SAXRAX

[johnc]

www.saxrax.com repair stands and sax stands. take a look.

[johnc]

PS there is a bari stand available to make a full combination ie soprano alto tenor Bari. Any ideas on what I should call this monster. Maybe The Bigrax (big max) get it?. Sorry but its late in the day over here.

[MonchMan]

Any word on price? Do you get a discount for a full RAX?

[Randall]

Nice design! I especially like having the neck/MP out of the butt range of stage klutzes...
but one question about the U-shaped bell brace....since this hooks and "locks" under the rim of the bell, could it also result in any bending of the bell lip from any pressure that could be applied (accidentally)?
I couldn't tell so well fromthe pix, but is thisbrace well padded, no sharp or metal or hard plastic parts protruding to scratch the horn?
Many thanks for your answers....I am really quite interested in the stands!

[johnc]

There is an additional support bar travelling down the bell spine to take the weight off the bell. The whole thing is padded with an expanded rubber and the whole support is made so that it gives/ springs to compensate for stage resonance. weh hey. :D

[Randall]

Sounds good to me! I sent you guys mail for the prices and a pic that wouldn't load...
I think I'll give it a whirl! 8)

[johnc]

I finally got that pic to load. Hopefully thats it. I also put a few other pics of the british music fair on. THe sax rax price will be loaded on. US prices need to be looked at. I am looking to get one or two main dealers to ship in bulk and then can then split up and package as you will. Sending over large boxes full of air is not economical. If you can stand the shipping costs i will send anywhere in the world. If you cant then you will have to wait until we get the overseas deal going. Hopefully this is not to long. Should have the SAXRAX bari stand photographed this weekend and then its on to the BASS and curved soprano.

[Big Nick]

Still no prices?

[MusicMedic]

I just got one of the SaxRax work stations in the mail about 5 days ago. I'm sold. These are some very well made stands. The saxophone can be vertical or horizontal, it rotates easily. The stand can be used on my bench or 'free standing' on the floor.

Really John, this is a great work stand Bravo!

[MusicMan]

Hey John....has the bari stand been photographed yet? Also, I may have missed it, but is there a curved sop stand as well?

[pfox]

Okay, it's almost two months, can we get even an estimate of prices?

[johnc]

The prices for the US market are still to be agreed as we dont know the cost to get them over yet. We will be shipping a selection over to Paul Coats next week. To this you can add a side arm alto/curve soprano stand, a descreet set list stand, a Pig tail peg straight soprano stand or lock another stand together. The reason for the delay is that we want to be in a position to show and sell not just show. IE when we ship to the dealers we want to support the dealers with products and not have people seeing one in a store and then being told to wait. We are all but there in the Uk. Its going to be more economical to purchase them through a distributor in the US than us shipping them over individually. We have appointed PAul Coats as this distributor. As you are a contributor to this forum you all know how dedicated he is to the saxophone. All I can ask is that you contact Paul or drop me an email and I will answer any questions you have. Thanks again.

[Santee>]

Yep, yesterday I got a Low and High SAXRAX w/a Soprano Peg, Set List Peg, and one of the "180 Joiners" that connect the Low & High stands, making it a 'SaxRack'.

I LOVE them!!! Any photo you see won't really give the impression of strength and stability that these stands have! Kinda like seeing a photo of a Hummer H2 and actually seeing one in person 8)

They fold up to maybe the size of a brief case, maybe just a little bigger (for the low.... the high is maybe 4 inches higher?). If you just play alto or tenor (or curved soprano), go with a single "low"...'cause the high is "high" (very convenient, but could get knocked over if not attached to another SAXRAX). The low is very, very stable on it's own.

I was a little worried about the bell of my 86,xxx Mark VI tenor being bent over time ('cause the bell will bend just by being in it's case, it's that soft...so much copper and zinc in the brass of the 1960 VI's!!!). But seeing I've got an amazing repairman, I put the tenor on the "Low" stand and rocked it around, trying to see if it would slip, tilt forward (like it would fall forward), go sideways, have the bow bump the aluminum stand, etc. - or even worse, bend the bell rim!!! And I left it overnight on the stand. It passed with flying colors!

The coolest thing is the way the Bull-Horn acts as a shock absorber! If I really shake the stand, the sax stays suspended...and will rock just like a car body when going over a big bump in the road.

I'm planning on having a case made just for these stands (doesn't need to be done, but I need an accessory case made anyway, and might as well make it to house these stands too).

So all I gotta say is that they're really designed well. You don't have to worry about the bell getting bent...you kinda just need to see it in person to really understand how this thing works. These are great! :)

Peace,

Aaron ><>

[Paul Coats]

Aaron, so glad you like these stands. We rushed some to Aaron due to his busy schedule.

I wasn't going to announce these until I had sufficient stock to fill orders. Right at the moment I have half a dozen stands on hand, and some accessories.

A full shipment should arrive in a few weeks, and the serious work will begin. I am busy locating shipping boxes (these stands don't fold up into tiny things you put in your pocket) and taking care of other details involved in a new business.

After talking to John some months back, I was very excited to be able to bring in these wonderful stands. They are truly "roadworthy" equipment that will protect our valuable instruments onstage.

Saxrax stands and accessories may be seen at www.saxrax.com

I may be reached through the Saxrax website email at: saxraxus@saxrax.com

[singlereed]

A plea - when you post prices please make it clear what each set up costs and make it clear what you actually need to buy. The original UK site was totally unclear about this - I suggest you attach prices to each illustrated set-up. Also, read all the text and consider it from the interested buyer's point of view! Look like great stands....

[Paul Coats]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/saxstands1_002_copy.JPG

This is a picture of the high stand and low stand connected. These stands fit both alto and tenor saxophones (and yes, C Melody).

