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View Full Version : Edgware (Kohlert) Alto



knighttrain
03-02-2003, 12:55 AM
I recently purchased a Boosey & Hawkes Edgware Alto. I understand these were made by Kohlert, and examples are shown under Kohlert Bixley on the saxpics website. The horn needs a lot of work, but it sounds and feels promising. Anyone one out there have one of these or a similar Kohlert Alto. How do you like it? What type of music do you play on it and what mouthpieces are you using? -thanks

Bo Meyer
03-02-2003, 07:12 AM
The Kohlert "Bixley" you can see on saxpics.com belongs to me. I bought it on E-bay, and that really opened my eyes for Kohlert´s. It is soo good that I bought a Kohlert "Bixley" Tenor later. As I mainly play Tenor now. They are very nice saxophones !!

My main Tenor saxophone today is a Buescher "Big-B" but I still play the Kohlerts frequently.

Have it re-build, you will never regret it.

They are under-estimated saxophones in my point of view, but be aware that the brand Kohlert has been sold to some Taiwanese/Chinese producer, so new Kohlerts are not German made. I do not know the quality of these new horns.......... :?:

Good luck with your Kohlert

Bo

Bo Meyer
03-02-2003, 07:34 AM
Sorry forgot about the mouthpieces :oops:

Mouthpieces are an individual matter, what I like is might not be what others like...........and after playing a lot on a certain mouthpiece you will get the same sound........I have tried at least 20 different mouthpieces, but in the end they all sound the same (except a Claude Lakey Jazz piece, due to an extreme small bore)

As a player you might feel more comfortable with a certain mouthpiece, but for those who are hearing you playing, they can hardly hear any difference from one mouthpiece to antoher.......

I like a sweet mellow sound, and are using Conn "Eagle", Arnold Brilhart "Ebolin", 1940´s Otto Link. All those mouthpieces have a small tip opening, so I use rather strong reeds 3 - 3 1/2 - 4, I prefer Vandoren reeds.

The mouthpiece you can see on the pictures on saxpics.com is a white Kohlert mouthpiece, it seems/feels to be a Brilhart blank, engraved with the Kohlert name.

Find a good ligature, there is a very big difference between ligatures. I used to like Rovner, but after trying other metal ligatures, I feel that the Rovners are "deadning" the sound. Rovners makes it easy for a beginner to play, if the embrochure is not fully developed.........

Many might disagree with me, but I am only stating my personal points of view....... :lol:




Bo

knighttrain
03-03-2003, 01:06 AM
Bo, thanks for the good info. I think you are right about Rovners. I've used them before (but not on an Alto). I intend to send the Kohlert in to the shop as soon as I pay for the two currently in for repair (a bari & a C). My current main alto is a 70's Aristocrat, which I play with a metal Berg Larsen 95/2 and 2.5 Javas. I do mainly Rock (some blues), and this combination seems to work well. Gives both presence and projection without honking. I've used this mouthpiece for years without thinking of trying something else, but might break down soon and go for something darker. What got me interested in the Kohlert was its rep for being a great blues horn. A slightly darker/warmer mouthpiece might be more appropriate. Thanks for your encouragement.

spiderjames
03-12-2003, 03:06 AM
I own a boosey and hawkes edgeware alto. it is exactly like a kohlert regent. One of the most in tune saxes I have played. The bueschers I have owned are the only ones that I have had that played this in tune. I don't understand why people are not more into these. I think they are very underated. Lucky for us because you can get them cheap! They were sold as an intermediate horn but I consider them pro quality. I used a rousseau 4r mouthpiece on a recent recording gig. Got a real pure classical kinda sound. Almost sounded like a violin.

Paul Maass
04-24-2003, 05:43 PM
Hi, I bought Spiderjames Boosey & Hawkes from him, YES -the same one,I am sure- and JIM, it is a FOGware, not an EDGEware, but as good as this thing sounds, you probably never got around in front of it to read the engraving.
I have a 54 Kohlert Winnenden model alto, it is entirely different: in that the Winnenden is all brass, has wire guards, Left side bell keys and a bigger bell. I thought it was TOPS, til I got this FOGware , it could use a little tweaking-but as it is I am crazy about it-why the heck did you sell it Jim?
It sings out great on top ,not sweetly bell-like and pretty like my truetone, but very strong and masculine, the bottom notes are full and clear with a solid bark to them, but the best thing is the eveness of tone at the octave changeover area where most saxes suffer and the even tone at the G-A area, and mid and high C. The tone is just about seamless top to bottom. the sax is NOT stuffy,or muffly at all, nor does it thin out anywhere

I will say, I found it very sensitive to mouthpiece changes. and at first I did not like the horn,then I stuck an old white plastic pan american with no baffle on it and i was headed in the right direction.
sadly, the Post Office bent the bell lip. Jim has promised to guide me thru the (probably futile) claim process,
Now I am VERY enthusiastic to get my 54 Winnenden tenor repaired, which FED WREX crunched up and refused to make good on....

stitch
04-28-2003, 10:21 AM
I know I'm on dodgy ground when you've got the sax in front of you Paul, and I've never seen it, but I think EDGEware is more likely. B&H had a factory in Edgware from 1935, and I have an idea they named other ranges after towns as well (I think there was an Oxford model for instance).

