Rovner's Window-lengthening

[DukoffHollywood]

What do the mouthpiece refacers of the board think about the enlarged window of the Rovner mouthpieces? I saw on their website that they supposedly have a bigger, more projecting sound with ease of play..more so than regular shaped mouthpieces. My grandson was looking to purchase one...what do the experienced refacers around here know about this window enlarging technique and the effect that it has on the piece itself?

[MojoBari]

Rovner pieces work. He's a pretty inovative designer. I think the longer window primarily allows Rovner the room to machine in the chamber and baffle shape they want. In practice, I think the long window behaves much like a concave table in that it only supports the reed around its perimeter and therefore allows it to warp as much it wants. This is usually not a major problem.

The longer window would also make for a larger chamber except I think Rovner compensates by making the other side of the chamber away from the reed not as deep.

So Rovner has a unique feature to market, and they do. If you get one and happen to like it, I think it will be because of the facing work and the baffle design, not the deep window.

[Bill Mecca]

I seem to remember on the old fourm someone mentioning the lengthened the window on a Vandoren with good results. If that person is still around maybe he/she will post about it.

[David Spiegelthal]

I completely agree with MojoBari --- the Rovner mouthpieces are mainly good because they have decent facings and chambers, and the lengthened window has very little to do with it. In the past I experimented with lengthening the windows (no other changes being made) on a fair number of sax and clarinet mouthpieces, and I could tell very little difference 'before' and 'after'. Phil Rovner's products are just good-quality stuff in general --- that's why they work.

[Gange]

It's perhaps not answer to your question and quite off topic, but I do play a Rovner metal, without the deep window. I have tried many of the "standard" jazz mps, but nothing could give me that same sound and response as this one does.
I haven't seen anyone using Rovner mps, and I just can't guess why. I just stumbled on mine when I was looking for a new jazz mp. Buying a metal mp had not even crossed my mind! Well I had seen a hr Rovner when a friend/mentor/teacher of mine had it home to try it, some year prior to my buying mine.

Being a 6* and made of some dark brown/greyish metal is unfortunately all I know about it. It also has some rubber "plug" inside the chamber (where the baffle meets the "roof").

I also agree with you guys that it is a high quality piece of work/art.

I would not recommend it to anyone since choice of mps is very personal, but I definately recommend you to put the Rovners on your list of interesting mps if you are looking for something new. _I_ love _mine_:-)

[T.S.]

The one thing that is very cool about Rovner pieces is their consistancy and finish work which in every one I've owned, been absolutely superb.
I really like them on alto...and God do they project!

[spiderjames]

So deepening the window on my alto mouthpiece will increase the volume? if a piece was good in every other respect but lacked enough volume for good intonation might this correct it?

[shmuelyosef]

I sure didn't read that conclusion anywhere....

btw, anyone have any experience with the bari pieces? They are such a good deal right now!!

[spiderjames]

I'm reachin' here

The longer window would also make for a larger chamber except I think Rovner compensates by making the other side of the chamber away from the reed not as deep.

Since a mouthpiece with a normal window would not have this compensation, altering the window would increase the volume of the mouthpiece. Any thoughts as to whether this would be enough to alter the intonation substantially?

[Dave Dolson]

Spiderjames: Don't know about saxophone pieces but I recently bought a Rovner clarinet piece with the long window. It works great and does not change my intonation. DAVE

[Stencilman]

The design I've recently honed in on for bright mouthpieces for my vintage horns is a high front baffle, a medium squared chamber and an elongated window. The long window does add to the chamber volume.

Just today, I finished off an old Dukoff D8 soprano piece by enlarging the tiny chamber with a flat file and filing back the window by about 6mm. This extra volume made it possible to push in the mouthpiece quite a bit more. The high range of my Martin soprano is now comfortable with the Dukoff, instead of having to pinch with the stock D8.

[Paul Coats]

Lengthening the window on a mouthpiece not designed this way initially would increase the CHAMBER VOLUME, we are talking cubic inches, CC's, etc, not loudness.

And chamber volume (capacity, cubic inches, etc) has very little bearing on loudness. How loud a mouthpiece can be played depends more on the tip opening and baffle.

A big chamber does not a loud mouthpiece make.

[Ol' Mpc Doc]

Lengthening the window on a mouthpiece not designed this way initially would increase the CHAMBER VOLUME, we are talking cubic inches, CC's, etc, not loudness.

And chamber volume (capacity, cubic inches, etc) has very little bearing on loudness. How loud a mouthpiece can be played depends more on the tip opening and baffle.

A big chamber does not a loud mouthpiece make.

Paul's comments are correct but it's important to remember that actual dynamic volume (measured in dB) is ultimately determined by the player's airstream form and management on any given mpc. Only two things are moving to produce your tonal quality and dynamic volume - the player's airstream and the reed - so the player has absolute control of the volume (in dB), not the mpc. The mpc is completely passive. The "EQ" established in the chamber may influence (favorably or unfavorably) the perceived "loudness" or "projection" of specific frequencies in the sound but has virtually no effect on actual audible volume levels measured in dB. "Loudness" (in dB) is measurable, "projection" is simply an immeasurable subjective perception. Many players seem to find it easier to blame the equipment for any "deficiency" in "loudness" or "projection" than to accept responsibility for it themselves.

[spiderjames]

I was thinking along the lines of modifying an old alto piece to increase the chamber volume to see if it would work on a C-melody.

[wbras]

I've been playing a Rovner deep V #8 (.110) metal for a couple of years now and I love it. Usually I take a Dukoff D7, Sugal Super Gonz II, and the Rovner to a job. All are set up with reeds that work, so I can swap out if needed. I take a Bari brand plastic reed for the the Dukoff, and Rico jazz select M or MH or Vandoren Java 3 or 3.5 for the Sugal and the Rovner. I've played with these pieces on a Mark VI, Conn 10m, Conn 16m (spare horn) and soon a Keilwerth and the Rovner has a great sound and power, nearly as much as the Sugal, but at a much, much lower price.
Low notes and altissimos work with all three. The Rovner sure is a good piece for the $$.

[goodsax]

<skip>btw, anyone have any experience with the bari pieces? They are such a good deal right now!!

I use a Bari gold on my 10M with excellent results compared to some HR pieces I tried earlier. I've used it in a concert band setting and sat in for the lead tenor in a swing dance band. Both times convinced me I needn't look for other tenor mpc's as the Bari gold is very versatile, at least for me.

[tledjazz]

I've been using a Rovner 9m deep v tenor mpc with the high baffle for about 15 years. I get great projection with it. You do have to be careful about the reed placement, since the table is so small. I love it though. Best of all, It only cost about $100 @ wwbw when I bought it!