The low stand (the blue one on the right) supports a tenor with the bow about 8" off the floor, and suited for a sitting musician. This stand, by itself, is $99.00 USD.

The high stand (the red one on the left) supports a tenor with the bow about 12" (30cm) off the floor. This is perfect for a standing musician. This stand, by itself, is $115.00 USD.

They may be easily connected with the "180 Joiner". This allows quick attachment and teardown with just a knob screw. The 180 Joiner is $27.00 USD.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/Image11.gifhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/Image12.gif

These two stands are shown connected just to show the size difference. Actually, if you play seated you would want two low stands. If you play standing, you would want two high stands. With all of my altos and tenors, II can put the altos and tenors in the same "bullhorn head" without adjustment, with a secure fit.

[Paul Coats]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/saxsarxstands_015_copy.JPGhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/saxstands1_004_copy.JPG

Here are pictures of the Soprano Sax Pigtail Peg. The rubber coated steel spiral securely supports sopranos with any bore size. Not easily seen in the photos, the Soprano Pigtail Peg plugs into a small thing called a Stem Adapter. This is a socket with 8 mm hole and knob setscrew that will allow attachment of just about any peg, whether American 1/4" or metric. Just drop it in and tighten the knob. The Pigtail Peg AND Stem Adapter will be $45.00 USD. The Stem Adapter alone will sell for $22.50.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/Image5.gifhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/Image8.gif

[Paul Coats]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/saxraxoptions_012_copy.JPG

This is the Set List Stand, to hold a play list or extra music folder. The Set List Stand WITH Stem Adapter will be $65.00 USD. Set List Stand alone will be $45.00 USD.

There is a separate alto peg. It is recommended to use it only with a low stand, and only if counter balanced with a soprano or set list stand on the other side. With two stands attached, you may add this without problem. For example, a player might have a tenor sax on one stand, a C melody on the other stand, and his alto on this peg, either on the side or in the middle.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/saxraxoptions_018_copy.JPG

The possible combinations are numerous.

You may contact me regarding Saxrax in the USA at saxraxus@saxrax.com .

The Saxrax Workstations, which are stands to hold saxes securely while repairs are being made, will be handled by Curt@musicmedic.com .

Thank you all for your interest in these truly "roadworthy" professional sax stands.

[dingfelder]

any chance to get better photos and some prices for the repair stand ?

I cant see enough in the photos on the website but im very interested

[Morry]

So, Paul, what would be the total price for alto and tenor stands, a 180 degree coupler, straight soprano pigtail peg, and a curved soprano bull horn peg?

Man, that would be so cool to be able to have my 4 most played horns on stands at once to pick up and diddle with whenever I wanted.

[tomsch]

Very cool 8) Looks like a new set of stands are in my future!!

[Paul Coats]

Morry, thanks for your interest. I think you will really like how the saxes lock into the Bullhorn Head, for a really solid support.

For a "Rax of Saxes" setup as you describe, with two low stands, would be $335.00. With two high stands (which support the saxes about waist high, for standing players), $367.00.

With the modular design, the stands can be separated, and used singly if desired, or arranged in a number of combinations. In addition, you will still have room to add two more Stem Adapters, and add two more pegs.

Also, the Soprano Pigtail, and Alto Peg (which you will be using for curved soprano) could be removed from their adapters and standard clarinet or flute pegs be put in.

One fellow just ordered the setup you inquired about, and will be using the two regular stands for tenor and C melody saxes, with an alto on the alto peg, and straight soprano on the pigtail peg. I suggested to him to put the two pegs on the inside legs, between the two larger saxes.

So many combinations are possible, to suit your needs.

[MusicMedic]

any chance to get better photos and some prices for the repair stand ?
I cant see enough in the photos on the website but im very interested

I have a stand here that I have been using in my shop for a few months now. I wonder what I did without it! Well, I have more on the way and once they get here I will put them on the site and take some better pictures. I will have some pricing too once I get them in.

Thanks for the interest!
Curt Altarac

[max]

I'm a little confused about the stem adapter. Does the soprano "pigtail" fit standard peg threads, or does it only work with the stem adapter as part of a Saxrax system?

I'm happy with the rest of my stand system for the moment, but I sure would like to replace my sop peg (actually a clarient peg with a bunch of athletic tap wrapped around it) with one of the pigtails.

[Morry]

I assume that you've tried some horns with bigger bells, like Keilwerths, in the bull horns?

[johnc]

First point about the pig tail is that it only fits the SAXRAX stem adaptor as there is NO thread at the bottom. On the second point, In developing the bull horn head we tried as many saxes as we could lay our hands on and everyone fitted without fail. The unique thing about the head is that the sax finds its own points of contact so as to fit all heads. It uses three points of contact so no matter what size of bell you have it will fit/secure/lock on these three points. This is probably very confusing but once you see it you will see its simplicity.

[max]

First point about the pig tail is that it only fits the SAXRAX stem adaptor as there is NO thread at the bottom
Just to make sure I'm understanding, the only way to use the pigtail is to get at least one full Saxrax stand? Or can the stem adapter be used with other stands? (I'm guessing not from the picture)

Are there any plans to make a separate base for the pigtail? I really like the design and would love to have one, but I don't really want to replace my entire system.

[Paul Coats]

Max, the Soprano Sax Pigtail will only fit the Saxrax Stem Adapter, sorry.

Morry, I tried the stands with a variety of alto and tenor saxes, and had no problems. The "big bell" saxes will certainly fit. The prongs of the Bullhorn Head may be bent slightly if needed, but I doubt it. From the "big bell saxes I have seen (Cannonball and Keilwerth), I can see no problem. While I don't have them on hand here, I do have closeup photos of both the Keilwerth alto and tenor from a recent trade show.

