king zephyr bari

[dingfelder]

Im reposting this since the old ones got wiped :shock:

I recently got a 1960s King Zephyr Bari (sn # 3799xx). With that serial #, I believe it could be a zephyr II ? (any other clues besides the serial #?)

I am investing 1 big one getting it restored, and am eager to hear it honk. I am having him put on plastic resonators so I can get a dark sound. Any thoughts as to if this is a good idea?

It needs a full repad and lots of dedenting and a bit of resolder on a few key guards.

It looks like on Steve's site he refers to a zephyr bari as being worth in the ballpark of 2500, but I assume zephyr Is vs IIs and other features im not aware of could affect the price as well. I dont plan on selling it but am interested in the value for my own knowledge.

Thoughts ?

[Hornlip]

I think the prices listed at Saxgourmet's site are premised on a horn in excellent mechanical & cosmetic condition, so you might keep that in mind.

There are difinately differences between Zephyr's I and II as far as alto & tenor go, but I think I've heard that the Baris stay pretty much the same and pretty much excellent throughout the whole run, far after the Zeph tenors & altos had truly dropped to intermediate/student status (which I think began to happen in the mid '50's.

I think Saxpic's site breaks down the differences between the two:

http://www.saxpics.com/

[Pete]

I rarely get sent an e-mail to answer a question on this forum, so I'll try to give it a shot!

Hornlip's definitely right: there are significant differences in the King Zephyr produced after the introduction of the Super 20, significant differences in the Zephyr and Zephyr Special, and Zephyrs produced pre and post WWII -- for alto and tenor. I've chronicled a bit of this on my King Zephyr page (http://www.saxpics.com/king/zephyr.htm) on my website (I've also got some more data on those horns, but I have to search my e-mail to get it all together!).

However, there seems to be no significant cosmetic difference between the Voll-True, "pre Super 20" Zephyr, "post Super 20" Zephyr -- or pre or post war Zephyr, for that matter -- for the baritone. The only significant difference that I can see between the Voll-True and Zephyr baritones is the elimination of the Eb vent key.

Now, I cannot attest to any bore or neck changes in the horn, but I find it unlikely that there are any.

There are significant differences -- cosmetic and otherwise -- between the Zephyr bari and the Super 20 bari. Sorry to disappoint y'all there :lol:

IMHO, the Voll-True and Zephyrs probably shared the same tooling. I also think that the "pre Super 20" Zephyrs are probably made with a bit better quality control and materials because the "post Super 20" Zephyrs were advertised as "intermediate" quality and seem to have somewhat different tooling for the keywork. It'd probably have to be a blind taste-test to find out which horns are better or if there is any significant difference.

Now, before I make my last comments, let me add one thing that I think I remember from the e-mails that I can't find right now: I think that my e-mailer and I determined that a bunch of the Zephyrs produced in the first few years of the Super 20 era really had no significant differance from the ones produced prior to the advent of the S20. I'm not sure if we determined the exact range, but it was definitely into the 300,000's. This was based on the discovery of a bunch of sterling-silver neck Zephyr altos and tenors produced after the advent of the S20 that behaved similarly to the Zephyr Special!

So, my final test: you might want to see if the "post S20" Zephyr neck fits on the "pre S20" or Voll-True and see if it plays in tune. I think it will.

(Final note: AFAIK, there are no Voll-True II, Zephyr Special or Super 20 Silver-Sonic baris -- although I've heard reports of the latter. If you have pictures of any of these horns or King baritones in general, send me some at saxpics@x-mail.net. Thanks!)

[addissax]

'Bout 3 years ago I bought a '51 Zephyr from SaxGourmet Steve for
2.5k. Good horn ...little lacquer. Currently using a Brilhart-9, Bari* medium. Having some intonation problems but lipping it. Overall, I've been pleased with the horn, but I'm ready to move on.

[shmuelyosef]

I have a Zephyr bari #365xxx that I restored some time ago with Slemer-style plastic domed resonators and it roars. It came to me with plain rivet pads, and I think the resonators improved the intonation and projection. I was also hesitant because these originally came with small flat metal resonators, but I had previously done an early Zephyr alto with similar resonators (it was an old lacquer-stripped horn, so not much to lose in value) and really liked the outcome as well...that has become my rock 'n roll alto!!

The Zephyr baris appear to have stayed constant until about 425xxx and the move to Eastlake. At that point they added a front F key (mine doesnt' have front F...a pain) and I think the bell was a little smaller (although I admit I didn't measure when I had the chance with a customer horn). That horn definitely did not play as well as my older (but definitely post S20) horn.