Kessler custom vs deluxe

[pauld3]

Hi all

I am thinking of upgrading from my Bundy II alto, and was wondering if anybody has an opinion if the Kessler deluxe is (engraving aside) better than the custom. Im a late bloomer, and do not plan on ever playing in front of anybody besides my family. The engraving is nice, but ive never really been turned on by that. I was just wondering if anybody has played both and had an opinion.

Thanks Paul

[sax warrior]

im not a pro but i think you should go with the kessler deluxe

[Dave Dolson]

Paul: Have you discussed this with Dave Kessler? He'll tell you his opinion and he knows his products better than anyone. DAVE

[sax warrior]

dave would recommend his product so he gets money! ask someone who has been playing awhile

[Canadiain]

dave would recommend his product so he gets money! ask someone who has been playing awhile
They are both his product!

Dave would be happy to discuss the differences Im sure. Ive never seen anything but positive comments about his customer service and straight forwardness. If money were no object he would in fact recommend a Yani rather than a Kessler.

[sax warrior]

ugh, i mean he only owns* kessler

[Canadiain]

But the question was about the difference between the Kessler Custom and Delux, not the Bundy:?

Its a moot point whether either is a significant step up from a good (older) Bundy.

[Canadiain]

i think sometimes people just wanna spend money..
Aint that the truth. On the other hand there are some pretty beat up ex school system, out of adjustment, Bundy IIs out there that almost anything would be a step up from.

Anyway, this isnt helping the OP.

[jacobeid]

dave would recommend his product so he gets money! ask someone who has been playing awhile

Dave is known for recommending what he thinks will best suit your needs. I've been a first person witness to him recommending something cheaper than what something thought they needed, or recommended a different brand of saxes instead of his own in that price range.

[jacobeid]

Your little comments all over the forum are becoming a little annoying. We all screw around sometimes, but posting half sentence responses without proper punctuation and grammar is not a good way to gain respect on these boards. And I know that you said you were fairly young in one of the other 30 posts you've made in the past few minutes, but many others amongst us are too, including myself, and we manage to write properly most of the time.

Edit: And commenting on things that you don't have direct experience isn't very helpful to the original poster. I could be totally wrong, but it seems like you have never dealt with Kessler Music before. I haven't either, but I try not to go around stating opinions about companies I haven't dealt with.

I can certainly agree with this. I'm 15, but I would guess most members here wouldn't have guessed that I'm so young. I use proper grammar (most of the time, or at least attempt to), use complete sentences, and my posts have good reason behind them.

[goodsax]

Pauld3: As you probably know from perusing http://www.kesslermusic.com, the only difference cited that would affect the tone is the fully ribbed construction on the deluxe models. How much ribbed construction affects the tone is a frequent subject of debate. Some think it tends to dampen vibrations compared to non-ribbed models, and others contend that it has little effect on the air column which is the real source of the sound. Therefore, I think the primary factor to consider is how the two models compare for durability, i.e., how well will each hold up under a lot of use. In theory, I tend to believe ribbed construction could be more robust and durable than single post mounting. But, I haven't made a study of it, so can't take a firm stand on that. The other differences are cosmetic only: engraving and real MOP touches.

Sound/tone is so subjective and terribly difficult to accurately describe that the only way to know for sure how much the difference means to you is to do the a/b yourself. One of Dave Kessler's customer-oriented features is his liberal return policy. I've experienced that first hand and he's a man of his word.

That said, I agree with those who advise asking Dave for his input. If you read some of the past threads in which he participated, you'll find him very honest in his appraisals of the various model saxophones. At least I have.

[jacobeid]

Thou art the one who brought up whips in the first Place sir.

The only reason I brought up these "whips" was to correct your misinterpretation of Dave Kessler's business ethics. It was not fair of you to bad mouth Dave in a way that doesn't even pertain to him, so I corrected you. That's all there is to it, and that's all I wish there to be in our discussion.

Jacob

[jacobeid]

I completely agree with everything that Rob (goodsax) says. Ask Dave, he'll tell you whether you should spend the extra cash or not, and I wouldn't be surprised if he said you don't need the deluxe model.

By the way, 'sax warrior' has been added to my block list.

[goodsax]

By the way, sir. it is exactly 47 posts in the last hour and a half. Also for one who seems to know alot about grammar you should know that you shouldn't start a sentence with 'and'.

Why not? It's done all the time by prolific authors and reputable journalists.

[pauld3]

Seems like I opened a can of worms.