[Tim Price]

I got my stand this week. AMAZING :mrgreen:

These are the best made stands ever. And they look great.Theres nothing about them that is not 1000% perfect and well done.

If you care about your sax...these are the only way to go.

Theres nothing about them that is NOT absolutly great.

[Santee>]

I've noticed that the soprano stand really does what it's said to do. The more the stand/sax moves around, the better the stand holds the soprano!

I mean it really conforms to the shape of the sax!

I've decided to toss on the stand one of those non-padded accessory pouches that comes with the Berkeley of London cases (or some might use like a cloth dress shoe bag or something). Just to make it do two things...

- release a little easier

and...

- polish the inside bell of my new soprano! :D

Just to show that these stands really, really work! Stands don't get more secure than these!!!

Peace,

Aaron ><>

[Grumps]

These are very sharp looking stands and I might be interested, but I'd be worried about the lack of body support. Wouldn't holding just the bell put undo pressure on the bow joint seams from the weight of the horn? Do these things have any track record?

[pfox]

Grumps, the pictures are hard to make out, but there is a bend in the post that holds the fork, about two inches below the place where the fork and post meet. This bend, also foam padded, supports the horn just below the rim of the bell, about 3-1/2 inches. This gives it, in essence, three points of support, one on each side of the bell, (held by the fork), and the one that is 3-1/2 inches down the bow. If your sax has a bow-to-body brace of some sort, and I think most do, I don't think there is any extra strain on any of the joints. It's simple when you see it, harder to describe. It is easy to put on and take off the stand, though.

[Grumps]

So you have yours already Pfox? I guess I'd have to see one. I'd still worry about my VII tenor. It's a heavy horn and still the support looks to be only in one place.

[Randall]

Paul, how soon before you can send some jpegs of the bari stand? Is a bass stand in the works :twisted: ?

I am wondering about this:
I play all 4 (SATB) saxes in my latin band. Stage space is usually limited, so I want my horns to surround my music stand (2 horns on either side of it). What would you recommend in terms of height, stand vs. peg, and couplers, to minimize space but still allow me to get to the horns relatively easily?
Is there a 90 degree coupler?
I am 6'3".

Thanks as always!

[Randall]

Here's a challenge for the designers:
Come up with a SAXRAX that will handle a straight alto or tenor safely!!!!
I'll buy it if you'll make it! :shock:

[Tim Price]

randall-you know some guy ~did~make a straight alto/tenor stand?
get it thru MUSIC 123....

To me..the SAXRAX..is a breath of fresh air. With the set list attachment and the nice links to add stuff....its a very serious professional product.
Not to mention...the repairmen love it. Like Roberto & Emilio. These guys are very fussy and they like the concept of the stand.

I used my tenor stand on a brunch gig Sunday put it right behind me and
it was taking care of biz'. And- its easy to carry. Very cool!
As I said before...and will say to anyone about these first class, beautiful products...THEY ARE THE BEST.
I tip my hat to the person who made them...that person made my life easier out here in the r&b trenches, jazz joints and concert halls. 8)

[Paul Coats]

Track record... these stands are designed by a player! John Cook of East Coast Wind in the UK is a player, dealer in vintage horns, and imports a number of products from the USA. He has gotten these stands into the hands of pro players in the UK, all with favorable results.

If my SML and Mk VI are safe in this stand, I am sure your Mk VII will be too.

Randall, do you play standing or sitting? If standing, the high stands are for you! The high stand fits both alto and tenor, and supports a tenor such that the bow is about 12" off the floor.

Maybe John can comment on couplers with other angles. I would suggest using the separate alto peg only with stands that are joined, or if counterbalanced with other instruments. You could use a high stand with alto peg on one side, and soprano peg on the other. If you were to join the high stand and bari stands, you would have an absolutely stable Rax of Saxes. You will still have room, with two stands, alto peg, soprano peg, to add two more pegs for clarinet and flute.

[Paul Coats]

I now have a few pictures of the bari sax stand. Email me at saxraxus@saxrax.com and I will send them to you.

It will fit low A and low Bb baris.

[Randall]

Tim,
Thanks for the tip- but I already bought the stand you are talking about. It is not bad at all, but if there were a more sturdy, stage-klutz-defying Saxrax, I would really be interested! :)
Paul, I do play standing up....but without seeing the heights of the horn in the stands (high vs low) in relation to my height and reach, it is a little hard to choose. I understand the high Saxrax has the bow 12 inches off the floor.

Also, is it out of the realm of handiness to use the high Saxrax while sitting?

Nevertheless, you got mail! I really want to get a look at that bari stand. Is it also possible to put a bass in it?

Many thanks as always!

[Grumps]

I thought these stands looked really cool. It's good to know they will definitely hold the horn as I'm very paranoid about my horns on a stand; especially at parties. I had passed this on to a fellow sax player as I thought he might be interested. He also happens to be a professional engineer. His take was as follows:

It seems as though an inordinate amount of stress would be placed on the bow joints...also, without the body resting on the colored part, you have no lateral vector resistance (meaning you could bump it sideways and it may not react kindly). It is very nice from a simplistic point of view however.

As these are new, I think I'm gonna wait to get one until they are better time tested. It's nice that a player designed them, but I'd rather trust an engineer.

[Paul Coats]

Grumps: A blow hard enough to damage the instrument in a Saxrax stand would knock over any other stand, and result inmuch more damage to the sax.

The Saxrax Bullhorn head is quite well padded, and will not harm your sax. But don't take my word for it, Pfox, Tim Price and Aaron Santee all have posted about the stands.

Perhaps your engineer friend should examine an actual saxophone in an actual Saxrax, rather than rely on a verbal description.

