is that fewer people use Dukoff on tenor?

[lamgigi]

i always hear people use otto link or Morgan or others on tenor.
Is that fewer people consider Dukoff on tenor? and why?

[Honeyboy]

:x Perish the thought!!! First of all, if one is playing music in the style of King Curtis or Junior Walker, a good Dukoff D7 or 8 fills the need perfectly. It has just the right amount of edge, nice lush subtones(as the ad says), and play very well on both new and vintage horns, such as my 180xxx The Martin. I used just this combination with a 2.5 Fibercell on a gig last night and played all night with total confidence- altissimo when I needed it all the way down to baritone type notes on Mustang Sally(low C to low D). I've had this particular Dukoff since 1980 and it has had a little table, side rail work done to it which I performed. Luckily I didn't hurt it. I picked up a used D8 for a backup and it plays very well also. I always seem to come back to the Dukoff when I want a nice, all around mouthpiece. I own 2 Metal Links, a Rovner,a new Brilhart Levelair, a 70's vintage Berg Larsen and a bunch of assorted hard rubber ones. The Dukoff is my favorite of the bunch. It just does what I want.
Now, others will add their opinions, but I suggest you try a bunch to see what you like. You may prefer an M chamber or even a large chamber. I tried a bunch of new ones at a local music store about a year ago and was very impressed with the improvement they have made in quality from about 3 or 4 years ago.

[Bill Mecca]

There are a tone of tenor players using Dukoffs, mainly the D's Andrew Clark, Scott Shetler, Lou Marini (had his plated) and innumerable others.

I have yet to try a D..(one of these days though). I did try an LD a number of years ago, but it was too small and played much like the link I had.

[clem]

When I first started playing saxophone in the late 50's, the mouthpieces of choice were Otto Link, Berg Larsen, and Brilhart (metal). I don't even recall hearing about Dukoffs until later. But now, it seems everyone I know playing R&R or R&B use either a Link or a Dukoff.

I have been playing an L8 for the past couple years and it is a killer. When I bought it I tried it, a D8 and a Link side by side. The D was too edgy and the Link didn't seem very easy blowing by comparison. The L has edge, but a much more spread out unfocused sound but is every bit as loud as the D. The low and middle registers are huge, but I can still subtone easily on the lowest notes. I don't get that foo foo fooey sound so much as almost a rich bari sound like Honeyboy described. (I play a yts62 which is by nature a bit thin sounding, so the L8 with an FL lig compensate beautifully to make a very rich tone.)

I would like to clear up something about Dukoffs, if anyone knows that much about them. What is the difference (if any) between the L chamber and the LD as is now listed? My L has a rollover baffle and a concave chamber that seems like an extension of the bore. Also, the body of the piece is at least 1/2" or so shorter than the other Dukoffs. And is the Hollywood like an L with no baffle? I emailed BD twice and never got an answer.

[clem]

When I first started playing saxophone in the late 50's, the mouthpieces of choice were Otto Link, Berg Larsen, and Brilhart (metal). I don't even recall hearing about Dukoffs until later. But now, it seems everyone I know playing R&R or R&B use either a Link or a Dukoff.

I have been playing an L8 for the past couple years and it is a killer. When I bought it I tried it, a D8, and a Link side by side. The D was too edgy and the Link didn't seem very easy blowing by comparison. The L has edge, but a much more spread out unfocused sound, yet is every bit as loud as the D. The low and middle registers are huge, but I can still subtone easily on the lowest notes. I don't get that foo foo fooey sound so much as almost a rich bari sound like Honeyboy described. (I play a yts62 which is by nature a bit thin sounding, so the L8 with an FL lig compensate beautifully to make a very rich tone.)

I would like to clear up something about Dukoffs, if anyone knows that much about them. What is the difference (if any) between the L chamber and the LD as is now listed? My L has a rollover baffle and a concave chamber that seems like an extension of the bore. Also, the body of the piece is at least 1/2" or so shorter than the other Dukoffs. And is the Hollywood like an L with no baffle? I emailed BD twice and never got an answer.

[clem]

(Sorry about the double post.)

