So frustrated that I'm thinking about switching to alto...

[Konrad]

Here's the deal: I can get a decent sound (althugh lately I've suddenly started playing out of tune, which is also why I'm frustrated) but I have small, beat-up hands and I haven't been able to progress as fast as I would like. I tried an alto the other day, had little trouble with tightening my embouchre, but was mainly surprised by the comfort of playing a smaller horn.

I LOVE the sound of a tenor. Alto's have never really done it for me. On the other hand, it is frustrating to fudge licks that you can hear in your head simply thanks to ergonomics/comfort. I've been playing about 18 months, but have been singing and playing music semi-professionally for quite some time. This reminds me of playing a long-scale guitar when I really feel better on a short scale--but at the age of 37, it's not as easy to adjust to long reaches as it would have been had I started as a kid.

What do you think? A buddy came buy and really ripped on alto. It was the first time I could say I liked the sound. But tenor is my first love...

K (Still thinking)

[Lyle]

Konrad

You have posted your frustration of this problem on other threads but I don't recall your saying if you have had the tenor to a tech to see if a modification to the keys would solve the problem.
If I did have your problem, and modifications to the horn would not help, I would get an alto right now. I also prefer tenor but an alto can also sing.

I hope you find a solution to your finger problem.

Best Wishes
Lyle

PS
Have you tried bass clarinet? I have played that horn, and they have a great sound.

[saxmanglen]

Konrad,

What kind of tenor are you playing?
I have hands with short fingers that make it a bit challenging on tenor. I've found the Yanagisawa horns to be a bit more friendly for those of us with smaller hands. I use the T901. It's probably one of the best horns for the money. You may want to play test one if you can.

Regards, Glen

[Razzy]

I have large hands and still have serious trouble with Conn tenors, in terms of getting my fingers on the keys! Hopefully you're not playing one of these, even though they have a great sound!

[singlereed]

I too have small hands and have had nor problem with modern tenors from Yanagisawa, Keilwerth, Buffet or Selmer. I do find older horns a bit awkward, though. Do have your set-up checked, ideally with a pro teacher or helpful dealer - you may have a badly set-up horn, or an inappropriate reed or mouthpiece. That said, I do find tenor the most challenging to play, it has taken me a long time to get fully comfortable on the instrument, whereas I got a good even response out of soprano, alto and baritone with far more ease and more quickly than with tenor. Just out of interest, maybe go and try a brand new Yamaha or Yanagisawa horn and see how easy it can be to play.

[Billy The Fish]

I That said, I do find tenor the most challenging to play, it has taken me a long time to get fully comfortable on the instrument, whereas I got a good even response out of soprano, alto and baritone with far more ease and more quickly than with tenor.

Strange how different people have such different experiences. I was recommended to start out on Alto as it was easier (Coltrane and Lester Young both did the same), but when I switched to Tenor I found it so much easier than the Alto, even when I go back to the Alto now. Admittedly, part of that may be the set up. I play a very good Tenor horn (Selmer Ref 54), with which my YAS-275 Alto cannot compete. I have also got very comfortable with my Tenor mouthpieces, but never really feel as comfortable with my HR Link piece for the Alto (as I don't play the Alto that often at the moment, I have not got around to switching mouthpieces). But setup aside, when I was shopping around for my Tenor I tried out about 20 with a generic mouthpiece (I had left my own at home :oops: ) and I found all but the oldest vintages from the 20s (some of which felt really really weird, the Bueschers especially) were much easier to play than any of the Altos I have since tried.

Konrad, given that your first love is the Tenor, I would stick with it, and just work on the problem. If you switch instruments to avoid the problem, you will always be looking over your shoulder at that Tenor (metaphorically speaking) wondering "what if".

Billy The Fish

[Razzy]

Like I said before, I think that's usually a question of setup, Billy. Probably the case with singlereed as well. Unless your setups are pretty much identical (which is impossible because even the same model of horn are going to have different qualities between tenor and alto, even), you're going to have a little more difficulty with one horn than with another...

That said, I am more comfortable on the alto than the tenor, but that's mostly due to the fact that I do 80% if not more of my practicing on alto. My alto is a Vito horn in very good adjustment. My tenor is a Mark VI in very poor adjustment. So, in my case, it's not the quality of make but how relatively well the horns are adjusted that make one seem easier. On alto, I fatigue faster in the embouchure, but on tenor, I lose the breath support sooner. My comfort on the alto is still mostly a question of the setup: my alto setup is much easier to play than my tenor setup (on tenor I use a harder reed and more open mouthpiece than the relative tip opening/reed strength of my alto). This is another factor that makes me not as comfy on the tenor. But it's something I do to get that wonderful strong, bright TONE I love about the harder setups.