[Grumps]

Paul,
His opinion was based upon the photographs and your description that the horn body does not rest upon the stand. Then of course there is his knowledge of the saxophone together with his engineering credentials. Although this stand might hold onto a horn during an earthquake, what we're addressing is a possible design flaw that could cause long term damage to the bow seams by having the weight of the horn work against itself. The best players in the world saying how great the stand is won't change the physical nature of this potdntial problem. Just something to consider while you're still in the early marketing stages. You might want to conduct more long term testing of this product.

[Tim Price]

The Saxrax Bullhorn head is quite well padded, and will not harm your sax. But don't take my word for it, Pfox, Tim Price and Aaron Santee all have posted about the stands..

No kidding Paul- these stands are road sturdy and better than any stand avail. today.
Guys like Emilio-or-Roberto are tops in the sax field and know quality when they see it. They are big fans of this already.
Again, I used it 2x Saturday and once Sunday..and see NO problems at all.
Congratulations SAXRAX on a great product.

[Grumps]

The padding on the bull head isn't the issue Tim. Here's an experiment I posted in a related string that you might want to try to illustrate my true concerns: Grab your horn with both hands around the bell rim as it would be held by this stand. Then hold your horn at the angle and position as it would be held in the stand. You should feel the weight of the horn pull down and away from you; which is not a good thing. Now, since the designer has claimed that the bull horn head is flexible, while holding the horn tightly, flex your wrists up and down and side to side. Not gonna do that, are you? Of course you won't, but this is what this stand is going to do to your horn. A saxophone was not designed for this type of pressure. There is a reason all other stands have additional body support. It's a very good reason.

[Morry]

Grumps has a point. The strong point of the sax is the bow section. That is why you'll find a lower support on most sax stands strive to get as close to the bow as possible. Most stands use the bell for stability, due to its unique geometry, not as a support for the full weight of the horn.

If the saxrax bullhorn is used on a bari, and it has to support the monstrous weight by the bell area alone, I will guarantee that it will bend the bari's bell over time.

Just my $.02.

[Paul Coats]

Morry, the bari stand has a lower support that is not needed for the alto and tenor.

The Saxrax stands has been used by enough people, with enough variety of saxes, long enough to show there are no problems with the design.

[johnc]

Great to see so much interest. Just to put in a few facts. THe BARITONE HAS A BOW SUPPORT. ITS HUGE. Wait to see the pictures. Secondly I understand the opinion of the stress. Although I am a player I am also for my sins a certified Engineer. I left school at 16 and worked for 22 years in engineering. A qualified Apprentice trained toolmaker for 5 yearsI then went to work in the Toolroom> I ended up as Plant superintendant of a major Automative manufacturing plant( I was probably responsible for making some of the parts that are in your car today- ). I am a member of IProd Eng. I have a BA (hons) degree. and really combined both of these to produce a sax stand. I did before I launched the product so many trials it would shake your heads. Basically Paul hit the nail on the head, The forces involved to damage the sax on the Saxrax would be far in excess of blowing any sax off any stand. It really relys on gravity to apply the forces with a bow support (yes there is a BOW support) to limit these forces in a situation of a knock. I think that like any product I would recommend players to try one and if they like it buy it and if they dont then dont. I for one dont want to create false hype. That is not our intension. New products need to be assessed and critiqued. This is the great thing about this forum. I fully support these discussions. No one wants a product that damaged their horn, certainly not US.

[Grumps]

John, you're being a great sport over this and I'm glad you're here answering questions. However, I think in your goal of protecting the horn from blows, you forgot to assess the long term damage from having the horns own weight acting against itself. That is what I am talking about and that is what the engineer that I consulted with considered as well. All you have to do is simply hold the horn in your hands as I've explained and you will feel the tension. Paul has made some very dogmatic assertions, but as the designer, what kind of trials have you put these stands through? Have you conducted a series of leak tests after prolonged use, and if so, how long have these stands been so tested? It's not very encouraging that throughout all these replies to my questions, I am being told over and over again that the horn will remain in the stand when subjected to a blow another stand couldn't take. That is not my point and does not answer my concerns.

[johnc]

I am assuming that you mean the weight of the sax will stress the Bow joint?. In that the bull horn head supports the rim and the down shaft touches and supports the centre of the bow there is no stress applied to the joint itself. The weight of the horn is captured in the same way as a conventional stand and applies the same stresses. I did some trials using a pressure gauge under different points of the horn to assess the stresses on the touching parts this was more to avoid material deformation. I did check the joint but when you see the stand you will see this is not an issue. This gave me the data to design the Head and supports. I tried different curves at different places. What we ended up with is a negligable force at the joint. What I was saying about the blow force is YES theoretically there can be a stress applied to the joint BUT only if it was through an act not commonly found in normal conditions. ie if a player fell onto the stand. But this would be with any stand or any piece of equipment. I would still maintain that if you fell onto the SAXRAX bari stand it would hold up the most drunk of players. Another of my design criteria. :lol:

[Grumps]

I understand John. You picked a contact point below the bell rim where it wouldn't cause a dent. Still, even a negligible stress to the bow joint is going to weaken it over time. When I first saw these stands, I thought the horn rested on the colored strip. Was there any reason you chose not to go with lower support? Would there have been patent problems?

[johnc]

Grumps. We did consider a lower support BUT it really relys on gravity to hold the horn in. An extra support would have given 4 points of contact. ie The weight would have transferred to low and taken the loading off the top of the bull horn head rim. This led in our trials to spin of the sax. This can be demonstrated on our Bari stand that has a bow support. Aaron Santee actually asked for bow support as a custom. i sent him the standard SAXRAX without the bow support and he agres that it doesnt need one because of the design. Lets wait and get a few more opinions. We are shipping a new batch over to the US this week.

[Grumps]

Well, the bull horn head is where the patent is and I can see how you made that the basis of support.

As I said in the other thread, good luck with this product and thanks for answering my questions.

