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Bob Garner
07-16-2003, 03:49 PM
I just bought a Bundy tenor sax on Ebay. Based on the pictures, I thought it was from the 60s. Instead, it seems to be a cheaply made modern horn. The only place "Bundy" appears is on the G# pinky key. Is anyone familiar with this sax? Thanks!

Dan000892
07-16-2003, 03:55 PM
hmm... from what you're saying it's possible that it is an older bundy... they did have BUNDY on the G#... but they also had BUNDY engraved on the bell. It could be a relaquer. Do you have any pictures or a link to the ebay auction?

Bob Garner
07-16-2003, 04:24 PM
Dan,

The pictures are still on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2541878533&category=16234

Thanks.

Dan000892
07-16-2003, 05:32 PM
I find it interesting that there are no pictures of the bell. However it says on the auction that it's "RECENTLY REFINISHED." Therefore, I'd have to assume that means relaquered. Judging by the bell key guards, it's old. I see another Bundy on eBay with a 578k serial number with the same style bell key guard, which makes that Bundy a Post-Selmer USA 1973.

Check your horn's serial number against the charts here http://www.saxworx.com/bundy.htm

And next time you think a horn is dated to a certain time, you should get the serial number from the seller so you can confirm it.

Hurling Frootmig
07-16-2003, 06:45 PM
I think it looks like an early post Buescher buy out horn. You can verify by the serial number. I'm guessing that the serial number will be under 500k but over 405k. If it's prior to 405k then it just means that it was made while Buescher still controled their company.

Dave dix
07-16-2003, 08:10 PM
looks like a selmer bundy, from the early 70's. pity about the dents on the bottom but for under $300 you have a very good inter/student horn for a third of the price of a new crappy taiwanese sax that sound like you put the mouthpiece up the cats a*$e !!!!!!
Enjoy your new purchase they arent a bad horn to play.

Bob Garner
07-17-2003, 01:50 AM
Thanks everyone. Its serial number is in the 638,000 range, so that makes it from 1975 or so. I bought it for outdoor community band type gigs when I don't want to use my good horn.

kd6tjc
01-18-2007, 02:57 AM
Hey Bob how did the saxophone work out for you?
I just bought a 1970 Alto Bundy serial number 578*** she is in nice condition have a look the pictures There small so just put your mouse over them and R click to enlarge them http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-3/1154094/BUNDYSAXOPHONESELMER.jpg
I needed a good vintage back up sax for practice that wouldnt hurt the wallet so much hope she plays nice as she looks.

Later Steve

bruce bailey
01-18-2007, 06:43 AM
The horn mentioned (3.5 years ago!) would not have the name on the bell as they were decals that can be easily removed.

Enviroguy
01-18-2007, 11:21 PM
Hey Bob how did the saxophone work out for you?
I just bought a 1970 Alto Bundy serial number 578*** she is in nice condition have a look the pictures There small so just put your mouse over them and R click to enlarge them http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-3/1154094/BUNDYSAXOPHONESELMER.jpg
I needed a good vintage back up sax for practice that wouldnt hurt the wallet so much hope she plays nice as she looks.

Later Steve


This look a lot like my school horn, a 628K Bundy tenor. These are great cheap horns. If you replace the Selmer-style plastic-resonator pads with good doomed metal resonator pads, the tone really comes alive.

kd6tjc
01-20-2007, 10:38 PM
Hello Enviroguy
You Stated that the Selmer-style plastic-resonator pads can be replaced with good doomed metal resonator pads, the tone really comes alive.
Im gonna look into doing this on my backup alto sax soon as she needs new ones.

Later Steve

Keith Ridenhour
03-04-2007, 09:06 PM
I thought it might make a good back up horn? K
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110096651107

Loprofyler
03-12-2007, 03:17 AM
Well... Since you're discussing Bundys, maybe someone can help me make a decision. I have two altos and thinking about selling one of them. One of them is from the late 60's (#409xxx) with "Bundy" & "H&A Selmer" on the bell. The other is a mid-70's (#607xxx) with the common "Bundy" engraving on the bell. They both sound OK, but I was wondering if one is considered to be better than the other or if they are pretty much the same horn. Any thoughts?