I've always thought that if all your horns, mouthpieces, ligatures, reeds etc. on each size horn were of equal quality (virtually impossible but work with me here), and you practiced and played them all equally (also usually impossible; most of us are stronger on one or two horns than on the others), you'd not see a different in how easily they play for you, besides of course, the lower instruments taking more breath support, and the higher instruments taking more embouchure.

[rrex54]

Konrad, Two quick thoughts. First, as others have said, there is a lot of variation in horns. I am a relative novice and have played only vintage horns, but see a fair amount of differnce between my Martin Searchlight and Buescher Aristocrat horns. The former hangs very low and on an anle that is not the best for the mouthpiece entering the mouth. The latter has side key rods that are a bit short for my taste (the RH must come up to reach them) -- and what seems a nasty reach for the C# in the pinky cluster.

Second, if modification or horn changes do not solve your problem, consider a very dark alto. As much as I love tenor, I think I might take my Martin Handcraft alto with vintage Martin or Goldbeck mpc over just about tenor other than a Martin. The darkeness of the Handcraft has done a lot to keep me playing alto!

[Gandalfe]

Um, so what does your instructor, band director, sax buddy say? Or do you just wanna go this alone?

[Konrad]

I saw this and went to a gig with a guy who has a Yani.

You guys are right. It is much more comfortable than my Yamaha...

I've been experimenting with the Yamaha... it plays in tune if I pull the mpc way out. It really is strange...

I haven't given up on tenor, but thanks for the advice.

K

[Subtone Sam]

Konrad,which mouthpiece&reed setup do you play on your Yamaha? If nothing else,Yamahas usually play well in tune.

[electricninja]

Thank goodness the electric guitar made an unhappy wreck of my 21-year-old hands, otherwise I would have never rediscovered my burning love for the sax. I got frustrated with my suck-itude early on, but half a year of daily scale practices have made my fingers jump to all the right notes in a song, in the most amazing automatic way. Practice every single day, even if for only 15 minutes. Your muscle memory will eventually kick in.

I have an alto and a baritone, and though they each hit a different sweet spot, I'm thinking I'll have to buy a tenor soon to hit the sweetest spot of all. We'll be a happy little family, one sound for each occasion. Kenny G ruined the soprano for me, but I'll eventually get over it.... I always have bad GAS. :lol:

Good luck! And don't give up, buddy. 8)

[singlereed]

It is nothing to do with set-up for me - I have owned several peaches of tenor saxophones - a new Ref 54, a mint SDA, a nice S1, two Keilwerths and now a mint Mark VI. Each has been properly set-up and I have taken time to select suitable mouthpieces and reeds. I am very happy with my Mark VI, however, I still feel tenor sax is the greatest challenge for me to play. I play regularly, but if I slip out of practise, I find its the one I have to work at most. I am a stickler for tone and response and cannot abide anything less than an even response and full dynamic range across the whole of the instrument. Certainly, any badly set-up sax will make the job harder. However, my point is that for me, tenor is the one that has taken most effort to master. I am sure it has to do with my physiology and also my concept of sound and may be so for the person who posed the question. I also strongly agree that your heart is important, as the desire to master it will see you through many difficult times when practice is not so easy!

[JL]

Everybody is different. For me, the tenor is by far the easiest and most enjoyable one to play (even though I started out on alto). I can play tenor much longer than alto without feeling strained nr tired. I don't really know why. Perhaps it's just because I like the sound of a tenor so much that I just gravitated to it.

[Razzy]

Could also be that tenor takes less embouchure pressure than alto. The only reason I could understand tenor being more difficult is the player having less capacity for breath support. For me it's always seemed to require more breath support than the others, alto and sop needed more embouchure than air, and bari needed simply more air volume.

[OnyxSax]

I have small hands, but I've always managed to find a way to get my hands on the keys the right way. Selmers are definitely the most comfortable for small hands, but I also play Conns. The Conns require a small bit of adjusting to fit well, mostly getting the palm keys out of the way. It's just a matter of getting used to it.