[Subtone Sam]

The thing is that most R&B players in the 50's and 60's didn't use very bright mouthpieces at all. 2 chamber Bergs and Links were probably the most popular.If you take today's popular R&B mpcs,like Dukoff D or Guardala King or Studio,you will find them double as bright as what R&B players used to sound like.Most probable reason for this is the rise of volume levels,the need to compete with the (damned) electronics on the stage.I have a Guardala King mouthpiece that is patterned after the King Curtis sound but its much brighter piece than what Curtis used to use.

[PB]

You are so right...!!!!

[SteveZ]

My main tenor piece is a Dukoff Hard Rubber fluted chamber. I play jazz standards and it works beautifully.

[connman]

How much difference is there really between the D and the M chambers? I tried a D7 and an X7. I didn't find much difference, and the tip opening felt a bit small. Both of these tend to squeak. I play a Runyon Smoothbore 9 most of the time that is just so easy to control. There is something I like in that Dukoff sound if the problems with these pieces could be overcome. Think the M8 might do it?

[A.C.]

I just got a Dukoff Hollywood for my Zephyr Tenor today. I compared it to a Link, and while the Link did have a sweetness - the ligature brought back bad memories from my alto Link, and in general, it sounded thin. The Hollywood didn't sound much different than my vintage Soloist, but it was louder and a bit more responsive. The Soloist can be a little more "pure" sounding.
Does anyone have a favorite Dukoff/reed combination for tenor - for blues/jazz?

[Honeyboy]

Lately I've been using a 2.5 Fibercell on a D7 Tenor. I really like the response and tone. Usually, I use Bari medium or even Bari baritone mediums which give a bigger sound. The Fibecell gives a Junior Walker sound. When miked and eq'd, you can pretty much get the tone you want. Add some delay or reverb and you get a vey good sound for Blues and R&B and swing music.

[jd]

yes the dukoffs are my favs for tenor and alto. the reed that goes with them perfectly are the fibracells. ive been a dukoff user on tenor for 28 years and ive yet to find better pievces for me,i own 1 really old one thats beat and have 2 newer ones that play fantastic. they are inconsistant so you have to play a bunch to find a really great player but once you find one they are great!! yes ive tried the guardalas ,barones lawtons ponzols bergs etc.. you name it ive tried it. even went to the brasswinds twice searching for a better piece. thats 5 hours drive from my house!! and for me the dukoffs work/sound the best . the last one i bought 2 years ago was like new on ebay for 75 bucks and its the best tenor piece ive ever played. used it for 150 gigs over the last 2 years and get nothing but compliments with it on my sound. it can play dark or bright. quiet ballads or sound like a cannon in a r/b/ band . very versatle and easy to play .

[Stencilman]

Ditto JD. I've been playing Dukoff D8's and D9's on SAT for some 30 years as well. I agree that Fibracells are perfect on these. Due to manufacturing inconsistancies all of my Dukoffs have been reworked - a couple professionally, most by myself.

They can be the biggest pain in the rear, but the cat's meow when they are fixed.

[CashSax]

I've had a D 10* for years in the drawer..high short baffle,the chamber is huge and hand finished...never been able to get much from it..My DGSKRB has been the main tenor pc for a yr ..but I have a Lakey prototype metal that is also over the top edge-wise and yet much warmer than the DG.

[frankbiff]

I see that most folkes talk about D's , what about the M, P and Ls ???
Any good??

[Les22]

Does the D chamber have high short baffle with large chamber? I know the baffle is high but is the chamber large (like a level air) or smaller like a Berg?......or am I way off here? I get confused by chamber sizes because it seems whenever someone mentions high baffle they often say small chamber too.
Thus, a Dukoff L has the same chamber as a D but without the high baffle.

Am I correct?
thanks

[CashSax]

well it makes a good paperweight..seriously I don't know beans about chambers either..it's scooped out way into the ramp almost right up to the baffle part..I thought that made it large, :oops: who knows? I know the tip opening IS large.