[johnc]

Grumps No problems Please remember I am in the UK. My old lady is banging on the ceiling wondering why I am on the computor. She thinks there is another woman involved, and that S** OTW stands for something else. :lol:

[rlowenote]

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't see much difference to the mentioned weight stress on the bow joint by the weight of the sax since the older stands offer their support above the joint.

If the other support (not the bell support) were mounted below the bell/bow joint, then I could see a different distribution of weight on the joints. Also with a body tube to bell brace, I thought that would also help protect the joints from this type of stress.

What is the tensile strength (probably not the right word) of the solder joints on the sax anyway. At least the ones that were built correctly with proper penetration of solder. What does it take to separate the bow from the bell or main body anyway (besides heat)?

[Phantom 7]

this is all very interesting as I am considering buying a new stand for an additional horn. who did ya'll say manufactured these and where are they made at? who is the US distributor or who can they be purchased from? last but not least ...at what price? is WW/BW going to carry them?

[Morry]

Phantom, I think all those questions are answered previously in this post, and the one under "Misc. Accessories".

[Phantom 7]

went back & read thru all the endorsements, testimonials, etc., didn't tell me exactly who & where as to made, but I got the where to buy & how much. Bit pricey for me, think I'll pass, interesting & unusual stand though. hope ya'll enjoy yours, good luck with em.

[Brian]

I think I have to agree with Rlowenote (unless I am not understanding something about weight distribution or physics). All my stands have a lower support, but it only serves to stabilize the instrument. The support being ABOVE the bell/ bow joint would have no affect on the weight of the sax body bearing on the free floating bow joints ... in both circumstances.

Now, whether or not I Like the idea of the entire sax being supported by the thin metal of the bell rim, is another story. Id have to see one in person.

[Paul Coats]

The Saxrax Stands are made in the U.K. by Saxrax. John Cook, East Coast Winds, is the main man behind Saxrax, designer, manufacturer.

www.saxrax.com

In the U.S.A. I, Paul Coats, Professional Music Accessories, am the sole importer, and can be reached via the contact email on the website at saxraxus@saxrax.com

The support is not just at the rim, the head contacts the rim at two points on the upper edge at 1 oclock and 11 oclock, and the upright part of the head , which is also padded, contacts the front of the bell in the curved area, where the bell tilts forward. The sax is tilted well forward, and the forces on the bell rim are quite moderate, but the design is such that the instrument is very stable, and cannot be knocked sideways or out of the head. The entire instrument is well over the footprint of the stand. When you actually get to see one of these stands, all your questions and doubts will be answered.

These are quite literally rock solid stable. A player may spend $5000 on an instrument, $300-$400 on mouthpiece, $250 on a flight case (or more!), $600-$800 on a wireless mic, and who knows what on other gear. I think the security these stands offer is quite in keeping with the investment in other gear. Check one out at your dealer, or, if you order, and do not like the stand, do not think it is an outstanding product, upon return in salable condition, will refund your money, less shipping cost.

[Grumps]

Very informative Paul. Are these stands sold with a disclaimer for damages, and if so, could you post that for us?

[Brian]

It seems at the going price there should be an insurance policy or something. The materials and/or design does not warrant the price, based on other stands available that are also relatively stable. There must be some addional intrinsic value.

[Santee>]

Still, even a negligible stress to the bow joint is going to weaken it over time.

Grumps, you just need to see it for yourself as does your friend if you're really interested in it's design.

This is why Tim, Paul and myself posted our opinions about these stands here. We've seen 'em and use them and don't want to use anything else. We care about our saxes very much, spend lots of money getting the best pads, cases, everything, because saxophones are very important to us and people know that. I mean, my 86,XXX Mark VI is a VERY fragile saxophone (has a lot of copper in it and will bend very easily) and weighs as much as other tenor saxes...stress is stress. I've had NO problems at all with my saxes since I started using my stands several weeks ago. I'm not worried about my saxes bell or bow getting damaged, and I leave my saxes on the stand just about 24/7 So here's the proof, my Mark VI tenor has been on a SAXRAX low stand for close to 500 hours and there has been NO damage to the bell, NO leaks in the bow, NO problems AT ALL. The stand's design is the best I've ever seen for a sax stand, and I'm standing by it.

I feel very comfortable using them, so does Paul & Tim. If you don't trust us, then you need to take a look at one in person. Steve Goodson now sells them, and I'm sure many more stores will be carrying them soon.

Peace,

Aaron ><>

[Santee>]

...there should be an insurance policy or something..

Hi Brian, seriously, these are sooooooo stable and won't crush your bell or create a leak in the bow. Also, the front leg of the stands can be pushed in and tightened in place if someone wanted the sax to be more 'vertical'. And of course the bullhorn can be bent to adjust the grip and the angle of the saxophone on the stand. But it's designed to do what it does, which is balance the sax a little more forward, keeping the mouthpiece area somewhat out of the way of passers-by (not to hear the wonderful sound of pants scraping against your favorite reed!!!). And the bullhorn's design acts as a shock absorber system...while the strong aluminum stand keeps things stable.

I seriously think enough info has been said about this stand to put any skeptical sax players' mind at ease. Sure, I was a little worried the first minute or two about the bell bending, but it DIDN'T bend. It's a NEW design - some people embrace new things, some people wait 'till it's old before they embrace some things I guess.

This is what I have to say, TRUST those who OWN and USE these stands. They know first hand that these are the real deal...nothing to be afraid about.

I just hope we all can rest easier :P hehe

Take care,

Aaron ><>

[Grumps]

Steve Goodson now sells them
That answers a lot of questions.

