mouthpieces frustrate me!

[Lynz456]

So I have an Alto Jazz mouth piece. It's a Meyer... 5 I think. It's about 4 or 5 years old and I haven't played on it much because I used to play Bari in a jazz band, but now I play Alto. Whenever I play high notes it seems to bite back. It doesn't come out very clearly. I was told it was probably the reed, but it can't be EVERY reed I have. It also chirps A LOT. Is that normal? I am considering buying a new mouthpiece, but I don't know if I should. I was also told it could chirp because of the shape on the inside... I have no idea what they meant though. Any suggestions?

[EZ]

It's either a flattish facing curve or poor baffle/tiprail definition or both. Assuming other pieces of similar tip openings are working for you, of course.

[jacobeid]

how about too soft of reeds causing some chirping?

[Phil Barone]

I seriously doubt there's anything wrongwith the piece although coming from bari, it's probably too closed so you may be over blowing. All the mouthpieces I see coming from Babbit are pretty good, not great but good. It's easy to blame the equiptment but try a more open piece like a Meyer 7 with a softer reed and take plenty of mouthpiece in your mouth and try and get the high notes by making subtle adjustments with your throat, not your embochure. I make a piece a lot like a Meyer and have been in the mouthpiece business 25 years and it usually come back to the player. Phil Barone


So I have an Alto Jazz mouth piece. It's a Meyer... 5 I think. It's about 4 or 5 years old and I haven't played on it much because I used to play Bari in a jazz band, but now I play Alto. Whenever I play high notes it seems to bite back. It doesn't come out very clearly. I was told it was probably the reed, but it can't be EVERY reed I have. It also chirps A LOT. Is that normal? I am considering buying a new mouthpiece, but I don't know if I should. I was also told it could chirp because of the shape on the inside... I have no idea what they meant though. Any suggestions?

[Lynz456]

ok thanks for the help. It probably is embochure or something. I'll keep trying to improve it.

[bruce bailey]

Make sure the reed is aligned EXACTLY on the mouthpiece and that the ligature is holding the reed firmly on. Even if the mouthpiece is slightly off, it can always help to mount the setup correctly. Are we talking about the Bari mouthpiece or the Alto Meyer?

[rogerb40uk]

I agree with the advice above, although with MUCH less experience behind me :D
My Lamberson is very intolerant of slightly misaligned reeds and my BG lig doesn't hold it quite firmly enough.
So I am eagerly awaiting a Vandoren Optimum which I've bought from J.Max, in hope that it will grip more firmly :)

[pearcey1024]

take plenty of mouthpiece in your mouth

Phil, you often suggest to take pleanty of mouthpiece into your mouth when playing links on tenor, do you think this is also true for Meyers on alto (or just any piece on any sax...)?

[Lynz456]

It's my Alto Meyer. I took the suggestions and it didn't chirp as much, but it still resists. Thanks again.

[Phil Barone]

Phil, you often suggest to take pleanty of mouthpiece into your mouth when playing links on tenor, do you think this is also true for Meyers on alto (or just any piece on any sax...)?

Well, look at photos of your favorite players. Take as much mouthpiece as possible covering the break in the facing. I was very fortunate to study with Joe Allard, Victor Morosco, and I've watched many great players in my shop including Michael Brecker, Ernie Watts ad infinitum and the all take a lot of mouthpiece. Joe Allard used to say "eat the mouthpiece". At first it's really weirs. It's louder and harsh but in a few days you'll get used to it falling back to the proper place. Using very round numbers, let’s say your facing is an inch long on tenor (3/4 on alto) Take MORE than an inch.

In other words exaggerate the new better habit. I can't remember who told me this but they said, you can't take too much mouthpiece. Joe Allard and Vick Morosco changed my concept in a couple of weeks. In one night of doing this exercise by Vick, I changed my sound. Now I can pretty much play any mouthpiece on tenor and alto. I'm more picky on bari I guess because that's my primary instrument and the stock bari mouthpieces in the store really el stinko. One day I'll write up all the exercises Vick and Joe taught me but for now, try playing scales with just your mouthpiece while you're in your car or when you can't have your horn. Not changing your embouchure but with subtle adjustments with your throat. I don't know if this works for clarinet although I tried to. The angle of the top of the mouthpiece forced me further away from the beginning of the facing curve. I also don't know how this applies to "classical" playing. Phil

[HeavyWeather77]

I agree with Phil. I never remotely enjoyed my sound until I started learning to take more mouthpiece in. I tried to play alto like a clarinet for years; you can imagine the problems that would cause. Playing tenor, for which a good sound concept came easier to me, opened my alto sound up so much that I felt like a completely new player afterwards. I think it's mostly due to having to learn to open up and eat more mouthpiece on the tenor in order to get a sound that doesn't sound completely juvenile.

[Clarinophonist]

I agree with taking in more mouthpiece, very recently i began taking in more mouthpiece on my meyer. Instantly my sound was bigger, brighter(which is what i wanted), and definately less resistive.

It also helped open my throat up, this makes it much easier for me to voice notes on it too.

[MojoBari]

I've been experimenting with it a little. Yeah the sound is bigger. But the articulation gets slower. Not good for section work in a big band or pit orch. But I think this will improve over time. The sound is bigger instantly, but the other adjustments take time.

[Clarinophonist]

When i started putting in more mouthpiece it wasnt really that much more, only like 2-4mm. Im still not sure if it sounds different or it just sounds different to me. But i certainly prefer the response.

[Martinman]

I also don't know how this applies to "classical" playing. Phil


I was lucky enough to be able to drive down to Bloomington (I am hoping to go to school there next year) to have a lesson with Dr. Walsh about a month ago. He had me take in enough mouthpiece so that my bottom lip/teeth were exactly on the spot where the reed touches the mouthpiece for the first time. This was on my Selmer C* for classical. He described it as a "fulcrum".

Hope this makes sense.

[EZ]

The reed vibrates/resonates at different lengths - which is why facings are curved. Certainly it doesn't help to have your bottom lip much further towards the shank than the facing length. Unless you are doing it to set up harmonics. So through the range of the horn, you will find it helps to modify your embouchure slightly.

It's not really something to consciously think about too much - if you spend long enough on the same gear (ahem...) you will find those sweet spots, but if you are attenuating the reed vibration forward of the point it wants to resonate at - you get less than a full response, or you set up other harmonics.

In other words. Take in enough, but more is better has it's limits.

I see so many pieces where the facing length isn't long enough. no matter how much mpc you take in - the low end comes out like hippos fart.

[Razzy]

Meyers can be notorious for a thin uppermost register (D3 and above), when tested against comparable alto mouthpieces. Chirping, however, is not something characteristic of them.