Keith Ridenhour
03-17-2007, 01:35 AM
This horn I got has Bundy on the bell and a pearl octave key which I hate. But the darn thing plays exceptionally well for 115 dollars!!! I'll post an AB with my Selmer Mk 6. K

Keith Ridenhour
03-17-2007, 03:48 AM
Heres a cut of this 115 dollar tenor along side my Mk 6. The keywork is awkward on the Bundy but I like the tone? K
http://kride.net/LinkClick.aspx?link=%2fPortals%2f15%2fGear+Trials%2fbundyvrsselmerMk6.mp3&tabid=332&mid=882

drakesaxprof
03-17-2007, 01:06 PM
Sound is very good on both. I'm guessing that the first example is the Bundy, only because the low-register mechanics sound more awkward to you, whereas you sound totally comfortable on the second. Soundwise, though, it's hard to tell them apart. Nice score for the $


Heres a cut of this 115 dollar tenor along side my Mk 6. The keywork is awkward on the Bundy but I like the tone? K
http://kride.net/LinkClick.aspx?link=%2fPortals%2f15%2fGear+Trials%2fbundyvrsselmerMk6.mp3&tabid=332&mid=882

keithsy
04-26-2008, 04:42 PM
Firstly, thank you to the adm. for resetting my password. It is the last link left of the old me. Enjoy your Bundy. I've owned one since 1973 and I am happy with it. I played my best high school music on it and I am looking forward to playing in public again. Bundys were very reliable and durable and rivaled its parent Selmer and its then, competitors.

geauxsax
08-03-2008, 07:21 PM
Bundy Questions:

I have a little Bundy II Alto from 1984/85 bought new by Mom and Dad for me way back when (sn 905XXX).

Just out of curiosity: What are the differences between the Bundy "I" and Bundy II? Are they totally different horns? If so, what was the 'II based on? I seem to remember someone saying that the Bundy I was basically a Buescher True Tone body tube with updated keywork. Is this true?

Lastly, what's the biggest gripe about the Bundy IIs? They get beat up a lot, but I'd like to hear specifics. Mine was/is super durable and got me though High School in the 80's--I didn't think it was that bad, and nothing really jumped out at me as a terrible flaw. I'm not trying to make it out to be something it isn't, either---just curious.

ABeginner
08-06-2008, 12:44 AM
From what I've gathered (and correct me if I'm wrong), the original Selmer Bundy was Selmer's (some say "cheaper") take on the previous Beuscher model, and the Bundy II is a student horn with a design more similar to (in the student sense) the Mark VI.

I'd also like to second geauxsax's last question. I frequently read posts saying that the Bundy II alto is "junk", that it's "too loud" with "terrible overall sound quality", etc. Several agree that they are the "least common denominator" of even remotely reasonable student saxes, and should be considered only if they are the only affordable option that doesn't come out of China. I've been able to find comments from only two posters on SOTW who prefer the sound of the Bundy II over the YAS-23, and several dozen who go the other way. My understanding is that there was more variability between Bundy II's than between YAS-23s (owing to computerized assembly). The weight and key placement differences aside, is it possible that the emphatic Bundy II haters have just heard a few bad apples? Or that more people prefer the brighter sound of the more modern student pieces? Have too many half-coached, half-interested band students with bad reeds, poorly fitted mouthpieces, and rarely to never serviced saxes created a bad rep? Or are the good apples in Bundy II land so few and far between that most people will never encounter one?

FWIW, I'm happy with mine so far.

iluvsax
09-11-2008, 03:43 AM
Make it three.

I love my Bundy II alto; it was my uncle's from the 80's and I love it. I take as good care as possible with it, being my only horn, and a lot of my money has gone to new mouthpieces and ligatures for it. Really no repairs, save an initial repad. I love the horn, and yes, I do very much prefer the darker sound. It seems more heavyweight than the Yamaha student horns, a fact that I enjoy. Yes, I have heard quite a few "bad apples"; but in almost all cases the kids were careless and dropped, kicked, beat, sat on, thrown, and a variety of other violent nouns that demended instant reposession by the SPS.