Since you have one Aaron, do they come with a damage disclaimer, and if so, can you post it?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/Image2.gif
What worries me here is that the main support appears to be an imaginary line. As I said before, I wouldn't be comfortable grabbing the bell of my saxophone where the bull head support is and flexing it and that's what's gonna happen eventually. The price of one stand alone appears excessive, but what is more troubling is charging $27.00 for a simple piece of hardware to connect two stands. You can buy a reputable, tried and true stand for that much alone.

[Santee>]

Since you have one Aaron, do they come with a damage disclaimer, and if so, can you post it?

You're kidding, right?

Do you think I would be using a saxophone stand that came with a DAMAGE DISCLAIMER???

You know, even reed knives don't come with damage disclaimers.

'Nuff said.

[Hurling Frootmig]

Grumps,

From the picture it looks like everything should be fine given that the balance point seems over the supported area. I would have to spend some quality time with them to be sure but that's my impression.

If you are looking for a nice reasonably priced stand then you should check out the two horn stand that Charlie A is selling. My main stand in my practice room is of a similar design and works much better than the cheap K&M I use at rehersals.

[Grumps]

Well you should check the website Aaron, because there is a damage disclaimer there in regard to bending the bull horn head to fit your horn. I am truly surprised there is no fine print in the manual for this stand, but will take your word for it. I'd be happy to write a disclaimer for consequential damages, but wouldn't take goods in exchange for services.

Hurling,
I did see the stands you mentioned. However, I like my stands a bit closer to the ground. I'm gonna keep searching and until something better comes along, stand pat with what I've got.

[Morry]

Grumps...I have one of the stands shown in the link, and they the most substantial things I've ever seen. Really built like a tank and virtually impossible to knock over without trying.

http://www.daybreakenterprises.com/detail.MEI-GAF-PID.0.htm

http://www.stairwaytokevin.com.au/product.asp?prodid=189450

[Grumps]

Thanks for those links Morry. Those look very intriguing. For over twenty years I've been using a metal, take apart, wingnut fastened doubler stand, but it's rather awkward with only one horn in it. Recently I picked up a K & M single alto/tenor stand at a MARS going out of business sale for only a few bucks, but the bell brace is rather harsh, so I'm definitely still in the market. For my baritone I reworked and refitted a Belmonte and that works great now. I think I might pick up one of those stands you recommend for my tenor. I appreciate it.

[Morry]

Grumps, my local retailer friend will send you one of those tenor stands, and get it to you a lot quicker than from the U.K., if you're interested.

[Santee>]

Well you should check the website Aaron, because there is a damage disclaimer there in regard to bending the bull horn head to fit your horn.

Below in Blue is what's on the website, and it's not a "disclaimer", just instructions to adjust the bullhorn to the size of the sax bell...like the size of a curved soprano to the size of a Keilwerth or Rampone & Cazzani tenor. Big size difference!!! So it's just a helpfull reminder to adjust the bullhorn to fit your sax or damage WILL occur... if you put a curved soprano on the stock bullhorn, it won't fit and will obviously fall all around.

During manufacture, your SAXRAX has been pre-adjusted to fit most saxophones, however the bell of individual makers does vary and as such your SAXRAX may need some adjustment prior to use. If the SAXRAX is not fitted correctly, damage may occur to your instrument.

This stand is much more stable than the K&M stand U got at Mars...I've seen 'em, and there's so much more padding on the SAXRAX stand when comparing the two. In fact, due to the almost plastic-like rubber on the stand's bell area, it requires much more adjustment than a SAXRAX in order to let it fit properly. There's no tipping side-to-side w/the SAXRAX.

So here's what my end comment to all this is, it's the best sax stand money can buy. Just the 180 joiner alone has more metal to it than most sax stands have for the entire stand! (it's SOLID, not ever gonna bend). So for the pros or the ones who paid about $4,000.00 for their dream horn and want the best stand money can buy bar none, I say "You GOTTA get at least ONE of these!!!!". For the occasional gig or for home use (if no cats or dogs run around!), get any other stand. This is the only pro stand on the market. :idea:

To his own each I guess.

Peace,

Aaron ><>

[Grumps]

Daybreak Enterprises has the tenor stand Morry, and they're in Jersey. I was gonna give them a call in the morning. If they don't have it in stock, I'll let you know.

[Paul Coats]

Guys, I should be shipping stands in about a week, including bari sax stands. For you guys on the US East Coast, drop by and take a look at Roberto's Music in New York City, and Rayburn Music in Boston.

[Tim Price]

Paul- the other thing I note with this beautiful stand is...how easy it is
to carry!! I had to walk 4 blocks from a downtown lot...to the club and it was lighter than I thought.Very easy to carry.
I am so glad I have this.
I spoke to Emilio the other day & he thinks the stand is " PERFECT !! "

[Paul Coats]

It has been gratifying to see the comments from people who have actually seen and bought these stands.

John seems to have thought of just about everything a pro needs.

[pfox]

I'm not a pro by any means. and never will be, but I do appreciate good design and a well made product. I'm very happy with my Saxrax, and would recommend them to anyone who wants a quality stand.

[Jack Prybylski]

Just wanted to throw my hat into the ring regarding these stands..... This is an excellent accessory that all saxophonists should consider adding to their setup. The materials, construction, workmanship are all oustanding. The best part of all of this is that THE STAND WORKS!!!!!!!!! The saxophone is held securely with no play, there is more than ample padding around the bell, and the whole thing is just solid as a rock. I've used these stands for various gigs the past two weeks and haven't had any problems what-so-ever. The height of the stand is also ideal for players who stand. I'm in total agreement with the additional statements made by Tim, Paul and Aaron. CHECK THESE STANDS OUT!

Jack

[Paul Coats]

Here are pictures of the new Saxrax Baritone Saxophone Stands:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/baritonesaxrax_005_copy.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/baritonesaxrax_002_copy.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eastcoastwind/saxraxweb/baritonesaxrax_008_copy.JPG

I have already received and sold all of the Saxrax bari sax stands in only two days! But we will get more.

