Black Nickel vs. Nickel-silver SX90R

[FrasierCrane]

Hello,
I'm new to this forum and have a question. I got 2 Keilwerths at home at the moment for testing: the SX90R in black-nickel and the Sx90r Nickel-Silver. I like both horn, but I think that the black nickel one is a bit more stuffy and has a harder response than the NS one. I know that the sound of the NS is brighter and has more overtones than the black nickel horn, but it's not that what I mean but that the black nickel horn needs much more air and sounds a bit dumper and stuffy. Is this difference normal or could it be that the black nickel isn't prober adjusted (I got it by mail order).

The main problem is that I can have the black nickel horn for 2300 Euros (about 3000 $) because it has some minor dents (inside the bell, otherwise its brand-new, very late 122*** serial number, got it directly from Keilwerth) and the nickel silver horn costs 3100 Euros (4050 $). So i'm really not sure if the difference between the horns is worth the 900 € although I like the brighter sound of the NS a bit more. (It's not that I don't like the sound of the black nickel but I think the Ns is a bit more versatile).
I'm not so experienced in playing tenors (I played 3 years alto before) so I don't know what I can get out of these saxophones later.

Thanks, Markus

[EZ]

A slight leak can have a significant effect on the tone. Best to have a tech review both horns to ensure they are set up well before deciding if there is a difference or if you have a preference.

[JCBigler]

A slight leak can have a significant effect on the tone. Best to have a tech review both horns to ensure they are set up well before deciding if there is a difference or if you have a preference.
Ditto.

Check out my sig. I've got basically what you are playing--except that one's an alto, and one's a tenor (the clear lacquer on the alto is essentially the same as the black nickel, just that it hasn't been turned black, through whatever process they use to do so).

I that having been said, I love my NS tenor, and have really be debating whether I should sell my alto, and get a matching NS alto. As of yet, I like it the way it is. They are both well set up, and play exquisitely. I kind of tend to think that the nickel-silver on the alto, may make it too bright and powerful.


I like the brighter sound of the NS a bit more.
That's the most important piece of information right there. Assuming they are both set up properly, and you have the money to get whichever one you want, it all comes down to which one you like best. If that is because of sound, playability, looks, or the fact that no one else in your area has one, then so be it.

[mountainman]

Hello,
I'm new to this forum and have a question. I got 2 Keilwerths at home at the moment for testing: the SX90R in black-nickel and the Sx90r Nickel-Silver. I like both horn, but I think that the black nickel one is a bit more stuffy and has a harder response than the NS one. I know that the sound of the NS is brighter and has more overtones than the black nickel horn, but it's not that what I mean but that the black nickel horn needs much more air and sounds a bit dumper and stuffy. Is this difference normal or could it be that the black nickel isn't prober adjusted (I got it by mail order).

The main problem is that I can have the black nickel horn for 2300 Euros (about 3000 $) because it has some minor dents (inside the bell, otherwise its brand-new, very late 122*** serial number, got it directly from Keilwerth) and the nickel silver horn costs 3100 Euros (4050 $). So i'm really not sure if the difference between the horns is worth the 900 € although I like the brighter sound of the NS a bit more. (It's not that I don't like the sound of the black nickel but I think the Ns is a bit more versatile).
I'm not so experienced in playing tenors (I played 3 years alto before) so I don't know what I can get out of these saxophones later.

Thanks, Markus

I plyed the SX90R before purchasing the Shadow and liked it, but going back occasionally to the Black Nickel SX90R I agree with you. It certainly does not blow as easily nor sound as sweet. The Shadow is the easiest blowing horn I have ever played and to my ear is a cross between the 2. It has the dark lower end of rhe SX90R and is bright on the top end as a result of the Nickel -Silver. The top end can be tamed using a Link or similar mouthpiece.

Another point to consider is that Alto players switching to Tenor ( as do beginning players) need to further develop their air support in order to play the larger horn.

[Giganova]

Both horns should sound near identical. I suspect that the black nickel horn is not properly set-up.

[FrasierCrane]

Thank you all very much for your responses. I'll will go to a sax doc on Monday who to check them both.
But I have got another question right know. I examined the SN horn a moment ago and noticed that it's is very rusty inside the bell. I think this shouldn't be at a new saxophone. Probably it got used very often with using the pull-through. Maybe I can talk to the dealer to get it a bit cheaper than the original price.

[SoulMate]

Greetings FrasierCrane,

I own both horns you specify. There is indeed a difference, but not completely as you discribed it. The NS is indeed brighter sounding, no doubt. But they are both NOT stuffy, nor dull. Setting them up properly will reveal that.

Corrosion on a new horn? This sounds fishy! Ask your dealer about this. If it has been used before, it's not new, so get a deal on the price.

I use a very bright MPC on the black nickle, but the same MPC on the NS is absolutely horrible. Way to harsh. So trying to get the same tonal characteristics on the NS has lead me to use a darker MPC.
You can do alot with a proper MPC and reed combination. Focus on that, maybe you can save yourself some money.

Good luck!

SoulMate

[FrasierCrane]

Thanks for your advise Soulmate. I think I'll go with the blacknickel. Although I like the nickel silver a little bit more, I don't think it's worth the 1000 $, which IS a lot of money (and I can get a very good mpc and much more for this amount).
About the corrosion in the bell of the nickel silver: The dealer says that it is manufactoring error and that I could send it back to Keilwerth to get it changed if I want to take this model.

I now have another question: The black nickel has, as I said above, this very small dent of about 2x2 millimeters (you can only see it in the right light) and a small scratch inside the bell. Can I sell this saxophone in 5 or 10 years, if want a new horn or aren't very happy with it, for a good price or do you think such a saxophone doesn't have a good resale value? (I surely won't sale the thing again after buying it but it could be in a few years and I'm not a very decisive person, so I always have to weigth the pro and cons, like resale value, when buying something.)

[Dr G]

If you play it in the next 5 - 10 years, you will probably accumulate more scratches than that. I am compulsive about my gear and still get dings and scratches. The good news is that I have come to accept it. It used to make me crazy.

[Bob Rutkas]

Frasier, don't let him shoot you through the grease! You shouldn't have to put-up with dents, scratches, corrosion and mis-adjustments! Sounds like he isn't offer you any special deals, so find another dealer, this guy is a crook!
And why should you have to send the instrument back to the mfg'r for corrosion? JK doesn't sent out defective horns.
If you live in the Chicago area I can tell you of an excellent JK dealer who will not only sell you a perfect sax, but will also save you some significant cash.

[SoulMate]

As a side note: Why bother thinking about resale value? Just play it, accept that it will accumultate scratches, wear and tear. It personalizes your horn. Once you get used to these fantastic horns, what else would you buy? For me, they are both keepers. I wouldn't sell either of them.
These are some of the best horns on the planet.

P.S.: I like the look of my black nickle better just because it has some wear on it. The NS just looks to "new". I had a CONN (from 1930 but sold it) and it looked very very used. But I loved it. It's a matter of taste...

[SoulMate]

I forgot to mention: try and look for another dealer. It doesn't sound trustworthy at all.