And BTW, I hate almost anything that comes from China. Alas, to not by from them, I'd have to be omish. :(

Sire James
01-16-2010, 03:20 AM
i have a Bundy II alto saxophone (selmer company) and i was wondering is that a good instrument to play for a wail or just as a beginner


SAXOPHONE FOR EVER

Mal 2
01-16-2010, 04:22 AM
i have a Bundy II alto saxophone (selmer company) and i was wondering is that a good instrument to play for a wail or just as a beginner

They're really not bad horns. They're just not GREAT horns either. Like a lot of makes, they have a fair amount of variance from one to the next, in addition to the differing amounts of abuse various used horns have seen. Mechanically and ergonomically, the Bundy II is a modern horn and the original Bundy is a vintage horn (being identical to a late Buescher Aristocrat). Which one you prefer is a matter of taste, but more people prefer the modern action.

Make sure it's in good condition and not leaking and it should be more than adequate as a beginner horn.

Enviroguy
01-16-2010, 04:34 AM
Yep,

The Bundy II is a decent horn. Many players have gone all the way through school on one.

And welcome to SOTW!

jmoen3
01-16-2010, 04:41 AM
I played 9 years on a Bundy II alto with a plastic mouthpiece and I didn't have any complaints :)

keithsy
12-08-2010, 09:37 PM
I've owned a Bundy since 1973 and I ain't giving it up for nothing. It is reliable. That was when Selmer was Selmer and Bundy was Bundy. It has a Beuscher body. I blew my best Basie solos on it in HS. Now, there is BundyII. That is another story. Them Bundys from the old days are still kicking.

keithsy
12-08-2010, 09:39 PM
Overhaul it and you got gold in them there hills.
looks like a selmer bundy, from the early 70's. pity about the dents on the bottom but for under $300 you have a very good inter/student horn for a third of the price of a new crappy taiwanese sax that sound like you put the mouthpiece up the cats a*$e !!!!!!
Enjoy your new purchase they arent a bad horn to play.

BlueTrane2028
12-08-2010, 11:09 PM
I own both a Bundy I (made somewhere near 1976), and an early Bundy II (80's) in that copper paint finish.

They play about the same, except the LH pinky cluster feels more modern and I like the way the high E key is curved. In fact, for my Bundy I, I added a cork riser that mimics the curve of the Bundy II's high E key. I use a riser on the palm key D on both saxes. I haven't tried as such, but it looks like all of the keywork will transfer between the two saxes except for the stuff attendant to the LH pinky cluster. It is my opinion after carefully looking at both, to get to the Bundy II from the starting point of the Bundy I, that they more or less just moved the bell keys from the left to right side, and changed the spatulas accordingly. Oh, and the octave key is different in look but not function. That had to be about the easiest "redesign" a company ever had to do to update a product line.

Therefore, this "the II is crap and the I is better" doesn't really work with me. Maybe the later IIs were worse, who knows. Both saxes are great backups, my wife uses the II as her backup and I use the I.

Oh, and my wife used a different II from elementary band up to the start of college. She loved it, but the one she has now had better pads and was a lot cheaper than an overhaul.

Tenor Man
12-08-2010, 11:20 PM
The Bundy II's are not crap; I've played plenty of them to know they are decent student horns. However, the early to mid 60s Bundys can be Killer horns that can sound as rich as a Buescher of the same year. Or go back even further than that--the 1940s and '50s--and Bundys might as well be called Bueschers at that point. The keywork is different, but that's about it.

Sigmund451
12-08-2010, 11:30 PM
Wow, this is a thread that just wont die!

