Are Kessler Custom Tenors really pro quality?

[calisax]

I had a deal with a Mark VI that ended up falling through. To be honest, I've been stuck with student horns for quite some time now. I need a step up, something that can play like a pro! Don't get me wrong, I know it's the player mostly, I can jam with the best of 'em on my Bundy II... but honestly, do these Kessler Custom Tenors really deliver?

[thehighend]

Folks have reported good things about the Kessler saxes, but I haven't heard anyone say yet that they replaced a Mark VI with a Kessler Custom. That would be a bit unusual.

[hgiles]

Going from a VI to the Kessler would have to be a bit of an emotional letdown. Even if technically and scientifically speaking the Kessler were near as good (it may be) as the VI, your psyche wouldn't agree with it.

I think you can find a B&S (stencil) tenor that would do as well as anything available and it won't break the bank.

[Stretch]

I believe the Yanagisawa T 901 is an excellent professional quality tenor at a very reasonable price.

[rleitch]

I think there's a very well-recorded video of a guy playing a Kessler tenor at a blues gig on here somewhere. If you search that out, it might help you decide.

Rory

If I remember my own response to watching it, I wasn't convinced that the horn was quite up to what the guy was doing, but don't qoute me on that.

[calisax]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. You know, I think I really am a Selmer snob. Had my heart set on a VI, and darnit - that's what I want! Hgiles is right, my psyche could not rest on a Kessler. Maybe if I squint real hard when looking at the logo, it kinda resembles Selmer. :| I've never been too concerned over the looks of the horn, but I am picky about its reputation. Well, I'll keep window shopping. Thanks!

[Dave Dolson]

jzroot: Back when I was looking at tenors, I tried one new Yamaha Custom Z, then a new Cannonball (forgot the model, but a hi-end CB) and then bought a Kessler Custom tenor from Dave Kessler. The Z and the CB did nothing to trip my trigger, but the Kessler Custom was fine for my needs. I could have easily popped for the more expensive tenors had one of them made an impression on me.

I admit that I didn't do a lot of looking, that I am not a tenor player, and that my experiences were severly limited - hard to judge entire lines when one only plays one example of each. Also, it could have been the mouthpiece I sued to test the Yamaha and the CB (borrowed from the retailer). The KC came with one of Kessler's fine Custom pieces and those work good for me, too.

I'm happy with the Kessler Custom. No, I don't play it in public. Had I developed into a tenor player, maybe the KC wouldn't rise to the occasion, but it serves me well.

I don't think even Dave Kessler would claim his horns are "professional-grade" (whatever THAT is), but for the money, they are good players (I also bought a KC alto for my grandson and played several others). DAVE

[calisax]

Thanks for the input Dave. As I keep looking around, seems like there aren't any pro horns within my grasp under 6k. Problem is if I spend as much as 3k, it better be the horn I've been dreaming about owning. Problem with ebay is that you can't play the horn first. I keep on going back and forth with the Kessler Customs as I read the old KC threads. I'll keep coming back to this post and see what input I can get out of everyone. If I were to go with a KC, I could pop for it right away. In my earlier twenties I used to collect and swap a ton of different makes and models, just to say "I've played one of those." When I lived in L.A. I used to repad older horns for students for extra dough. I tell ya, I could adjust to just about any horn to get the sound I wanted. Some required different mouthpieces, reeds, and some horns without a doubt blew others out of the water. So to make a long story short, I'm sure I'd get by fine without a pricy VI. Sound quality is all I'm looking for. Just because you buy a VI doesn't necessarily mean you've got a great sound, as not all VI's were created equally. So maybe I'll give this KC a try. Only reason to hesitate is that I had never heard of them until I joined this forum. We'll see...

[rispoli]

jzroot,
make sure you also read the thread in which Dave Kessler states himself, with admirable honesty, that he thinks even Yani T901 and Unison 2000 are better saxes than his custom tenor. These are not generally regarded as top notch pro saxes, rather entry level pro.
I think if you have to go pro with a limited budget you'd do better with the used market.
Just another opinion, of course....

[DaveKessler]

jzroot,
make sure you also read the thread in which Dave Kessler states himself, with admirable honesty, that he thinks even Yani T901 and Unison 2000 are better saxes than his custom tenor. These are not generally regarded as top notch pro saxes, rather entry level pro.
I think if you have to go pro with a limited budget you'd do better with the used market.
Just another opinion, of course....

I firmly believe in an adult getting the best horn that they can afford. Its not like you are buying for a 6th grade student beginning band here.

If your max is $1000, then my Kessler Custom is the best sax on the market.

If you can hit $2000, then its a toss up between the Unison 2000 and the Yani T901 (yes, the Unison is Really THAT good).

If price isnt the issue, then a Reference 36 or 54 new, a great Mark VI or the Keilwerth Shadow would be my recommendations.

[calisax]

I couldn't help but notice that the Kessler Custom Deluxes bare a striking resemblence to a "Swing Street Pro" sax cluttering ebay's listings. The body, bell, neck and engraving look identical. The sax on ebay is about $300 dollars cheaper though. I'm only remarking on this because I've come to question what weighs greatest importance in terms of quality, sound and design. These two makes obviously come out of the same factory. How is one better than the other? Just curious...

[DaveKessler]

jzroot,

Obviously they are using the same engraver. The economics of the Asian sax market is that horns are not really made 100% inside of 1 factory. Rather, there are several facilities used in the production of the sax. Case makers, key makers, padders, engravers, etc...

So yes, they do look like they are using the same engraver or simply their engraver was trained by the same person(s) doing my engraving. This is not uncommon.

Are they the same horn? Doubtful. I cant sell my horn for that price.