[MojoBari]

http://www.dukoff.com/dukoff/product.html

[Honeyboy]

I have a large Alto Dukoff (L7) and a D7 tenor. I would say the chamber on both is large. If you sight down the mouthpiece from the part that first goes onto the cork, you see a fully round chamber up to the baffle. In a Berg Larsen 115/0 and a Levelair(Modern) you see kind of a smaller u shaped chamber. You see this kind of chamber in Runyon Quantums and Smoothbores.I believe the large Dukoff chamber gives them their nice full low end response. So, you get the nice edge and power from the short high baffle(on the D7) with the rich lower tones due to the large chamber. What else could you want??? I love my Dukoffs!

[MojoBari]

If you use Theo's terminology, medium chambers are the same diameter as the bore that fits on the cork. Dukoff D and Quantum would be medium. Smoothbore and Jaguar would be small. Links would be large.

But is is not this cut and dry. Long high baffles effect brightness more than the chamber size. Some consider the end of a long baffle as part of the chamber.

I find a Quantum is brighter than a Jaguar. The Jaquar has some of the high baffle removed, but has a smaller chamber to compensate for the added mouthpiece volume. A brilliant design.

See the Saxophone Mouthpiece Heaven site for pics of chamber sizes.

[Les22]

I like the definition of a medium chamber that Mojo gives: same diameter as the bore that fits on the cork. My quantum has this, as do level airs. I noticed that my vintage mps from ca. 1920's horns have a large chamber: bigger than the bore size.
Jaguars with their cut-out baffle and small chamber, to me, are similar to bullet burgs.

[Les22]

http://www.mouthpieceheaven.com/content/chamber-sizes.htm

Thanks Mojo, it's all explained well at mouthpiece heaven.

Except Theo says the Dukoff Super Power chambers are small chambers. Are the D chambers (large) different than Super Power chambers?

[A.C.]

Regarding the earlier reed suggestions: Honeyboy and JD, you were right, the fibracell sounds great on it.
I've been listening to early Dexter Gordon and you can tell he's using a Dukoff by the tone (the picture on the CD helps too!); it's funny how trying out different mouthpieces has helped me hear tonal differences more clearly. For instance, Coltrane's album with Johnny Hartmann sure sounds like a Link, as well as George Coleman's playing.

[clem]

I finally got a response from Bobby Dukoff regarding L, LD and H mouthpieces. He says that the LD is the same piece as the older L. Also, he says both the L and H are large chamber pieces. As I described in my earlier post, the chamber seems to be the same size as the bore, but the sides of the rails are concave too. But I'm still not clear about baffles. My L seems to have a short rollover baffle, but BD implied that neither the H or the L have baffles. The L also has a shorter body than the other styles, as can be seen on the Dukoff website. I could have cleared all this up by simply comparing the pieces, but in Houston we don't have anyone who carries any real stock in mouthpieces now that Mars has closed. In fact, I have a hard time getting my Plasticover reeds. "School band directors rule" is what I'm told.

[Honeyboy]

:shock: I guess I was wwwwwrong. My observation seems to have over looked the concave walls.

[CashSax]

My Dukoff D 10* is stamped "super power chamber" also Miami Florida.

[madav]

well I've got an M10 that I use with LaVoz Med. It plays with good response all over (despite the look of the insides) but loses out a bit by lacking some 'body' in the upper registers. Still I preferred it to my Lawton 9BB/10B which were always difficult lower down with these reeds.

[1saxman]

Clem; the 'L' would have a shorter overall length because the larger chamber takes up more volume, which would make the mpc play flatter than a 'D'. Dukoffs definitely have stood the test of time and remain very popular among all kinds of players. Boots Randolph has played a D9 for many years, and has been one of the greatest 'big tone' players ever. I had an M9 once that seemed to give back some fullness that the 'D' took out, without being 'tubby'. Overall, the Dukoffs seem to produce the greatest volume of any mpcs I've played, including Bergs, Links, Guardalas, Runyons, etc. I've been playing Guardalas for a number of years, but I could go back to Dukoff very easily if I wanted to change. The ONLY big problem with them is also the reason they sound good, and that's the 'Silverite' material, which is essentially lead-free pewter. It's soft. On the other hand, it's easy to work on. I've often wondered how a Dukoff in solid silver would be. His early ones were brass, and they're collector's items. Bottom line, try Dukoffs until you find one that blows, and be very careful with it.