Dagvei
12-09-2010, 03:00 PM
Well, my back-up and outdoor/marching band tenor is an '89 Bundy II and I chose it over a Yamaha YTS-23.... (am I the only one? lol) It sounded better and were incredibly solid, and after a total overhaul it plays nice, although the keywork is not the lightest or fastest. Using both Meyer HR mpc on it and a metal Berg-Larsen.

fusion1
08-09-2011, 03:44 PM
Ok, so I bought a vintage Bundy which has the same sort of engraving as the one Wayne Shorter plays. Serial # is 39xxx which would date it to 1919 which it definitely isn't. Is there a correct serial # ID site for vintage Bundy's out there? I read on trumpet forum where someone had a Bundy bought in late 60s and the serial # was 104k which would make that horn 1923 which it obviously wasn't since it was bought new in the late 60s.

I'd just like to find out what year mine was made.

http://i51.tinypic.com/hu3a03.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/11t36mp.jpg

Shorter's Bundy:

http://i54.tinypic.com/11qk87m.jpg

Henry D
08-09-2011, 03:48 PM
Elkhart stencil, not a Buescher stencil; different serial numbers. Companies were clearly joined at the hip in many regards.

No idea where to find a reliable Elkhart SN listing.

bruce bailey
08-09-2011, 05:05 PM
Being it has left side bell keys, it would be after the mid 1930s. My guess is that the fusion1 horn is in the 1945-55 period.

fusion1
08-09-2011, 05:17 PM
ok any idea of it's worth?

fusion1
08-09-2011, 05:47 PM
I posted this in a Wayne Shorter Bundy thread:

"So who built this Bundy sax if not Buescher? Conn?

I like the horn better than my King Zephyr that was overhauled and repadded 2 months ago. I also find the keywork easier to use than my Zephyr interesting enough. More focus and pop from the Bundy. It just came in before I was heading to rehearsal and I unpacked it there and right out of the case it played better than my Zephyr.

Also has a different vibe than any of my Conn 10Ms or 16Ms. I might go so far and say this is the best tenor I own."

How close would this be to the famed Wayne Shorter Bundy model?

Henry D
08-09-2011, 06:04 PM
ok any idea of it's worth?

Assuming decent pads and acceptably play free keywork... $450 - $700 bucks.

fusion1
08-09-2011, 06:35 PM
That's it? This was sold to me with the caveat that it might be missing springs and or pads and that the pads might be cracking. I paid $400 expecting it to need a total overhaul. It doesn't. This outplays some Bueschers Conns and that King Zephyr I have that were all setup and maintained when I bought them. If this is like a Shorter model I'm thinking a few grand if it's as rare as it seems.

Another SOTW member is selling a Bundy "Special"? made in Germany by Couf for $1200. Looks in worse shape than the one I got and the engraving looks faded at best. Is he priced accurately or would his sax be in the $400-$700 range?

Henry D
08-09-2011, 07:18 PM
I figure it's pretty close- maybe high unless you're willing to wait. No matter how you slice it it's a gussied up Elkhart- pretty generally accepted to be frill-less Bueschers and usually a model or two back from whatever the current Bueschers were when it was made.

The Couf horns have their own following and so the Special might well command a higher price.

I have, as it happens, a Bundy alto which matches yours in engraving, SN range, ETC. Nice playing horn with Roo's and 98% OL. I figure it's a 350-500 dollar horn.

There is frequently little correlation between how any specific horn plays and its
market value based upon brand/model. Play it and be happy or hype it and hawk it-and be prepared to market heavily and wait a while if you're asking four figures.

But one never knows...

fusion1
08-09-2011, 07:24 PM
I'll give you $350 for that alto if it has a full set of Roos. Pics would be great.

Henry D
08-09-2011, 07:49 PM
Thanks- but I have no interest in selling.