MTN
04-28-2003, 01:48 PM
If it is an Edgware, then it is spelled "Edgware", two e's not three, like the Road.
JK or Kohlert?

stitch
04-28-2003, 02:05 PM
You're absolutely right MTN - I got it right when I wrote about the factory location, but just copied the name from previous posts - mea culpa!

Paul Maass
04-28-2003, 08:25 PM
Stitch & MTN: thanks for setting me straight !!
the letters do look like an F connected to the underline (or thusly an "E" with an extension) and the 2nd letter would easily be an O, but it is a bit more square on the left corners , thus a "D"
I have seen so many references to there being 2 models, and having never seen Edge spelled without the 2nd E, I , obviously like many others, assumed it was FOG, MY APOLOGIES TO SPIDERJAMES --
being an ill informed Know-it-all is one of my faults.
Played both this and the Winnenden last night , now I lean back towards the Winnie, but it is a close call, if both were in perfect adjustment , a "winner " may be more obvious. Construction is quite different, but all in all these Kohlerts are both INCREDIBLE values and excellent saxes- I compared them last night to an early Martin stencil (Gretsch-the "Great American") the kohlerts are much bigger bores , and while the Gretsch/Martin pleased me a great deal for 1/2 hour, when I started on the Kohlerts , the Gretsch/Martin was soon forgotten ---the difference between GOOD and GREAT !!!!

Paul Maass
05-10-2003, 04:00 AM
Does anyone know how the Boosey & Hawkes and Kohlert models were ranked, that is the Bixly, Regent, Winnenden and so one-what was the order of quality, ? and the Boosey models , Oxford, EDGware etc ?
any ideas of manufacture eras or dates ?

what about revell, and some of these other "rolled hole" saxes-- like the "academy Artist ", I am awaiting in the mail-- are they Kohlert stencils / Jks ? something entirely different ?

BTW, I grow increasingly more fond of Spiders EDGware every play, if possible -thanks agin James !!!

MTN
05-10-2003, 06:40 PM
respectfully, you are mixing apples with oranges
Kohlert didn't rank models
Bixleys and Winnendens, as marked, were later issues
Late, Kohlert was assembling horns with nickel rods and no tone holes and whatever they had a whole lot of...
stencils are not a fair comparison, just as JK; stencils are not a fair 'model' comparison

singlereed
05-10-2003, 08:34 PM
Someone was asking about B&H naming conventions; they used 'Champion' for their basic student saxophones, I believe these were East German or other Iron curtain country made - maybe Weltklang or Amati? The ones I have seen were rather vulgar. The Edgware name indicated a respectable intermediate level intrument - they also applied this name to mid range clarinets and flutes for example - (though in other woodwind, which they made themselves, the names went: Regent, Edgware, Emperor, Imperial in increasing quality). As far as I know, that was it for Boosey & Hawkes saxes, though they also used the Lafleur name on 'Foreign' made instruments, including saxophones.

David Spiegelthal
05-12-2003, 03:09 PM
To add to 'singlereed's list, B&H also made "The Fogware" and "Stratford" model clarinets, in the intermediate range.
I've restored at least a dozen Boosey & Hawkes clarinets, mostly "The Edgware" models (in both wood and hard-rubber versions), as well as one Stratford, two Imperial 926's (one of which was wood, the other hard rubber) and two Symphony 1010's (the top of the line). They're all nice instruments, although all have some ergonomic and tuning quirks (which are mostly correctable, with a bit of work).

knighttrain
10-09-2003, 05:04 PM
Finally received my overhauled Boosey & Hawkes Edgware Alto back from the shop yesterday. Nice horn. I like the action and love the sound. Even though made in Germany, has that full substantive sound like the older Conns and Bueschers. Definitely a keeper. ps - this one has the rolled tone holes and has been outfitted with Conn-style Reso Pads

michaelbaird
10-11-2003, 12:20 AM
I have 2 Kohlert tenors: a Deluxe which looks like a Bixley. It has nickle silver keys also. It needs an overhaul but will play anyway. I use my dukoff D7. My other tenor has no brand name but looks alot like the 57 tenor. I also have a Kohlert 57 alto which needs an overhaul. They are all heavy duty horns. Just need work. The Dukoffs with a rico 3 1/2 work fine. All of the horns I bought off of e-bay were way cheaper than they are worth to me. I bought them all with the intentions of getting them fixed. They all play in tune and have a great altissimo range in the condition they are in. I have a Kohlert bass clarinet goes to low E which I also got off of e-bay for around $430. I got a little work done on it and it plays great also. The quality and care that went in to making these instruments says alot. I was able to fix the alto by buying a parts horn off of e-bay. The alto plays well in the condition it is in. I have been goofing around with these horns the last couple of days and I seriously need to put some money in them. I can tell from the condtion they are in now, that overhauled, they would exceed my expectations and then some.