[Randall]

jz, the earlier advice to get a B&S is very very good advice. If you are used to Selmers and would rather have a VI, the 2001 or Medusa is going to make you really happy....no, maybe even ecstatic.
I have stated many times here and elsewhere that I feel these horns have actually surpassed the MK VI. I love my Medusa tenor...and I also beleive Dave Kessler has some Medusa stencils for sale too.
If not, you can find them under the Chicago Jazz Series label still, I believe, or go the used route.

[calisax]

Hey thanks for the feedback Dave! Much appreciated! I believe that I am going to give a Kessler Custom tenor a try. Randall, your advice is well appreciated, but I'm afraid my budget is just too low for the Medusas. I'm stuck playing on a Bundy II tenor since I've moved around so much over the past few years and have gotten rid of a lot of horns. My profile says I'm blowing on a VI, that's because I had a deal going with a guy that was going to let me pay in a few installments, then changed his mind and decided to hang onto it. That's all right, I don't need to be spending that kind of dough anyway, my fiancee would kill me. The Bundy actually plays decent for quiet practice in a room with good acoustics, but as with any student horn it's just too limiting. Lower register plays with ease, but altissimo notes - forget it, ain't gonna happen. The more I look at the pics on the Kessler site, the more I become infatuated with those custom horns. If they'll give me a rich, full tone with no draw backs, then I'll take it! The fact that it's perty don't hurt either. I'll be contacting you Dave about possibly financing, which for me would mean about $500 up front and a couple of payments over the next three months to pay it off. Heck, I may even be able to pop for the full price if I pawn off this Bundy and an Olds I've got laying in my closet. My Chu alto brings me a bit of satisfaction, but I mostly hang onto that for sentimental value. I need a decent tenor, as tenor's just my thing! Thanks again for all the advice fellas. See on the threads...

- jzroot

[Jbroad572]

Did you ever try out the Kessler tenor?

[Dr G]

Thanks for the input Dave. As I keep looking around, seems like there aren't any pro horns within my grasp under 6k.

Most every new pro horn short of an Inderbinen or sterling Yani is under 6k. Check out a used Serie III - those should be easily under 3k. Then there are a few Borganis every once in a while in that price range too. Even Ref tenors if you wait patiently.

Get your horns now! After your fiancee becomes your wife, the game may change (if it hasn't already). ;)

[asaxman]

Don't worry about MKVI tenors- Some are great, more are not! I've played many VI's with bad intonation. Although I find the horns made before 1960, are more constitent, the VI can can be a piece of trash, when you consider the cost! Terrible Selmers are going for the same price as great ones! IMO, I would look into the Yamaha tenor- the 62, or 875. These pro saxes are made well, and play in tune, and won't break the bank!

[shmuelyosef]

Did you ever try out the Kessler tenor?
It's only about an 8-10 hour drive from SF to Vegas, not too bad if you have a Honda Civic or equivalent...just play the horns and decide

[DaveKessler]

It's only about an 8-10 hour drive from SF to Vegas, not too bad if you have a Honda Civic or equivalent...just play the horns and decide

IF you like driving, sure.

I used to make that trip in my little sports card before I got married in 7.5 hours flat... loved it. Now that I have 2 kids, I will NEVER make that drive. No way, no how. :)

[Kris Kohl]

Hi All,

...Just my 2 cents on the Kessler Custom. I bought a deluxe soprano about 3 months ago and have been very happy with it. It is the first horn I've picked up in almost 20 years and the first soprano I've owned. I still have my YAS21 and YAS52 alto's from high school, but I played tenor primarily and had a Super Action 80 that I loved. I also played my private lesson teacher's Mk IV alto on occasion.

All that being said, I was very surprised (positively) at the quality of sound from the Kessler Custom. I have played several gigs with it, including one on TV. The horn performed as expected - albeit things weren't perfect. Here's some more detail about what I think of the Kessler Custom Deluxe Soprano:

1. VERY nice sounding horn and very easy to play. Much better jazz than classical horn, IMHO.
2. Differences in mouthpieces, ligatures, and reeds make significant tonal differences (duh). I tend to favor a particular mouthpiece depending on what register I'm primarily in. As with a lot of soprano's, it goes sharp quick when you get high.
3. I've had problems with the low C# key sticking. I originally thought it was the pad or soft spring, but it turns out the screw was filthy when I took it out and cleaning it and oiling it solved the problem.
4. I struggle with the high A and like no other note on the horn. Boy that A likes to screech. I tend to play the A like a clarinet so I can hang on to it.
5. The body of the horn is very nice, but the rest of the mechanics seem a bit flimsy. Of course, I'm used to staring at a Selmer. I'm not trying to be overly critical of the construction here, but it's not a horn I expect to hold up for years and years of significant play time. However, it's pretty much what I expected considering what I paid for it.

All in all, I am completely satisfied with the horn. It is exactly what Dave said it was and what I wanted. However, if you are a die hard Selmer fan (and I am for the Alto and Tenor -- I'm planning on buying a ref 54 alto), and you've got the money, you're going to want to go that way. Then again, if you've got that kind of money, do what I'm going to do when I buy a pro alto and go see Dave in Vegas. I've heard there are a few other things in town to do while you're there, and compared to a ref 54, plane tickets are cheap.

Great playing all!

Kris

[jacobeid]

4. I struggle with the high A and like no other note on the horn. Boy that A likes to screech. I tend to play the A like a clarinet so I can hang on to it.

If the sax only has one trouble note for you (ESPECIALLY soprano) than that's really good. Every sax I've played has a few notes out. The ones that seperate themselves are the ones that have 1-2 out a bit rather than 3 or 4.