal-lined clarinet a few weeks ago, but I've forgotten the name--it was some French make and it was the first I'd seen like that. It had a resonite body and keywork that felt like hell, but it sounded good enough that I was kicking around the idea of buying it for outdoor stuff. I should ask the owner (it's still for sale--he'd probably take $100 for it) what brand that thing is.

[tictactux]

Cool. Do you think it's a Silver Throat stencil, or made by somebody else? Is it Martin Elkhart, Martin Freres, or some other Martin perhaps? AFAIK La Monte wasn't a US Martin name, but it seems to appear quite often on instruments of indeterminate origin. I think this may be the first example where it's actually a model name from a known manufacturer.
It's a Martin-Frères-made-in-France instrument. I'm not sure whether the lining is actually silver (looks a bit dull to me, and AFAIK silver doesn't behave really well in the vicinity of hard rubber or Grenatex, which is what the mfgr claims to have used). But for $19.99 I won't complain... 8-)

[woodwindNYC]

Late to the party, I know, but wanted to chime in re: the Eddie Daniels/Leblanc thing...

There is no "Eddie Daniels" model Leblanc clarinet. Eddie currently plays the new Leblanc/Backun Legacy model, but for years before that, he played a straight-up Leblanc Concerto. He consulted on the design of the Concerto II, and he has his own mouthpiece and Rovner ligature named after him, but no clarinet :)

The Leblanc clarinet that was named after someone was the Pete Fountain model, which was a 18/7 system (artic. C#/G#, LH 3rd finger ring) big-bore LL model with gold keys. (opt. nickel or silver).

[super20dan]

bari sax diva -a few weeks ago when you were looking for a plastic outdoor clarinet -i almost was going to offer you one of my pruefer silver throats. you would have really liked it!

[Bootman]

The Loudest clarinet I ever played or owned was a 1920's Buffet with a round the body register key. The sound of this clarinet was simply exceptional, it played itself well almost.

[stitch]

I'm not sure whether the lining is actually silver (looks a bit dull to me, and AFAIK silver doesn't behave really well in the vicinity of hard rubber or Grenatex, which is what the mfgr claims to have used). But for $19.99 I won't complain... 8-)

I've seen it described as coin silver, not sure what that is exactly, but I'm guessing it's not exactly sterling ...

$19.99? I wouldn't be complaining either!

[super20dan]

its the same as nickle silver. i always wanted to try a pre r-13 buffet but havnt so far

[spartacus]

There is some history about these old clarinets attached to the monograph about Johnny Dodds that I posted a link in the doubling/clarinet section of this forum.

[tictactux]

I've seen it described as coin silver, not sure what that is exactly, but I'm guessing it's not exactly sterling ...
Not exactly, but quite close: 900 Silver (Sterling is 925) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millesimal_fineness)

[SOTSDO]

Very often, the type of metal being used on a musical instrument is referred to by very loose terms. Neither coin nor sterling silver are, by themselves, the best material to use for keywork. (The alloy is just too low in the other metals needed to stiffen it up; pure gold would have similar problems.)

A combination of a more robust base metal with plating is the best way to go iffen you wants the look of silver keys (or have problems with some base metals and skin chemistry).

One thing that you do not want is die cast metal for your keywork. While die cast (moulded in an injection machine) may look the same, it is not as flexible. (Chinese instruments have used die cast in the past, but some of the newer ones have gussied up a bit with overplating, so you can be fooled.)

My parents traded away my grandfather's Buffet Albert system bass clarinet (upon which I learned my early clarinet skills), this after comments about how I couldn't learn on "that old thing" for some off brand Czech or West German instrument with die cast keywork. Bummer...

[stitch]

Very often, the type of metal being used on a musical instrument is referred to by very loose terms.

I'm sure you're right. Maybe in this case coin means like the metal used to make 'silver' coins rather than the 90% pure that tictactux referred to. Super20dan's suggestion of nickel silver (which contains no silver) sounds about right to me, I'd guess the keys are made of the same.

[woodamand]

On the subject of metal clarinets, I recently got a Noblet (just repadded) that I love - and it certainly wasn't ragingly expensive. It plays and sounds just as nice but a wee different than my other Noblet, but the silver plating looks just great.

[bodeedeeboobop]

my mother played jazz in several bands in the 40's. she played several clarinets, her favorite was a Conn 444. i have been trying to downsize and found this in a hope chest. perfect condition. she is wood and has a crystal mouthpiece. i play but this takes a lot of wind. it puts out an amazingly huge sound. even the inside case is perfect. blue velvet. and the outside has some roughed corners, but not bad and the locks work fine. i pulled her out, stuck a reed on her, and she has a magnificent tone. she has great pads and pretty good corks. her low "f" pad is missing. she is kind of like sacred to me, but then i would rather that she be played and loved than sitting around, and my asthma causes me to use something with a smaller barrel. write to me at simplysmashink@aol.com if you are interested in hearing more about her.

robbie

[super20dan]

well at least you can still play. my asthma has gotten much worse over the years and i can no longer play

[bodeedeeboobop]

i have been much better since on advair. it is fabulous.

and put down that cigarette! sheesh!

smiles

robbie

btw, i am a lady. some would say an old blowhard or perhaps an old bag. this has been a kick reading the posts here.