[Paul Coats]

With my son's bari stand, I put my Buescher in it, and pushed on the upper bow in various directions. The stand would begin to slide before tipping, at least on my floor. I blocked it with my foot so that it would tip, but the bari sax remained firmly in the stand. There is no way the bari would fall out, or tip over except by very deliberate act. Yet, it could be easily lifted out of the stand.

John's design of these stands is completely out-of-the-box thinking... and it all works!

I still have a few high stands, as Jack bought above, and plenty of low stands in blue, black, red, and a few in gold, as well as soprano pigtails and other accessories.

We will certainly get more bari stands, and I understand John has a few more interesting surprises for us in the works.

[Tim Price]

Paul~ a word on the bari stand...I used it on a long gig the other day.
The bandstand was tight...and we do a lot of the old organ group Geo Benson/ Ronnie Cuber guitar and bari things. So I wanted to have my bari there.
-But a word on the stand...fuhgeddaboudit! I love it.
-There's nuthin' even close....fuhgeddaboudit! Easy to use.
-The best bari stand I ever had...fuhgeddaboudit!
-Light to carry to....fuhgeddaboudit!

I had the bari right in front of the leslie cabinet aside of the Hammond B3. The stuff was vibrating...and my horn was as safe as it gits.
These stands rock my groove-I'm glad I got them.

[mark_m]

Clearly those who have these stands like them. Not having seen one, I share Grumps' intuitive concern about stress. The bari stand looks more like a typical stand with the lower bell support, making it still harder to understand why the tenor stand hangs the bell so far out on its own.

I do get that the forward tilt is feeding the weight of the horn down through the bell brace, but that picture of the tenor looks to me like a dent in the front of the bell is just waiting to happen. That's just how it looks, to me, what can I say.

It's hard for me to see, looking at the picture of the bari stand, how it is significantly different from my Beechler stand, which is also an extremely sturdy stand and can be set to whatever angle you like.

I do believe these are well-made and stable, and far be it from me to try to truly debate over something I've not seen first-hand when there are so many who have them who are raving about them. But I do have the same gut response as Grumps, and I have learned to exercise caution in approaching new gear, and even in accepting the enthusiasm of those using a new product. All respect to everyone in this thread - I hope these stands are indeed the best stands ever made - I heartily support anyone's efforts to make better sax-related products.

[Morry]

Just in the spirit of full disclosure....I assume no one who has commented on the Saxrax stands on this forum is either a paid endorser or received the stand for free, correct?

Not trying to stir anything up, but I think it's a fair question for a new product so positively reviewed.

[Tim Price]

Just in the spirit of full disclosure....I assume no one who has commented on the Saxrax stands on this forum is either a paid endorser or received the stand for free, correct?
Not trying to stir anything up, but I think it's a fair question for a new product so positively reviewed.

NO!! With all due Morry- I paid for my stands and offered Paul my support. I feel as a pro...standing behind something like this is enough.
There are certain things I do endorse that I feel strong about but DO NOT
get to involved with pushing.Take note I am a Selmer person and rarely say anything via that stuff except when I can add someting positive.
Likewise Alexander reeds- I try to be cool.Look in all those reed threads you won't see to many if any posts by me.
IMHO. I know many others who bought these stands and have had no issues. I've used my tenor stand a lot and this stress thing is just plain silly.My horn ain't bent :!:
Hope this helps~ IF... a horn or some kind of mic system that was really costly yea, I'm sure then I might get an artist discout or something. This is just a great product at a great price.
AND-Something I only need to buy once 8) I can't tell you how many bent up and worn out stands missing hardware I got laying in my garage that cost 60 or 70 bucks...this SAXRAX stand is a blessing.

One more thing :D ...what company would give a player $$$ money for endorsing a sax stand lol :roll: No offence Morry, but how could anyone
get an endorsment check for that ? Now-If my was Brecker and it was on a reed or horn-or on a ligature..maybe??
Its only a sax stand... But I like it :wink:

[Morry]

Fair enough Tim. Just wanted to make sure I had all the straight info before I plopped down my dollars. :-)

[Paul Coats]

If these were just any other stands, I would not have gone to the trouble, and personal expense to bring them into the country. What would be the point? They are simply OUTSTANDING. That is why. And others who have seen them and bought them think the same. I want to thank all the early buyers of Saxrax, who have bought from me product unseen, on my word alone that these are wonderful stands.

Yes, Morry, many of these guys are my friends... but I have LOTS of friends in the saxophone community. And usually you don't have to pay friends to say nice things about you. And you don't keep friends selling them junk. I would not impose on friends asking them to say nice things about a poor product.

As far as the issue of lack of lower bow support on the alto/tenor stand, but having one on the bari stand... let me point out that the bell is in a much different position on a baritone sax, much closer to the top end, than an alto or tenor, and the overall balance of the horn is much different. So, the bari still locks into the head the same way at the top, but requires a lower bow support. The bari stand also has a cross leg on the front, not required on the smaller stands. Adding the forward leg and lower bell support to the smaller stands, which is completely unneccessary would naturally increase costs to very nearly the same as the bari stand. Of course, we want to keep these stands affordable.

[dolphyo]

hey, would it could it adapt to a bass clarinet. would it could it adapt to a child's bassinet? :roll:

[Randall]

I have two baris (read: national treasures!) that I wouldn't dream of putting in any stand I currently own or have seen- But I WILL put them in the SAXRAX.
I too had concerns about the stress on the bell area and having seen detailed photos of these stands, my fears have been done away with.
Many thanks to Paul Coats for his patient and thorough explanations and many pictures.
I'll be making my order soon enough, Paul! Thanks for all your advice and help :P

[Paul Coats]

Randall, and others: The FABULOUS Claire Daly is our newest endorser. She is a multitime choice of the Downbeat Magazine Critics Poll and the hottest bari player around. Read about Ms Daly at:

http://www.clairedalymusic.com/

Her setup is the Saxrax Baritone Sax stand, with an alto peg on one side, and stem adapter with her flute peg on the other.