[clem]

Thanks 1saxman, I'm sure you're right about the short body on the Dukoff L being necessary to keep it in tune. Just an additional comment for anyone who is thinking of trying one: the Dukoff ligature won't work on the L. It slides up the mouthpiece and gets loose very quickly. I tried a Rovner light but that covered up a lot of the overtones. But the FM lig works perfectly. It will stay tight (or even loose) without sliding and it brings out the big overtones. This mouthpiece growls without even using my throat with a soft reed, but to get good tones from the palm keys up I have to use at least a medium reed. There's a definite tradeoff there. But the band I work with plays a lot of old R&R like Fats Domino and I get a huge sound in the lower and middle registers. Very easy to blow too.

[Inch]

another question about dukoff tenor piece, does today dukoff product consistant?

[Honeyboy]

I think the quality is improving based on the 5 pieces I tried abouyt a year ago. They all performed well. But, as usual, it is suggested you try more than one just to get the best of the lot.

[Stencilman]

4 of the 5 Dukoffs that I've tried at a local store had some kind of problem: Two of them (both altos) had tips that were shorter on one side than the other. The one tenor piece had uneven rails close to the tip. The soprano piece I tried had a chunk of metal missing from the baffle just behind the tip. This all occured in the last 6 months.

I tried to reach someone at Dukoff to complain about their quality issues but never received a return email or phone call. It's hard to believe that these obvious problems were not caught be simple visual inspection.

[super20dan]

believe it or not if the sop was a m model its suppossed to have the chunk of metal missing from the baffel. some quality control ? i switched to runyons and dont have to worry about quality control or lack of

[Keith Ridenhour]

I checked Steve Cole's website (very good quiet jazz player) and he usies a Duk 7* with an M chamber. Gets a great sound with his Balanced Action selmer. Don't know if he worked on the piece or not. One piece I trialed and had a very hard time sending it back was a Duk L9. Never tried the M chamber but maybe in the future. K

[Saxa]

Vintage Dukoff LD 7* Tenor, engraved "Original larger chamber" Miami, Florida L D 7 *, from the 60's I'm told by Junkdude. He listed it for $280.00. Although I got it in a trade deal, I'm still in question about whether or not its from the 60's. The only thing I see is a brass nickel plated one on Theo's site but that's not it, this one is Silverite. Now all this really doesn't make that much difference because it beats the Otto Links and Bergs I have and tried. I'm just trying to get more facts. Did the LD come along after the L? My original intent was to sell it, as posted and get the Lawton but after reading all the post, I'm keeping it and getting it silver plated.

[Scottysax73]

The truth of the matter is that Dukoff metal is poorly made, the metal is very thin and wears away after about 6 mos.
I love the sound for the 1st six mos,but who can afford to buy a new one all the time.
I wish he used a better metal and brought the price up

[Dr G]

this one is Silverite. ...I'm keeping it and getting it silver plated.

What makes you think that it can be plated? Have you seen anyone that has had success with that?

[clem]

Saxa: I don't know the answer to your question. My L8 is as I described it above. It is silverite, on the top of the shank is "Super Power Chamber", then below that Dukoff in script, then Miami,Florida. The other side of the shank has L8.

I bought the piece from Mars a couple of years ago, and it was under the counter in a box of other mouthpieces. It had no box, ligature or cover. It was a bit tarnished but had no marks on the beak, so I thought it might be old but basically "new". I played and liked it much more than the D8s. I paid $100 for it. I figured it was a few years old, but certainly not from the 60's.

[MojoBari]

Newer Dukoffs appear to be Nickle plated on the exterior only, not the facing or the chamber. Perhaps they sell them both ways.

If they can Nickle plate them, they can be Silver plated too.

[Bill Mecca]

In an old article in Windplayer mag, Lou Marini said his Dukoff was gold plated ( I think it ws gold, I'm sure it was plated.) the metal(lead-free peweter) isn't really thin per se, it's soft.

[lamgigi]

i just buy a Dukoff D7 for my tenor and i find that it is difficult to control.
does anyone use dukoff for tenor too?

[clem]

Try using a softer reed, maybe a 2 1/2 to start. And don't try to control your sound too much. Use a loose embouchure and you should find your Dukoff very easy blowing.

