SML Super Tenor

[jonni]

an anybody give me some info on this horn? Is this a good (i.e. one of the preferred models) horn??


It has a serial number of 69XX, anybody know what year that might make it.

What would be roughly a fair price for it in decent shape??

ANd it's silver plated if that makes a difference

Many thanks

Jonni

[tjontheroad]

http://saxpics.com/sml/super.htm

[Dr G]

Have you visited Saxpics.com? Lots o' great stuff there...

[Dr G]

Funny, real funny. How come the time stamp is the same and yet you got there "first"?

[jonni]

Yup, tried the saxpics site and got some info, but can't find anything that gives me an idea of the date and also the links to the various Rev's don't work, I just get a page up saying 'cannot be found'.

[mike_s]

are you buying or selling?

it also depends which super is it, 45, 46, 47 etc.....

condition is a huge factor too, what shape is the horn in?

i think all of the super horns are silver plated and the number generally indicates the year, super 47 was made in 1947.

i have a super 46 alto that has been hard to sell, plays great, better than a gold medal i had but, it doesn't have the name recognition so no one wants to buy it. i have spent way too much money on this horn.

honestly, SML's got pretty hot there for a while in what i believe was mostly an intenret buzz driven price increase. the prices seem to have come down considerably , probably to where they should be. that said, tenors shoudl be worth more than altos and easier to sell.

[tjontheroad]

Funny, real funny. How come the time stamp is the same and yet you got there "first"?

Same time, same reply... Crazy :lol: Great minds think alike.

[jonni]

are you buying or selling?

it also depends which super is it, 45, 46, 47 etc.....

condition is a huge factor too, what shape is the horn in?

Looking at buying.

Finally managed to track down the serial number list on saxpics (by cutting and pasting a link from another posting on this site) which appears to put the year as late 46 to early 47. It's between the two numbers given so that's what I'm assuming.

I haven't seen the horn in the flesh but it's within reasonable distance of where I live, but want to have an idea of what it should be worth before making the journey.

As for the SML hype, well it looks to me lookikng at the various postings on this site that every horn has it's devotees and as many detractors including the venerable Mark VI, which I find quite funny :D

[mike_s]

if its a super 46 , its going to be similar to a rev C. with rat trap keygurds. the super 46 i have plays about the same as a gold medal i had so i would guess the bores are pretty similar. the gold medal had better keywork.

check the condition very carefully, it should have rolled toneholes, and you'll want to see how straight or warped they are as that will effect the cost of getting it overhauled.

i've played a couple of sml altos and a friend of mine has a sml tenor form the early 40's.

the tenor is a great horn, but its no prime vintage VI. granted i woudl guess your looking at spending a lot less than a VI.

i woudl probably spend up to a grand or 1500 on an SMl tenor, its proably a good horn in that price range, and if its less even better. if its much over 1500 i woudl say to look for a used VII which can be had at around 2g's.

just know you'll find many people telling you how wonderful they are but when you try to sell it, those people all seem to vanish. so

[jonni]

the tenor is a great horn, but its no prime vintage VI. granted i woudl guess your looking at spending a lot less than a VI.

i woudl probably spend up to a grand or 1500 on an SMl tenor, its proably a good horn in that price range, and if its less even better. if its much over 1500 i woudl say to look for a used VII which can be had at around 2g's.

just know you'll find many people telling you how wonderful they are but when you try to sell it, those people all seem to vanish. so

Ok based on your information it's about the right sort of money

I was looking at two Mark VII's, one at 1,200 and one at 1,500 (1978 and 79 I think), trouble is they are at the other end of the country!!!!

[mike_s]

1200 for a vii tenor is a great price, leaves room in the budget for an overhaul.

its safe to asssume any used horn will need an overhaul.

the sml is going to have much more of a vintage thing going with it. if your looking for a general all round tenor, i woudl recommend going for the VII.

[Neil Sharpe]

Before moving on a Mark VII, I'd suggest reading through the numerous threads on SOTW about this particular model as well as the info at saxpics.com. Yes, some can be good players, but it's a heavier horn than the VI, the feel of the keywork is different, and the general consensus of opinion appears to be that the VII is one horn that definitely requires a trial because they can be very hit or miss.

[jonni]

Before moving on a Mark VII, I'd suggest reading through the numerous threads on SOTW about this particular model as well as the info at saxpics.com. Yes, some can be good players, but it's a heavier horn than the VI, the feel of the keywork is different, and the general consensus of opinion appears to be that the VII is one horn that definitely requires a trial because they can be very hit or miss.

Yes I have read through the various posts and I even asked a question recently re the Mark VII and that's what put me off travelling the 200 miles to go look at these two.

The weight isn't a problem, I'm 6' 6" and built like the proverbial out house with a neck thats used to having large weights hanging off it ;-)

The main problem for me with any horn is the key layout, I have a disease of the hands which means my fingers will eventually curl up and won't straighten, at the moment it's only the little finger of my right hand that is affected and I can't move it too far sideways and it won't straighten out.