So is it an upgrade to go from a Bundy II thats not in great shape ( could use some pads ) to the Kessler

Paul

[sax warrior]

yep, stay with the bundy. thats just my recomendation. I wish you the best of luck in what ever decision you make.

[goodsax]

Seems like I opened a can of worms.

So is it an upgrade to go from a Bundy II thats not in great shape ( could use some pads ) to the Kessler

Paul
IMHO, yes. I'm sorry, I thought you were more interested in the differences between the Kessler Custom and the Deluxe.

[odsum25]

Seems like I opened a can of worms.

So is it an upgrade to go from a Bundy II thats not in great shape ( could use some pads ) to the Kessler

Paul

I haven't played the Kessler horns, as I said earlier, but I would honestly just suggest giving Dave a call. He seems to be very approachable and will tell you what he really thinks. The Bundy II, especially if it's an early one, can be a decent horn, but if you have the money right now and don't mind paying shipping if you don't like it, you may as well go ahead and order one. My Antigua soprano (bought here used,) originally came from Kessler's and is in wonderful playing condition. This is another advantage to going with a Kessler horn. It is guaranteed that the horn will be set up well. I'll let others weigh in on the topic who have playing experience with the Kessler horns, but I really just wanted to get this thread back on topic after the bit of mischief in the middle.

[pauld3]

Well I did want to know if anybody had some experience with the two horns. The bundy needs work, its banged up, needs pads, in looking into the costs of an overhaul, and dent work, and the cost of Daves horns, and what ive read on SOTW concerning Daves horns all being a great deal. Just was wondering if anybody had tried both.

[jacobeid]

I also agree that his horns would be an upgrade, especially considering you wouldn't be paying much more for an all new, well set up horn than fixing up your bundy. I myself have not played Dave's horns. I'm basing my opinion on the fact that I have a bundy II for marching and by Dave Dolson's responce to the Kessler Custom Saxes. If I recall right, he bought one for his grandson and said it played very well and his grandson loves it. If you don't know Dave, his opinions are worth a good listen.

Just my opinion though. Call up Dave Kessler, see what he says.

Odsum25-I thought Mr. Kessler was the dealer who payed for initial shipping AND return shipping if you were unsatisfied. I believe that it is him, but I could very well be mistaken.

[odsum25]

I also agree that his horns would be an upgrade, especially considering you wouldn't be paying much more for an all new, well set up horn than fixing up your bundy. I myself have not played Dave's horns. I'm basing my opinion on the fact that I have a bundy II for marching and by Dave Dolson's responce to the Kessler Custom Saxes. If I recall right, he bought one for his grandson and said it played very well and his grandson loves it. If you don't know Dave, his opinions are worth a good listen.

Just my opinion though. Call up Dave Kessler, see what he says.

Odsum25-I thought Mr. Kessler was the dealer who payed for initial shipping AND return shipping if you were unsatisfied. I believe that it is him, but I could very well be mistaken.

Perhaps you're right. Like, I said I haven't dealt with them personally, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so.

[EZ]

AND the First Place "Annoying Twit With Little to Add to Any Discussion" award goes to...

[gworthey]

Paul,

I have played a Bundy II and both Kessler horns. I currently own the Kessler Deluxe tenor. I also played the Kessler Custom alto and preferred the Deluxe. I bought the tenor as back up to my Mark VII and actually play the Kessler Deluxe more often. IMO, the Kessler horns (both of them) are upgrades from the Bundy IIs. The Deluxe has richer, fuller sound to my ears.

Now, about Dave Kessler. I have never dealt with a more open and honest dealer. He will tell you what will best fit your needs, whether it be his own horns or someone elses. For the money, I don't believe you can go wrong with the Kessler Deluxe.

[jacobeid]

^^I agree with gworthey. I was about to buy one of Kessler's mouthpieces, but he directed me in a direction he thought would better suit my needs. That's honesy right there.

[Sax in the Snow]

I bought a Custom several months and couldn't be happier with it. I looked at the Deluxe but $200 more for ribbed and engraved wasn't worth it. You said yourself you were not that interested in all that engraving - I sure don't like too much of it. Betcha 98 people out of 100 can't hear the diffference between the ribbed too.

I got the brushed, that is one very nice looking sax!

Dave was tops too!

[gworthey]

The Deluxe has richer, fuller sound to my ears.


Betcha 98 people out of 100 can't hear the diffference between the ribbed too.


Okay, who's the other one? :D

[DaveKessler]

Wow, interesting thread! :)

Currently, the major difference between the 2 is ribbed vs. non-ribbed construction and then the engraving. However, what really costs more is the engraving.

