Runyon website redesigned

[Mike Ruhl]

And it looks great! Pictures of all the mouthpieces - even the single-reed bassoon mpc!

www.runyonproducts.com

[kcp]

Woah!! Now that REALLY looks good. I never said it before, I didn't want to upset people, but I felt that the old page design didn't do justice to the product. It's a great move that they did to redesign their website!
Now if only they could fix the link the to French version that would make me real happy 8)

[gyrofrog.com]

I liked the mouthpiece comparison charts they used to have on the website... If those are still there, I couldn't find them. Not a big deal, since they are still available on Charlie A's Gig Dust website.

Other than that, I liked the new design.[/i]

[Mike Ruhl]

The mouthpiece comparison charts are still there. They've broken it out by horn (soprano, alto, tenor, bari) and included a link to it on the page for each.

http://www.runyonproducts.com/soprano.charts.html
http://www.runyonproducts.com/alto.charts.html
http://www.runyonproducts.com/tenor.charts.html
http://www.runyonproducts.com/baritone.charts.html

[Paul Coats]

Speaking of bassoon, I am starting a new thread here.

[T.J]

The facing charts don't look right to me.. It's definitely different from the previous website.

[Paul Coats]

TJ: I will try to get to the bottom of this size thing.

At the factory they measure with "tapered wand" guages, similar to the old Eric Brand gauges, but they are marked for Runyon 3,4,5,6, etc. They have separate wands for alto, tenor, bari, etc.

They had an old comparison chart, had drawn on a grid, for many years. I know I had one of the same charts from them when I was in college.

Now they have a new chart. There are differences mostly in the larger sizes of the tenor and bari sax sizes. The old charts showed up to size 7 as having .004" (0.1 mm) increments between sizes.

However, between size 7 and 8, and for the larger sizes, they old charts showed .008" (0.2 mm) increments.

This resulted in these tenor sizes:

5 = .082" (2.1 mm)
6 = .086" (2.2 mm)
7 = .090" (2.3 mm)
8 = .098" (2.5 mm)
9 = .110" (2.8 mm)
etc

(Bari sax sizes were all .003" larger than the tenor sizes above)

HOWEVER, the new charts show all size increments to be .004". Not only that, they don't convert over to the millimeter sizes well. They were based on the mm sizes as measured by the older Eric Brand tapered wand gauge, which was based on metric. That is, a reading of 210 on the Eric Brand gauge, was 2.10 mm's, or a Runyon #5 tenor.

So, I don't know what is what on this. I will find out.

[Andres]

I'm very curious to find out what the truth is. I'm about to order an alto Custom 7 or 8, and I'm just waiting for the correct chart to come out.

[Paul Coats]

The alto 7 measures (all the ones I have put my dial indicator on) .078"-.079", and the 8's, .083"-.084", as per the older charts, just before the probe of the dial indicator falls off the tip.

Before you order, I would advise that about 50% of players play the alto #7 tip opening (or other mouthpieces about that size), and about 20% each play the 6's and 8's, with fewere playing 5's and 9's. Typical bell curve.

Saxophonists that are mainly tenor players will lean toward the 8's.

Paul

[Andres]

Thanks for checking Paul. I currently play a Meyer 7M, so I was just a little concerned that the Custom 7 would end up being a bit too small.

[Paul Coats]

In the case of the Meyer alto sax sizes vs the Runyon alto sax sizes, they are very close. So a Meyer 7 tip opening is comparable to the tip opening of the Runyon 7. This is not true of the other sax sizes, just the altos.

If you will email me, I will send you the older Runyon chart that Santy had made many years ago. tenorman@teche.net

Also, I am in contact with Donavan at Runyon, and when he returns from vacation he will be getting with Leroy, we will be measuring some gauges. Hopefully, we can get this resolved.

[MojoBari]

At the factory they measure with "tapered wand" guages...

{Paul measures:}...just before the probe of the dial indicator falls off the tip.

Be aware that the tapered wand always measures the tip at the lowest point it finds and wedges against. This is usually the inside of the tip rail. Some long roll-over baffles may measure even smaller.

Dial indicators (like the Winslow fixture) can measure where ever you put them. Same thing with calipers, but it is more difficult to get the very tip. I think most manufacturers measure to the inside of the tip rail.

There will always be some variability due to the various methods used. Just be aware of this. We should strive to present the measurements as well as how there were obtained.

With the charts, we could be looking at manufacturing variation, measurement method variation, measurement skill level variation, and type-setting errors. Its amazing they are usefull at all!

[Paul Coats]

Yes, different measuring methods will yield different results, but still, should be consistent for that one method. Whichever method you use, stick with it, and be aware you may not get someone elses measurements.

This just in from Donavan at Runyon:

"When we look at all of the tip openings tomorrow I'll let you know what the increments are amongst the tip openings 4 &
5 vs 8 & 9 etc. If there is an increase between tip openings etc.

Catch you on the Flip Side
Donovan H."