My Yam keywork is perfect for me as the bottom keys are angled upwards and are close enough to the D key to allow me to reach wihtout having to move my other fingers or my wrist. But I do have very big hands and large fingers.

The only reason I keep looking at other horns is cos I still haven't found that sound I'm looking for and 'the grass is always greener' i guess

[Sax Hut]

As long as you are looking at French-made horns, including vintage, don't rule out the voice of a Dolnet in good condition. For ergos alone, definitely not a modern Selmer-system keyboard, but they might seem far more comfortable to you than an SML. Also, along with a Mark-VII, all of these are going to feel significantly heavier than your Yamaha. Another plus is that Dolnets often sell for substantially less than their French siblings....

Per the Mark VIIs you have an opportunity to buy, "other side of the country" = around 200 miles? You must be somewhere on the other side of the Atlantic..... The 1200 quote was ..... in quid?

[mike_s]

sorry to hear abouyt your hand scene, i woudl suggest you check out any horn before buying it.

i play a VII alto, and i'm 6'8", you might want to check them out. for all fo the hemming and hawing, about the VII pinky clusters, they are usually horribly out of adjustment and when adjusted they aren't that bad.

also the biggest issue is on low B to c sharp on the bell keys, a pain in scales but not somethign i do fast all that often when playing.

[jonni]

Per the Mark VIIs you have an opportunity to buy, "other side of the country" = around 200 miles? You must be somewhere on the other side of the Atlantic..... The 1200 quote was ..... in quid?[/QUOTE]


Yes, I'm in the UK and the price was in £ sterling not dollars (see my other thread for my comments re £ v $ saxophone costs !!)

Thanks for the pointer re Dolnet, not a make I have ever come across though.

I'm off to a big saxophone trade day on Sunday and there should be the opportunity to try all sorts of different makes and models there. :D

Will let you know how I get on.

[Neil Sharpe]

Sorry to hear about your condition. The sax show should be a great opportunity to try out a variety of horns, vintage and new. Another excellent site for reference is Stephen Howard's, who's located in England. He has a wealth of information including reviews. Perhaps, you could contact him for some suggestions. He's also a member of SOTW and you could try a PM to him

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/

The Dolnet does have an excellent reputation although I haven't played one myself. Depending on your music tastes, the Buffet Super Dynactions are also well regarded. As noted, www.saxpics.com is an excellent resource as are the various sections on SOTW.

[Sigmund451]

My opinion but a VII is not a horn for someone with hand/finger/joint problems. In the event you have really large hands it may work. Id be leaning for something with a more friendly table...especially if stretching or extending hastens the onset of the problems. There are lots of horns Id consider more finger friendly.

[jonni]

There are lots of horns Id consider more finger friendly

Suggestions would be most welcome :D

[Tryptykon]

sorry to hear abouyt your hand scene, i woudl suggest you check out any horn before buying it.

i play a VII alto, and i'm 6'8", you might want to check them out. for all fo the hemming and hawing, about the VII pinky clusters, they are usually horribly out of adjustment and when adjusted they aren't that bad.

also the biggest issue is on low B to c sharp on the bell keys, a pain in scales but not somethign i do fast all that often when playing.

Agreed . I'm 7'2" and .. uhhhh .... :D

Are you guys really that tall ???

6'8" alto player ?

damn !

You need to try a tubax, instead .

[jonni]

Agreed . I'm 7'2" and .. uhhhh .... :D

Are you guys really that tall ???

6'8" alto player ?

damn !

You need to try a tubax, instead .

Yes, I was slightly disturbed by that as well, at 6' 6" I always thought the Alto made me look like an Orangutang playing a kazoo and a curved soprano takes on the appearance of a Peruvian nose flute, but hey ho :D

[Tryptykon]

I was only kidding; so I'm hoping no one took offense.

I think the tallest saxophonist I've seen in the flesh was Mike Brecker at 6'5"

[Dr G]

Ratz. I didn't know he was that tall. I guess I'll have to go back to wearing platform shoes. I'm only 6'4".

[mike_s]

i am very much 6'8".

i played tenor till college then had to learn alto as i bounced around a couple of mainly classical programs. since leaving college i go back and forth between the two.

oddly alto doesn't feel that small to me. curved sops are right out.

a friend of mine who makes his living as a gigging pianist in nyc wants me to move there and only play bass sax. he thinks i would get famous as i could play the bass standing like it were a tenor. i keep telling him this is a stupid idea.

[jonni]

a friend of mine who makes his living as a gigging pianist in nyc wants me to move there and only play bass sax. he thinks i would get famous as i could play the bass standing like it were a tenor. i keep telling him this is a stupid idea

I think he may be onto something here !!!!!!!! :D ;)

[ajsax40]

With your right pinkie problem, I would stay away from the Mark 7.
When it was designed (by Fred Hemke-big man with big hands) many players had problems with the right pinkie low c. It was way further away than the mark 6 low c.
Please let me know if I can help you with an instrument as I have hundreds in stock.
Adam