We are planning on eventually transitioning the standard models to ribbed construction in the near future because we do prefer the performance of the ribbed model over the standard.

Originally, the prototype ribbed horns did NOT perform as well as the non ribbed horns when we first released the line. The ribs were too big and thick and did deaden the vibration and response of the horn. Thats why we went the non-ribbed horn.

The factory then re-designed the ribs per our request. The new ribs are the right design and help provide a little warmer tone but without sacrificing the response of the horn.

So this is why we are transitioning the line over to the ribbed eventually.

So in short, right now, the Deluxe model is the better player. Eventually, both will play identical to each other.

[calisax]

I recently received my Kessler Deluxe and love it! It plays better than my Bundy II tenor by far! Major step up - and my Bundy is in perfect mint condition with all new pads and springs. After playing the Kessler for the first time, I went to the music shop and tried out a Yamaha 82Z for comparison. I actually preferred the tone of the Kessler. Every player's different, but I think I've found a horn that definitely works for me.

[matsuo]

^^I agree with gworthey. I was about to buy one of Kessler's mouthpieces, but he directed me in a direction he thought would better suit my needs. That's honesy right there.
Same here, I was gonna get a Selmer C* but instead got a Morgan protone 6J for 2/3's the price:) thanks Dave:D

[larryb]

for a little update to this thread:

I spoke with Dave Kessler and purchased a Kessler Custom Tenor about a month ago.

1. Above all, give him a call to discuss his horns. He's very accessible. Keep in mind that he obviously loves his product and wants to promote it, but he he'll answer your questions - so don't hesitate to ask tough ones (if there are any).

2. I asked about the difference between Custom and Deluxe models. Right now, since they've pretty much made the transition to all full-ribbed horns, the only difference that Dave noted is the engraving (and the price).

3. I'd like to hear what other Kessler customers think about their horns (especially tenors). Here's my initial review (I'm a clarinet player returning to saxophone after many years. When I did play sax, it was an alto (Mark VI - another story), so I was anxious about making the change to tenor):

The Kessler Custom Tenor with the Kessler OL7 Mouthpiece & 2.5 V16 reed is surprisingly easy to play; intonation is even and good; construction seems solid; set up is fine.

For me, this is an ideal horn to get back into. The combination of price and quality is exactly what I was looking for. I had spent many months looking at used and vintage horns, and came to the conclusion that for my budget it made much more sense to buy a decent intermediate new horn from a reputable dealer, instead of dealing with the idiosincracies of a used/vintage product. Since my playing time is limited (I have to concentrate on clarinet), I didn't need the headache and anxiety of worrying about whether any issues had to do with my abilities or the horn. With the Kessler, I know what I need to work on in terms of breath support, embuchure, technique, as opposed to obsessing about equipment.

In a nutshell: the Kessler Custom Tenor has been a pleasure; I wish I had more time to play it. In a year or so, I might consider upgrading to a new or used Selmer, Keilworth, etc, but perhaps I won't.

Cheers!

[BayviewSax]

I picked up a Kessler Custom tenor as a back-up. My main tenor is a Mark VI. The keywork is astoundingly good. It's identical to the Series III Selmer I owned, but the feel is better (IMO). The horn has more of a spread tone than the selmer, and doesn't ring like the Mark VI, but for the price, and for a back-up, I'm nothing short of thrilled. The quality is excellent, right down to the case. I didn't buy it from Dave, but I did discuss it with him prior to the purchase, and he's one of the few people in this field whom I've found to be completely trustworthy. He didn't try to sell me on any horn and his answers to my questions were direct and to the point. To the OP, you're currently playing a Bundy. If you have an overhaul done, you'll be playing an overhauled Bundy (for a cost of probably $400+). Given that, and the improved keywork you'd get on the Kessler, I'd say go for the Kessler. Mine is the Custom and I've got nothing but positive things to say about it.

[ratracer]

fwiw, - My tenor is a Custom Deluxe. I've had it since the middle of January. Been very pleased with it and the 50OL7 mouthpiece. My impression is that it's built very well. Played well out of the box after shipping. Working with Dave Kessler was a pleasure. Highly recommended. I took a risk and it's paid off well. I've got a long ways to go before I can ever think about outgrowing it. Only reason you'll be disappointed is if you've already got your heart set on one of the big four or finding a good vintage horn.

Cheers! (And no, this is not a paid announcement! I'd have to pay Kessler to advertise or endorse the horn! :D )