[Dave dix]

I have used a D7 tenor m/p for 25 years and love the sound+power from the dukoffs.I have a s8 for a spare and numerous other m/pieces a berg 115/0 for tenor.I usually use m/h or hard lavoz or r/royal 3 1/2 reeds.Give them a light sand down and away i go.
The berg is more demanding on reeds,some will play some wont and is a bit darker sounding than the dukoff.
For r/b and r/roll you cant beat a good dukoff and it often upsets the guitarist(as i will tomorrow night) which cant be a bad thing
Dave

[lamgigi]

i am now using rico royal 2 1/2 reed on my D7. however, i found that it is difficult to blow stable tone especially when blowing low D.

[Stencilman]

i am now using rico royal 2 1/2 reed on my D7. however, i found that it is difficult to blow stable tone especially when blowing low D.
First, I don't think a Dukoff is a good choice if you haven't been playing long. When I started playing jazz as a kid, someone gave me a Brilhart Level Air that was too much for me to handle and I wasted a lot of time trying to make it work. If I remember correctly, I switched to a middle of the road HR Meyer 8 and developed my sound with it (embouchure, breath support, etc.). Then, my private lesson teacher who was an excellent mouthpiece refacer showed me how adding a moderate baffle could give more projection and brightness. Years later, I started trying more aggressive pieces and ended up adopting the Dukoff as "the" mouthpiece for the next 20 years.

If you know that are conformtable playing mouthpieces with a similar tip opening and baffle as your Dukoff, you should consider having the mouthpiece looked at by a pro. There are quite a few defective Dukoffs running around out there.

[lamgigi]

thanks for advise, Stencilman

is the Meyer 8 a good MPC?

[sattva]

Having just visited the Dukoff website, I see a new X chamber is available.

Anyone tried this?

[lamgigi]

Stencilman

did you try any other metal MPC such as otto link?

you said that u used HR meyer #8 before. Is it a big difference between HR meyer and HR otto link?

[littlewailer]

Hi all,

You guys are giving some great tips. I've been looking for a forum to suit my needs and i think i've found it.

I recently bought a Dukoff P8 and i find its an all around great piece. When i first played on it i was getting a lot of squeeks out of it. The more i played on it the more i got used to it and the squeeks subsideded. But i still get a few every once in a while. in fact i was playing with my band the other night and I was having a little sax duel with 2 of my all time sax heroes (lucky me!) when i got the tiniest of squeeks (blast i thought they were gone). Should i get my piece looked at or should i just accept it?

[EZ]

little wailer -

I've sent you a message. I've really been wanting to try one of these P chamber Dukoffs and would like to help you out!

- Ed

[Dave dix]

Littlewailler just accept it and percevier on the dukoff and you will master it
Dave

[GAS_Wyo]

EZSax,
What is going on with the squeaks? I just received a D8 as my first Dukoff. I'm getting a few squeaks also. When I got this piece I was just blown away by the thin rails! Is it a balance issue or what? :(

[littlewailer]

Sound like a canon,

Thanks very much to ez_sax ed and dave dix for responding so quickly. I really think that it will just be hard work and determination. I was reading further up in the thread and saw that honey boy, jd, and stencilman were raving about the fibracell reads. so i figure i could give it a try. Long story short i played for about 2 hours on the fibracell medium and i wouldnt want anything else. sound like a canon great response and control and my annoying little slap tongue seems to have subsided a bit. and as for the squeeks... i havent had one.... yet.....

Thanks again you guys

[EZ]

Left to right imbalance, too flat a curvature through some part of the facing, poor tip rail definition.

Thin rails can improve the response and make the sound more lively, but they are also more sensitive to the things I list above.

Stiffer reeds and synthetics are generally more forgiving of squeaks, but are a band aid in my opinion, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist. I've had squeakers that totally cooperate with a BARI plastic reed. Fibracells are forgiving, too, but not as much as BARI's.

[GAS_Wyo]

Thanks for the advice...I'll try the Fibracells or BARI's. Otherwise, this is an awesome sounding piece. Maybe, like littlewailer, I need to just get this one under my mustache for a few more hours before I start complaining about it!

Of course, if that doesn't work, I could send some work your way.