Steve Stockham
08-09-2011, 09:21 PM
As with anything, value is in the eye of the beholder! If your Elkhart stenciled Bundy is a fantastic sax for you so much the better! Congrats!!! It's unfortunate but in the marketplace, it's not always about the sound (which is insane but often true!) but about the manufacturer and model! Only then does it become about sound and how it plays! Go figure...... You could have one of the hottest playing saxes around but it doesn't have a reputation.... It's the flip side to the ultra-worship of the Mark VI (Oooooh!!! It's a Mark VI!!! Quick, put it on ebay and ask $5,000 for it!!) It's all about reputation...at least for the majority of sax purchasers. Now, the ones to whom this particular Bundy might appeal will be the ones that would want to actually play the instrument to get a "feel" for it. If they see what you see well, then the value goes back to the eye of the beholder but with a "hands on" experience to give a more complete and proper evaluation. I'd love to here that sax played in person!

fusion1
08-09-2011, 10:31 PM
After reading back through 6 pages on this subforum alone, I'm pretty sure its a 30s or 40s Conn stencil. The same era Chu Conns and New Wonder Conns (Which esentially this Bundy is) are far more valuable than $400-$700 even for a junker with a missing neck and missing keys/pads.

Henry D
08-10-2011, 12:18 AM
Seriously- the Elkhart company was bought out by Buescher in the late twenties. After that Elkhart was to Buescher as Pan American was to Conn. As with the Pan American to Conn set up the Elkharts under Buescher were older models of very good horns lacking some of the top of the line frills (RTH and a simpler LH pinky cluster for Pan AM/ Norton springs and snap in resos for the Elkharts).

The Bundys by the forties were almost all stenciled out by Elkhart (subset of Buescher). Great engraving and fine playing horns- but nobody thought they were top of the line models. Wayne Shorter sounded great on his Bundy, Charlie Parker and Chet Baker played pawn shop horns when their own were hocked, Lester Young had his picture taken holding a Dolnet. All would probably have sounded great on a $99.00 Ebay Chinese special- with or without the white gloves.

In the case of the Bundy tenor- a fine horn identical to the early Aristocrats less the doodads. No reason for Mr. Shorter not to like it.

A perfectly good horn and I hope you're happy with it- lots of playing potential, but it is what it is in terms of investment potential.

Take a look at the bell key guard when you get the horn out- you'll see the characteristic Buescher spear tip turnings at the ends of the brass rods.

Note: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?162963-FS-Buescher-Made-Elkhart-30A-Tenor-Saxophone-New-Pads&highlight=elkhart+bundy+buescher

fusion1
08-10-2011, 12:48 AM
Just going by the link of the Elkhart 31A you posted, I'm not seeing what you are referring to as spear shaped rod ends on the bell keyguard. Help me out here.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Elkhart-30A-Tenor-Saxophone-Buescher-1940s-310XX-/00/$(KGrHqQOKpUE3t01dJi(BOHEmStHtQ~~_3.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Elkhart-30A-Tenor-Saxophone-Buescher-1940s-310XX-/00/$(KGrHqUOKm4E4PccYS4mBOHEnQR5Bw~~_3.JPG

Henry D
08-10-2011, 01:04 AM
It's a 30A, same as yours- just not sporting the fancy engraving job. The tell tale Buescher rod tip is on the central rod of the bell dey guard. Not how the wentral rod has two curved pieces which arch away to join the straight piece. That central rod terminates in a decoratively turned pointy end. Note the same feature in the early Aristocrat tenor here http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&a=2644. Also note that the Buescher model gets a slightly fancier version of the keyguard, a bit more sculpted RH palm touches, and some other keywork additions (half moon rocker on the F# to Bis arm, a two piece side Bb instead of the cup on a long arm, and a three piece low C# set up instead of the one piece) along with the resos and springs..

fusion1
08-10-2011, 01:29 AM
Ok now I see what you're saying. Pretty subtle differences.

I'm not a fan of wire keyguards in general unless they are unique as they generally look cheap. The exception is the moustached shape of the King Zephyrs and Super 20s that had them prior to the brass or nickel plated keyguards. Those look very classy to me.

I was going to say I don't see a monumental leap as far as extra frills from my Aristocrat to the Bundy 30A. BTW the pictured Elkhart above says 31A. My Bundy under the serial # does say 30A so at least I got the answer to that question as to what the 30A designated.

Thanks for all the info as it made my search not in vain today. Actually since I just bought it I'm not even considering selling it (at any price at this time) as it is such a great player. Having said that I may consider putting one of my 10Ms on the chopping block though.