Claire was saxophonist with the all female big band Diva.

Another new endorser is Arnie Krakowsky from Boston. Arnie hails from such big bands as Glen Miller, Les Elgart, Lionel Hampton, and Artie Shaw. He uses a high stand and low stand for his alto and tenor, and clarinet peg.

[tophat]

I have been home from NAMM over a week now and have somewhat recovered from my near fatal G.A.S. attack! :shock:
Although I seldom post, I am an avid reader of the Forum and having followed this thread from it's inception, felt the need to post on this topic.
One of the highlights of the show was the opportunity to see these stands in person and to meet John Cook, the inventor, a very personable and engaging young Englishman whom I found to be very much interested and receptive to sax players concerns and suggestions.
The SaxRax is very well built, well engineered and a great looking stand......really the best stands I've ever seen.....they are very strong and stable, lightweight, and look great as well! Beautiful welds....annodized colored finishs.... they make a alto/tenor Hi or Low.....with machined adaptors to connect them together, (for those of you who are doublers, when two or more of these stands are connected it would take an earthquake to upset them!) as well as flute, clarinet, alto, and soprano pegs...and a marvelous bari stand.
I own pristine examples of a Couf Superba I bari and a TH&C tenor that I am extremely fussy about. I was so impressed with the purple bari stand displayed that I begged John to sell it to me on the spot. He laughed and said a dealer at the show had already offered to buy every single one, however if I could come back at the close of the show on Sunday, he would be delighted to sell me the bari stand. I accepted his kind offer and purchased an alto peg for it too. It is my understanding a bass stand is on the drawing board as well! ..there is much info here and on their website .....John has also designed a pyramid shaped codura bag that fits in the bottom of the open stand, with velcro tabs around the legs.....it zips open for a place to keep your reeds, back-up piece, carkeys, cell phone...and the like.... inside of that is a nylon bag, with a shoulder strap that will hold the entire folded up stand for transporting......I suggested he make this bag large enough to fit over the entire horn while it was on the stand....so you could leave your horn set up on the stand at home without having to worry about it being covered with dust......there could possibly be stage applications as well...he loved the idea, and is taking it back to England with him. He has thoughtfully placed a silver reflective strip aound the bottom of the pyramid bag as well as one on the nylon stuff sack......that would catch the smallest gleam of stage light.....or car headlights....we discussed the idea of logo-ing the nylon bag....."Keilwerth"....."Selmer".....or "Keep your f+#@in' hands off!"
or "Danger....Poisonous Snake!" :lol:
We should see these items going into production soon. I will be ordering the purple tenor stand and connectors soon and have no reservations about recommending these stands for anyone who is looking for the utmost protection for their treasured instruments. They are well thought out, ingeniously designed, superbly crafted and should provide a lifetime of service. They truly have no equal. "Well done and Good on ye' John and kudos to Paul Coats for bringing this fine English craftsman to the attention of all us "Yanks."

[OnyxSax]

I had an opportunity to meet Grumps in person at our Maryland Get Together. We talked about the SaxRax where he demonstrated his point in person. I do have to admit, when demonstrated in person, his argument appears to have merit. Grumps and I differ on how much stress and how long it would take to do any kind damage the bow, but there clearly does appear to be more stress placed on the bow of the horn when compared to a more conventional stand design.

I have a bicycle repair stand that looks extremely similar to the SaxRax, so I can pretty much guess the SaxRax is an extremely stable stand from its ability to resist being tipped over. However, wouldn't there be a way to create a fold-out support at the bell brace end which would alleviate any kind of stress issues and maintain the portability of the stand? With the addition of the additional contact point, I think you truly would have the perfect and nearly invincible stand.

[Paul Coats]

Onyx... did either you or Grumps look at an actual Saxrax stand with an actual saxophone resting in it?

If so, you would quickly see that there is just no need for a lower bell support. The instrument is not held only by the rim of the bell. The weight of the sax is supported by the upright just under the U, very near the center of gravity of the instrument. There is just enough rearward pull to snug the bell into the U shaped part. The forces are quite moderate.

With other stands, the sax merely rests on the cup shaped part at the top, and is free to lay over to either side and fall off. This cannot happen with the Saxrax stand. Such a fall would certainly do considerable damage to the instrument.

I have to doubt Grumps has ever seen a Saxrax Stand in person, or he would not continue to make such unfounded statements.

[OnyxSax]

Paul, I've only followed this thread closely and seen the pictures of the SaxRax. So to answer your question, no, I have not actually seen one in person.

To be fair, I will withhold any further comments or judgments on the SaxRax until get I see one for myself. The question is, how can I do so? Are there any dealers in the Maryland area who carry them? Would you consider making a presentation for the SaxRax at one of our upcoming Get Togethers? I believe that you are a located nearby in PA if my memory servers me correct.

[mark_m]

In my read, I think Grumps has for the most part simply been expressing his concerns, and not making unfounded statements.

Concerns can be considered founded because he probably has some horns of which he's very fond. Kind of like I don't let anyone else carry my horns for me, regardless of how capable they might be - I'm just not going to take any chances if I can help it.

Some people will need to actually see one of these in person before deciding whether they are comfortable with it. That's reasonable enough for me.

Grumps - you're not secretly from Missouri are you?
:)

Anyhow, dent removal's not all that expensive, is it?

JOKING...

[Paul Coats]

Actually, I am in Louisiana.

Saxrax products may be seen at Roberto's in NYC and Rayburn's.