Henry D
08-10-2011, 01:42 AM
I'll be darned- I'd never run across a 31A. Which photo did you get that from- I couldn't track it down and the listing describes it as a 30A? Not at all doubting you but I'm sort of curious-
Henry

PS None of this helps with you original question about dating the things. Elkhart kept their own serial numbers for a while even after the Buescher take over and I've never found a separate list of just those- one always gets referred to the Buescher master list.

fusion1
08-10-2011, 01:53 AM
The link you posted had A Greene's sax which is what I posted which was a 30A. I did a further search on Ebay and therre ius an Elkhart "Built by Buescher" 31A

http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-Buescher-Elkhart-31A-True-Tone-Tenor-Saxophone-/330544152541?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf5f77fdd

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1923-Buescher-Elkhart-31A-True-Tone-Tenor-Saxophone-/00/$(KGrHqYOKiIE13kgypfcBNhPFeHkRg~~_12.JPG

Seems similar to mine with different cosmetic touches and the engraving is different.

Henry D
08-10-2011, 02:25 AM
Well live and lean! Thank you very much.

fortuno
09-13-2011, 06:23 PM
I love Bundy horns. I buy horns here, for sale in Guatemala. I sell to people who play in the big National bands and orchestras. About half of them choose Bundy. Very Few play Yamaha. I have played Bundy horns myself for many years. All of them have worked well. I still have "my" Bundy II and an H&A Selmer, Bundy, with rolled tone holes and other deluxe features. They are great horns. Great big sound and good strong mechanics.
I will confess that at the moment, I'm playing a King. I think the tube is a bit more open. I'm old. I appreciate the easier breathing King.

mpjtone
09-15-2011, 12:52 AM
I've got an appointment this weekend to look at this Bundy/Buescher tenor from the '70s. Seems like a decent deal, assuming the seller is being honest about the amount of wear and condition of the pads. Obviously I'll need to take it to my tech to fix it up, and will also have to buy a hard case too, so I'm adding a few hundred to the price in my head. I've asked for close-ups of the engraving and LH pinky key stack. What do you guys think?

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/msg/2587937719.html

mpjtone
09-15-2011, 02:01 AM
OK, he responded with the pics I asked for. Does this reveal anything to you guys?

http://www.sparkpress.com/pics/bundy-bell.jpg

http://www.sparkpress.com/pics/bundy-pinkystak.jpg

lhoffman
09-15-2011, 03:25 AM
Yes, post-Buescher Bundy. $400 is on the upper end of the ebay/craigslist market for a Bundy tenor of this era, especially w/o the case, but less than what you'd find it for in a shop. It still has blue needle springs and pearl touches, but given that it's a student horn with what looks like student damage (the dents on the bell, side Bb out of whack), check for less obvious damage like neck pulldown or a pushed-in bell. If I can go out on a limb here, the one pad you can see in the second pic looks a little shiny. It's probably hard, and it's probably not the only one. That doesn't mean it's necesarily unplayable, it just probably could be better. These can be very nice horns though, for the price.

A word about the case, you'll find that the bell key guards prevent a good fit in any modern case like an SKB. You'll want to find something built before everyone started using vacuum-formed case liners, or Protecs are generally a little roomier.

mpjtone
09-15-2011, 03:44 AM
Yes, post-Buescher Bundy.

So, not a Buescher and yet not a Bundy II? Would that be the worst of both worlds? I'm a lot less inclined now...

I'm looking for *better* than a student horn, or I might as well get a new Chinese one. Thanks for the diagnosis, and advice about cases, etc.

mpjtone
09-15-2011, 11:37 AM
Yes, post-Buescher Bundy.

Does anyone know when the Bundy (I) stopped being essentially a Buescher Aristocrat? I had naively assumed that the cut-over would have been the advent of the Bundy II, but I suppose it's more complicated than that. If someone can shed some historical light on this, I would greatly appreciate it.

By the same token, what about the Selmer Signet? I've seen them pop up now and then and have read that the "S-brace" models are good ones that are basically Buescher stencils as well.